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Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
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TexanFan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 03:24 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 02:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  The Big Sky RPI is 18 and the WAC is 27 for men's basketball. All the other sports don't matter because they don't make money.

That is looking at the 2019-2020 season. The NCAA now uses Net Ranking, and the ranking for 2019-2020 was BSC 18, WAC 25. Let’s look at prior seasons:

2018-2019 - WAC 16, BSC 27 (Net)
2017-2018 - WAC 15, BSC 17 (RPI)
2016-2017 - WAC 17, BSC 28 (RPI)
2015-2016 - WAC 26, BSC 28 (RPI)

The WAC historically has been the better basketball conference. WAC attendance is also better. Both are one bid conferences, but the WAC has more upside.

Just for fun, where does the Southland fall with their ranking?
08-15-2020 08:34 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UIW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 12:44 PM by SoCalBobcat78.)
08-15-2020 10:16 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 08:34 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:24 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 02:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  The Big Sky RPI is 18 and the WAC is 27 for men's basketball. All the other sports don't matter because they don't make money.

That is looking at the 2019-2020 season. The NCAA now uses Net Ranking, and the ranking for 2019-2020 was BSC 18, WAC 25. Let’s look at prior seasons:

2018-2019 - WAC 16, BSC 27 (Net)
2017-2018 - WAC 15, BSC 17 (RPI)
2016-2017 - WAC 17, BSC 28 (RPI)
2015-2016 - WAC 26, BSC 28 (RPI)

The WAC historically has been the better basketball conference. WAC attendance is also better. Both are one bid conferences, but the WAC has more upside.

Just for fun, where does the Southland fall with their ranking?

The Southland has ranked:
2020 - #30 (Net)
2019 - #29 (Net)
2018 - #29 (RPI)
2017 - #26 (RPI)
2016 - #30 (RPI)
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2020 10:26 PM by SoCalBobcat78.)
08-15-2020 10:22 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 04:20 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Big Sky and WAC both get 1 autobid to the tournament. RPI and NET rankings are irrelevant when they both achieve the same thing.

Not all one bid conferences are created equal. CUSA, the Missouri Valley, the Sun Belt, and the Horizon league are all considered typical one bid conferences but they all have a greater possibility of getting a second team in the NCAA tournament and also they get more national exposure than the Big Sky (or even the WAC). The Big Sky is a consistent one bid only conference but I contend that their are currently multiple programs in the WAC that could turn the conference into a multi bid conference (on occasion) in the future if left untouched by conference realignment and allowed to grow as a league. NMSU remains very strong. And, it's only a matter of time before GCU builds a real strong basketball program. Also, there is a real promise for growth at Cal Baptist. I also have high hopes for Dixie State and Tarleton State but the need to get a few D1 seasons under their belts first before we can see what direction they will take the conference. Basketball wise, the WAC has more potential the the Big Sky. The WAC resides mostly in bigger cities and in more talent rich States.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 12:43 AM by NMSUPistolPete.)
08-16-2020 12:36 AM
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TexanFan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

So what about the possibility of some Big Sky schools coming to the WAC? Weber State, Southern Utah and Northern Arizona fit the WAC footprint.

Sam Houston and SFA might be better fits from the Southland.

Long term, if the WAC was to go FBS, BYU might be a possibility.
08-16-2020 09:39 AM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 09:39 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

So what about the possibility of some Big Sky schools coming to the WAC? Weber State, Southern Utah and Northern Arizona fit the WAC footprint.

Sam Houston and SFA might be better fits from the Southland.

Long term, if the WAC was to go FBS, BYU might be a possibility.

BYU would never join the WAC in football. They left MWC because they didn't like the TV package negotiated by the conference. BYU wanted the flexibility to negotiate its own national TV deal; much like Notre Dame. And, the ability produce its own TV games locally without it effecting the conference's TV deal. The only football conference BYU would be interested in joining is a P5 conference. And, that is to keep pace with the University of Utah.

The WAC might be better off just trying to form an FCS conference. They might be able to poach a few of the less desirable football programs from the Big Sky and maybe the Southland; with most football schools more likely coming from the D2 Lone Star Conference. Unless the WAC is viewed as football launching off point by the best programs from the Big Sky, the Southland, and the Missouri Valley Football Conference, I doubt FBS level football is in the cards for the WAC. NMSU will remain an FBS independent until it can find a home in either the MWC, CUSA, or the SBC; or some hybrid conference formed through realignment.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 10:38 AM by NMSUPistolPete.)
08-16-2020 10:06 AM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

After talking this topic to death in another thread, and looking at all possible scenarios, I was left with only one conclusion: the answer to the WAC's football conundrum lies within three conferences: Big Sky, Lone Star, and Southland. No need for UTRGV to startup football.

BSC needs to shed a school, not add, and USU is right down the road from Dixie. Just sayin.

Lone Star has 3-5 solid D2 moveup candidates that are getting a little too big for their britches in the LSC. WTAMU, Commerce, Angelo, etc., etc. Renewed rivals and regional games with Tarleton. Check.

The SLC has a Louisiana problem. The Texas schools might be interested in change. Lets say we get two: ACU and UIW fit in the geographical footprint and have the cash to do whatever they want. They also might be interested in joining other privates like SU, CBU and GCU. Two is a conservative number here.

Add it all up, and you can get to 8 teams without much effort, which is enough to get started. Add a couple more in a few years, and you could build a solid 10 or 12 team, East & West division WAC FCS conference.

A few successful years after that, WAC cashes in its "golden ticket" and goes FBS, and NMSU comes into the fold.

This is the upside the WAC offers schools that the SLC and BSC cannot. It will be interesting to see what Hurd can put together.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 11:13 AM by Itinerant Texan.)
08-16-2020 10:53 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 10:06 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 09:39 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

So what about the possibility of some Big Sky schools coming to the WAC? Weber State, Southern Utah and Northern Arizona fit the WAC footprint.

Sam Houston and SFA might be better fits from the Southland.

Long term, if the WAC was to go FBS, BYU might be a possibility.

BYU would never join the WAC in football. They left MWC because they didn't like the TV package negotiated by the conference. BYU wanted the flexibility to negotiate its own national TV deal; much like Notre Dame. And, the ability produce its own TV games locally without it effecting the conference's TV deal. The only football conference BYU would be interested in joining is a P5 conference. And, that is to keep pace with the University of Utah.

The WAC might be better off just trying to form an FCS conference. They might be able to poach a few of the less desirable football programs from the Big Sky and maybe the Southland; with most football schools more likely coming from the D2 Lone Star Conference. Unless the WAC is viewed as football launching off point by the best programs from the Big Sky, the Southland, and the Missouri Valley Football Conference, I doubt FBS level football is in the cards for the WAC. NMSU will remain an FBS independent until it can find a home in either the MWC, CUSA, or the SBC; or some hybrid conference formed through realignment.

BYU also didn't want to play games on Sunday, hence joining the WCC.
08-16-2020 12:24 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 10:53 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  After talking this topic to death in another thread, and looking at all possible scenarios, I was left with only one conclusion: the answer to the WAC's football conundrum lies within three conferences: Big Sky, Lone Star, and Southland. No need for UTRGV to startup football.

BSC needs to shed a school, not add, and USU is right down the road from Dixie. Just sayin.

Lone Star has 3-5 solid D2 moveup candidates that are getting a little too big for their britches in the LSC. WTAMU, Commerce, Angelo, etc., etc. Renewed rivals and regional games with Tarleton. Check.

The SLC has a Louisiana problem. The Texas schools might be interested in change. Lets say we get two: ACU and UIW fit in the geographical footprint and have the cash to do whatever they want. They also might be interested in joining other privates like SU, CBU and GCU. Two is a conservative number here.

Add it all up, and you can get to 8 teams without much effort, which is enough to get started. Add a couple more in a few years, and you could build a solid 10 or 12 team, East & West division WAC FCS conference.

A few successful years after that, WAC cashes in its "golden ticket" and goes FBS, and NMSU comes into the fold.

This is the upside the WAC offers schools that the SLC and BSC cannot. It will be interesting to see what Hurd can put together.

Some good points. ACU and UIW would be good targets. With Tarleton, Dixie State, UC-Davis and Cal Poly, the WAC hits the six team minimum for an FCS conference, which is the minimum for automatic qualification into the FCS Playoffs. If UTRGV and San Diego were interested, that gets the conference to eight. If they are not, it would not be difficult to find a couple of D2 schools to join.

I think a WAC FCS conference is a strong possibility. A WAC FBS conference is probably a pipe dream, put sometimes you have got to dream the impossible dream.
08-16-2020 01:15 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 09:39 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

So what about the possibility of some Big Sky schools coming to the WAC? Weber State, Southern Utah and Northern Arizona fit the WAC footprint.

Sam Houston and SFA might be better fits from the Southland.

Long term, if the WAC was to go FBS, BYU might be a possibility.

Get this through your brain. Those BSC schools you mentioned are not going to leave the Big Sky football conference and the Big Sky will not let them be football only to play their Olympic sports in the WAC. Not happening ever.
08-16-2020 01:54 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 12:36 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 04:20 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Big Sky and WAC both get 1 autobid to the tournament. RPI and NET rankings are irrelevant when they both achieve the same thing.

Not all one bid conferences are created equal. CUSA, the Missouri Valley, the Sun Belt, and the Horizon league are all considered typical one bid conferences but they all have a greater possibility of getting a second team in the NCAA tournament and also they get more national exposure than the Big Sky (or even the WAC). The Big Sky is a consistent one bid only conference but I contend that their are currently multiple programs in the WAC that could turn the conference into a multi bid conference (on occasion) in the future if left untouched by conference realignment and allowed to grow as a league. NMSU remains very strong. And, it's only a matter of time before GCU builds a real strong basketball program. Also, there is a real promise for growth at Cal Baptist. I also have high hopes for Dixie State and Tarleton State but the need to get a few D1 seasons under their belts first before we can see what direction they will take the conference. Basketball wise, the WAC has more potential the the Big Sky. The WAC resides mostly in bigger cities and in more talent rich States.

When was the last time CUSA, the Sun Belt, and Horizon leagues got a 2nd team in?

Those are generally stronger leagues and their seeds are better, but does it really matter? 1 bid is 1 bid. More times than not, those conferences are sending 1 team like the WAC, Big Sky, and Southland.

The WAC is a long way from getting a 2nd team in there. A school would have to practically go undefeated and lose in the championship game, and have a weak bubble.
08-16-2020 01:58 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 01:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 10:53 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  After talking this topic to death in another thread, and looking at all possible scenarios, I was left with only one conclusion: the answer to the WAC's football conundrum lies within three conferences: Big Sky, Lone Star, and Southland. No need for UTRGV to startup football.

BSC needs to shed a school, not add, and USU is right down the road from Dixie. Just sayin.

Lone Star has 3-5 solid D2 moveup candidates that are getting a little too big for their britches in the LSC. WTAMU, Commerce, Angelo, etc., etc. Renewed rivals and regional games with Tarleton. Check.

The SLC has a Louisiana problem. The Texas schools might be interested in change. Lets say we get two: ACU and UIW fit in the geographical footprint and have the cash to do whatever they want. They also might be interested in joining other privates like SU, CBU and GCU. Two is a conservative number here.

Add it all up, and you can get to 8 teams without much effort, which is enough to get started. Add a couple more in a few years, and you could build a solid 10 or 12 team, East & West division WAC FCS conference.

A few successful years after that, WAC cashes in its "golden ticket" and goes FBS, and NMSU comes into the fold.

This is the upside the WAC offers schools that the SLC and BSC cannot. It will be interesting to see what Hurd can put together.

Some good points. ACU and UIW would be good targets. With Tarleton, Dixie State, UC-Davis and Cal Poly, the WAC hits the six team minimum for an FCS conference, which is the minimum for automatic qualification into the FCS Playoffs. If UTRGV and San Diego were interested, that gets the conference to eight. If they are not, it would not be difficult to find a couple of D2 schools to join.

I think a WAC FCS conference is a strong possibility. A WAC FBS conference is probably a pipe dream, put sometimes you have got to dream the impossible dream.

I don't see the public Cali schools playing in Texas. Is there still a ban in place?

If thats the case, check this out:

WAC West
Dixie
USU
NAZ

WAC East
Tarleton
ACU
UIW

This would be a very nice regional startup FCS conference to build upon. Travel-friendly and rivalry-inducing.

Tarleton-ACU rivalry already runs deep, and both have history with UIW in the LSC.

Dixie, NAZ and USU would be natural regional rivals.

Every one of these schools would bring value as full WAC members, across the board, in all sports.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 02:17 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
08-16-2020 02:02 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
Why would NAU and SUU, not USU leave the Big Sky to play recent Division 2 move ups?
08-16-2020 02:18 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 09:39 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UAW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

So what about the possibility of some Big Sky schools coming to the WAC? Weber State, Southern Utah and Northern Arizona fit the WAC footprint.

Sam Houston and SFA might be better fits from the Southland.

Long term, if the WAC was to go FBS, BYU might be a possibility.

Yes they do. Better than the BSC.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2020 02:45 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
08-16-2020 02:41 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 02:02 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 01:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 10:53 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  After talking this topic to death in another thread, and looking at all possible scenarios, I was left with only one conclusion: the answer to the WAC's football conundrum lies within three conferences: Big Sky, Lone Star, and Southland. No need for UTRGV to startup football.

BSC needs to shed a school, not add, and USU is right down the road from Dixie. Just sayin.

Lone Star has 3-5 solid D2 moveup candidates that are getting a little too big for their britches in the LSC. WTAMU, Commerce, Angelo, etc., etc. Renewed rivals and regional games with Tarleton. Check.

The SLC has a Louisiana problem. The Texas schools might be interested in change. Lets say we get two: ACU and UIW fit in the geographical footprint and have the cash to do whatever they want. They also might be interested in joining other privates like SU, CBU and GCU. Two is a conservative number here.

Add it all up, and you can get to 8 teams without much effort, which is enough to get started. Add a couple more in a few years, and you could build a solid 10 or 12 team, East & West division WAC FCS conference.

A few successful years after that, WAC cashes in its "golden ticket" and goes FBS, and NMSU comes into the fold.

This is the upside the WAC offers schools that the SLC and BSC cannot. It will be interesting to see what Hurd can put together.

Some good points. ACU and UIW would be good targets. With Tarleton, Dixie State, UC-Davis and Cal Poly, the WAC hits the six team minimum for an FCS conference, which is the minimum for automatic qualification into the FCS Playoffs. If UTRGV and San Diego were interested, that gets the conference to eight. If they are not, it would not be difficult to find a couple of D2 schools to join.

I think a WAC FCS conference is a strong possibility. A WAC FBS conference is probably a pipe dream, put sometimes you have got to dream the impossible dream.

I don't see the public Cali schools playing in Texas. Is there still a ban in place?

It is still a law but it will likely disappear after the election. It almost went away in 2018, but it was decided to wait until after the election. Besides being a dumb law, schools can work around it as long as they do not spend public money to play in Texas. This would only be for football. UCD and Cal Poly are not leaving the Big West Conference. This would put the Big Sky at 11 all-sports members and I don't see any of them leaving the BSC.
08-16-2020 03:03 PM
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Trod0 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 02:02 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  I don't see the public Cali schools playing in Texas. Is there still a ban in place?

If thats the case, check this out:

WAC West
Dixie
USU
NAZ

WAC East
Tarleton
ACU
UIW

This would be a very nice regional startup FCS conference to build upon. Travel-friendly and rivalry-inducing.

Tarleton-ACU rivalry already runs deep, and both have history with UIW in the LSC.

Dixie, NAZ and USU would be natural regional rivals.

Every one of these schools would bring value as full WAC members, across the board, in all sports.

I don’t like getting into realignment convos but this makes the most sense. This thing is would these schools jump onboard with the WAC. If so this would put the WAC at 13. It’ll be hard adding football schools without bloating the WAC since so many current schools don’t play football. If the WAC were to add football, it’ll definitely be tricky without over flooding the conference.
08-16-2020 03:44 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 03:03 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 02:02 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 01:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 10:53 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  After talking this topic to death in another thread, and looking at all possible scenarios, I was left with only one conclusion: the answer to the WAC's football conundrum lies within three conferences: Big Sky, Lone Star, and Southland. No need for UTRGV to startup football.

BSC needs to shed a school, not add, and USU is right down the road from Dixie. Just sayin.

Lone Star has 3-5 solid D2 moveup candidates that are getting a little too big for their britches in the LSC. WTAMU, Commerce, Angelo, etc., etc. Renewed rivals and regional games with Tarleton. Check.

The SLC has a Louisiana problem. The Texas schools might be interested in change. Lets say we get two: ACU and UIW fit in the geographical footprint and have the cash to do whatever they want. They also might be interested in joining other privates like SU, CBU and GCU. Two is a conservative number here.

Add it all up, and you can get to 8 teams without much effort, which is enough to get started. Add a couple more in a few years, and you could build a solid 10 or 12 team, East & West division WAC FCS conference.

A few successful years after that, WAC cashes in its "golden ticket" and goes FBS, and NMSU comes into the fold.

This is the upside the WAC offers schools that the SLC and BSC cannot. It will be interesting to see what Hurd can put together.

Some good points. ACU and UIW would be good targets. With Tarleton, Dixie State, UC-Davis and Cal Poly, the WAC hits the six team minimum for an FCS conference, which is the minimum for automatic qualification into the FCS Playoffs. If UTRGV and San Diego were interested, that gets the conference to eight. If they are not, it would not be difficult to find a couple of D2 schools to join.

I think a WAC FCS conference is a strong possibility. A WAC FBS conference is probably a pipe dream, put sometimes you have got to dream the impossible dream.

I don't see the public Cali schools playing in Texas. Is there still a ban in place?

It is still a law but it will likely disappear after the election. It almost went away in 2018, but it was decided to wait until after the election. Besides being a dumb law, schools can work around it as long as they do not spend public money to play in Texas. This would only be for football. UCD and Cal Poly are not leaving the Big West Conference. This would put the Big Sky at 11 all-sports members and I don't see any of them leaving the BSC.

Seems like the BSC would want another full-member FCS conference out West to schedule games with. A 13-14 team football conference is ridiculous.
08-16-2020 03:58 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-16-2020 03:44 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(08-16-2020 02:02 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  I don't see the public Cali schools playing in Texas. Is there still a ban in place?

If thats the case, check this out:

WAC West
Dixie
USU
NAZ

WAC East
Tarleton
ACU
UIW

This would be a very nice regional startup FCS conference to build upon. Travel-friendly and rivalry-inducing.

Tarleton-ACU rivalry already runs deep, and both have history with UIW in the LSC.

Dixie, NAZ and USU would be natural regional rivals.

Every one of these schools would bring value as full WAC members, across the board, in all sports.

I don’t like getting into realignment convos but this makes the most sense. This thing is would these schools jump onboard with the WAC. If so this would put the WAC at 13. It’ll be hard adding football schools without bloating the WAC since so many current schools don’t play football. If the WAC were to add football, it’ll definitely be tricky without over flooding the conference.

Slots would need to open up Chicago St and Seattle are way outside the footprint. That would give 6 football schools, 6 non-football schools and 1 FBS independent.
08-16-2020 04:15 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
No BSC school is leaving for the WAC unless someone drops FB and are forced out. Even then, the BSC doesn't have by-laws stipulating how a current member can be forced out, and that applies to affiliate members as well. Conversely I don't think the BSC has any interest in getting bigger either.

The only caveat is the China Virus is probably having various schools across the nation taking a long hard look at flying their student-athletes all over the place for various competitions. I'm hoping a bit or realignment with a more regional mindset in the near future. I'd love to see Sac State in a more regional conference for Oly sports.

The best the WAC can do is have a "WAC FB" conference (think MVFC) set up to offer a scheduling home for those potential D2 moveups. Maybe over time there will be enough members to get an FCS play-off autobid (6 needed). But don't expect anyone to leave an autobid conference for this hypothetical home, especially if it means moving their Oly sports into the WAC as well.
08-16-2020 07:41 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 10:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 07:48 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.

Well, they are happy to be in a D1 conference. They have 37 straight conference wins in the PFL. That probably makes them happy. But the travel is brutal and expensive. To be in the same conference with UC-Davis and Cal Poly would probably make them very happy. They don't have to be a scholarship football team to play in the WAC football league. I just think if given the opportunity, they might take it.

WAC football would need more than San Diego. They would need UTRGV. They would need to steal a couple of Southland schools, probably ACU and UIW. They might need another D2 move-up. What is not going to happen is more football teams in the Big Sky. At 13, they have too many.

You don't think USD has had many chances to move up to scholarship football? They have, yet, they are still playing, and happy in the PL!
08-17-2020 04:15 PM
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