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Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 06:02 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:02 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look, I’m glad you guys are in the WAC and I agree the WAC could have upside, but to believe that the WAC was choice #1 is not logical.

The SLC said no and TSU wanted to be D1, so they took option B. That’s fine, nothing wrong with that. Why would a football school choose FCS independence over a regional conference?

Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

You don't ask, you get asked. No definitive answer why the two sides chose to go separate ways. Tarleton had a backup plan with more upside, the SLC has.......its Louisiana schools.

More D2 moveups from the LSC and some SLC defectors makes tbe most sense.

You keep saying SLC schools will defect
and you keep dodging the question of why any SLC school would leave for a hodgepodge football WAC. Why would they leave? And why wouldn't you want to be in a conference with access to Louisiana talent?

No I don't, I say its a scenario that makes sense. Until we see the WAC add another school, all of it is hypothetical. The SLC Louisiana schools were in financial dire straights long before Covid, wouldn't be surprised if some shutdown football altogether like UNO. I'd take AZ and CA recruit access over LA any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
08-14-2020 06:18 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 06:18 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 06:02 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

You don't ask, you get asked. No definitive answer why the two sides chose to go separate ways. Tarleton had a backup plan with more upside, the SLC has.......its Louisiana schools.

More D2 moveups from the LSC and some SLC defectors makes tbe most sense.

You keep saying SLC schools will defect
and you keep dodging the question of why any SLC school would leave for a hodgepodge football WAC. Why would they leave? And why wouldn't you want to be in a conference with access to Louisiana talent?

No I don't, I say its a scenario that makes sense. Until we see the WAC add another school, all of it is hypothetical. The SLC Louisiana schools were in financial dire straights long before Covid, wouldn't be surprised if some shutdown football altogether like UNO. I'd take AZ and CA recruit access over LA any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Ok well why would it make sense for SLC schools to defect?
08-14-2020 06:23 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 06:23 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 06:18 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 06:02 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

You don't ask, you get asked. No definitive answer why the two sides chose to go separate ways. Tarleton had a backup plan with more upside, the SLC has.......its Louisiana schools.

More D2 moveups from the LSC and some SLC defectors makes tbe most sense.

You keep saying SLC schools will defect
and you keep dodging the question of why any SLC school would leave for a hodgepodge football WAC. Why would they leave? And why wouldn't you want to be in a conference with access to Louisiana talent?

No I don't, I say its a scenario that makes sense. Until we see the WAC add another school, all of it is hypothetical. The SLC Louisiana schools were in financial dire straights long before Covid, wouldn't be surprised if some shutdown football altogether like UNO. I'd take AZ and CA recruit access over LA any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Ok well why would it make sense for SLC schools to defect?

Better question is what happens if SLC loses Louisiana football schools? SLC football viability depends on schools that aren't exactly standing on solid ground. Might make an ACU and UIW nervous, among others.
08-14-2020 07:40 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:02 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 04:02 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 03:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Why did they study only the WAC and Southland then? Why wasn’t the Summit, OVC, or other conference studied?

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5...y+2018.pdf

You’re trying to tell me your school would rather play Chicago St, Seattle U, California Baptist, and Utah Valley over Stephen F Austin, Lamar, Sam Houston, and Abilene Christian?

Yes as the WAC has a tremendous upside while the Southland is all they will ever be. And who knows what the WAC is thinking, but maybe one, two or three teams you listed comes to the WAC.

Look, I’m glad you guys are in the WAC and I agree the WAC could have upside, but to believe that the WAC was choice #1 is not logical.

The SLC said no and TSU wanted to be D1, so they took option B. That’s fine, nothing wrong with that. Why would a football school choose FCS independence over a regional conference?

Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

Sam and SFA are probably joined at the hip, for life. No other "historical rivals" exist in the SLC.
08-14-2020 07:57 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 07:57 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:02 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 04:02 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  Yes as the WAC has a tremendous upside while the Southland is all they will ever be. And who knows what the WAC is thinking, but maybe one, two or three teams you listed comes to the WAC.

Look, I’m glad you guys are in the WAC and I agree the WAC could have upside, but to believe that the WAC was choice #1 is not logical.

The SLC said no and TSU wanted to be D1, so they took option B. That’s fine, nothing wrong with that. Why would a football school choose FCS independence over a regional conference?

Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

Sam and SFA are probably joined at the hip, for life. No other "historical rivals" exist in the SLC.

Okay man, you seem to have some sort of bias towards the SLC. By historical rivals, I meant teams they have been playing for awhile. Those teams you mentioned aren’t going to leave playing McNeese, Lamar, and SELA to play Dixie and your recently D2 school. You talk junk about the Louisiana schools, like anyone would rather be in a league with a brand new UTGRV football program.
08-14-2020 08:10 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
Whenever conference shuffle comes up, I look at outline schools in each conferences. Big Sky- Sac. St is the only CA school in the Big Sky. Sac St. could easily go to the Big West-which would make them a 12 team conference- for all sports and be football only in the Big Sky- just like Cal Poly and Davis. For Sac St. going to the Big West, means much less travel expenses. If Sac St. leaves the Big Sky, that gets the Big Sky to 10 schools for all sports and still at 13 for football. Maybe the Big Sky wants Sac St. to have a team in CA, for recruiting reasons.

Another thought- maybe the Big Sky follows the American Conf. and adds a non football school to have an even number of teams for other sports. Yes, that plan blew up when UConn went back to the Big East. Maybe the Big Sky with Sac St. adds a non football school like Seattle or UVU for 12 teams for all other sports. They don't need to add more teams in football.
08-14-2020 08:30 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 08:10 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 07:57 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:02 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look, I’m glad you guys are in the WAC and I agree the WAC could have upside, but to believe that the WAC was choice #1 is not logical.

The SLC said no and TSU wanted to be D1, so they took option B. That’s fine, nothing wrong with that. Why would a football school choose FCS independence over a regional conference?

Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

Sam and SFA are probably joined at the hip, for life. No other "historical rivals" exist in the SLC.

Okay man, you seem to have some sort of bias towards the SLC. By historical rivals, I meant teams they have been playing for awhile. Those teams you mentioned aren’t going to leave playing McNeese, Lamar, and SELA to play Dixie and your recently D2 school. You talk junk about the Louisiana schools, like anyone would rather be in a league with a brand new UTGRV football program.

I do not. I love me some SFA, really hope they join us in the WAC. Their basketball program would be a welcome addition.

How come? You are aware our "recently D2 school" has history and rivalries with the schools I mentioned, right? You're also aware Tarleton played and beat SFA at home last season in football, right? Nobody in the SLC intimidates Tarleton, even when we were D2, I'll just say that.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2020 08:33 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
08-14-2020 08:32 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 06:18 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 06:02 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 05:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Not true.

And THAT my friend is the $65,000 question. What if the WAC has plans to expand further into Texas? Where else would they get enough schools to build a football conference? I'll wait...

So Tarleton never asked the SLC for membership? Why would they put them in the study then?

Maybe the WAC is building a football conference, who is going to be in it? Dixie St, maybe UT-RGV, who else? Why would SFA, SHSU, ACU, and Lamar leave the SLC for a cobbled together conference with a school in Utah? Why wouldn’t they remain in a more compact league with historical rivals???

You don't ask, you get asked. No definitive answer why the two sides chose to go separate ways. Tarleton had a backup plan with more upside, the SLC has.......its Louisiana schools.

More D2 moveups from the LSC and some SLC defectors makes tbe most sense.

You keep saying SLC schools will defect
and you keep dodging the question of why any SLC school would leave for a hodgepodge football WAC. Why would they leave? And why wouldn't you want to be in a conference with access to Louisiana talent?

No I don't, I say its a scenario that makes sense. Until we see the WAC add another school, all of it is hypothetical. The SLC Louisiana schools were in financial dire straights long before Covid, wouldn't be surprised if some shutdown football altogether like UNO. I'd take AZ and CA recruit access over LA any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

UNO never had a NCAA football team. They were always club football.
08-14-2020 08:38 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
I wonder what other Lone Star conf. schools with football, will make the move up. Just based on enrollment- Commerce, West Texas, Midwestern St. and Kingsville all have football and the largest enrollments. In the next five years, does anybody see any of those four schools moving to D1 and the WAC?
08-14-2020 08:42 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
[quote='Hilldog' pid='16947726' dateline='1597455720']
I wonder what other Lone Star conf. schools with football, will make the move up. Just based on enrollment- Commerce, West Texas, Midwestern St. and Kingsville all have football and the largest enrollments. In the next five years, does anybody see any of those four schools moving to D1 and the WAC?

I personally think they're watching Tarleton's transition and WAC compatability very closely. The schools you mentioned are outgrowing the LSC and D2, just like Tarleton did. Plus they all have the financial stability and facilities to make the move. Angelo State as well.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2020 09:01 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
08-14-2020 08:57 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 08:57 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  [quote='Hilldog' pid='16947726' dateline='1597455720']
I wonder what other Lone Star conf. schools with football, will make the move up. Just based on enrollment- Commerce, West Texas, Midwestern St. and Kingsville all have football and the largest enrollments. In the next five years, does anybody see any of those four schools moving to D1 and the WAC?

I personally think they're watching Tarleton's transition and WAC compatability very closely. The schools you mentioned are outgrowing the LSC and D2, just like Tarleton did. Plus they all have the financial stability and facilities to make the move. Angelo State as well.

The LSC had a rough decade for the 2010's! OK schools moving to form a new conference, other schools going D1, and then back filling with members of the Heartland and a couple NAIA schools moving up.

I also wonder if members of the Mid-America conference would think to move up to D1 and the WAC!
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2020 09:21 PM by Hilldog.)
08-14-2020 09:17 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 08:30 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  Whenever conference shuffle comes up, I look at outline schools in each conferences. Big Sky- Sac. St is the only CA school in the Big Sky. Sac St. could easily go to the Big West-which would make them a 12 team conference- for all sports and be football only in the Big Sky- just like Cal Poly and Davis. For Sac St. going to the Big West, means much less travel expenses. If Sac St. leaves the Big Sky, that gets the Big Sky to 10 schools for all sports and still at 13 for football. Maybe the Big Sky wants Sac St. to have a team in CA, for recruiting reasons.

Another thought- maybe the Big Sky follows the American Conf. and adds a non football school to have an even number of teams for other sports. Yes, that plan blew up when UConn went back to the Big East. Maybe the Big Sky with Sac St. adds a non football school like Seattle or UVU for 12 teams for all other sports. They don't need to add more teams in football.

Do you actually think SU or UVU would jump ship to a lesser conference? The only reason I could see them leaving is that they think they have a chance of winning the conference in some sports.
08-15-2020 12:07 AM
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Vaqueronation Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
For Utrgv if we had a choice of the Wac or the Southland then I'd rather be in the Wac as well. The Southland is purgatory.
08-15-2020 02:03 AM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 02:03 AM)Vaqueronation Wrote:  For Utrgv if we had a choice of the Wac or the Southland then I'd rather be in the Wac as well. The Southland is purgatory.

Agreed.
08-15-2020 02:24 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 12:07 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 08:30 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  Whenever conference shuffle comes up, I look at outline schools in each conferences. Big Sky- Sac. St is the only CA school in the Big Sky. Sac St. could easily go to the Big West-which would make them a 12 team conference- for all sports and be football only in the Big Sky- just like Cal Poly and Davis. For Sac St. going to the Big West, means much less travel expenses. If Sac St. leaves the Big Sky, that gets the Big Sky to 10 schools for all sports and still at 13 for football. Maybe the Big Sky wants Sac St. to have a team in CA, for recruiting reasons.

Another thought- maybe the Big Sky follows the American Conf. and adds a non football school to have an even number of teams for other sports. Yes, that plan blew up when UConn went back to the Big East. Maybe the Big Sky with Sac St. adds a non football school like Seattle or UVU for 12 teams for all other sports. They don't need to add more teams in football.

Do you actually think SU or UVU would jump ship to a lesser conference? The only reason I could see them leaving is that they think they have a chance of winning the conference in some sports.

The Big Sky RPI is 18 and the WAC is 27 for men's basketball. All the other sports don't matter because they don't make money.
08-15-2020 02:57 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.
08-15-2020 03:01 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 02:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  The Big Sky RPI is 18 and the WAC is 27 for men's basketball. All the other sports don't matter because they don't make money.

That is looking at the 2019-2020 season. The NCAA now uses Net Ranking, and the ranking for 2019-2020 was BSC 18, WAC 25. Let’s look at prior seasons:

2018-2019 - WAC 16, BSC 27 (Net)
2017-2018 - WAC 15, BSC 17 (RPI)
2016-2017 - WAC 17, BSC 28 (RPI)
2015-2016 - WAC 26, BSC 28 (RPI)

The WAC historically has been the better basketball conference. WAC attendance is also better. Both are one bid conferences, but the WAC has more upside.
08-15-2020 03:24 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 02:57 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(08-15-2020 12:07 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 08:30 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  Whenever conference shuffle comes up, I look at outline schools in each conferences. Big Sky- Sac. St is the only CA school in the Big Sky. Sac St. could easily go to the Big West-which would make them a 12 team conference- for all sports and be football only in the Big Sky- just like Cal Poly and Davis. For Sac St. going to the Big West, means much less travel expenses. If Sac St. leaves the Big Sky, that gets the Big Sky to 10 schools for all sports and still at 13 for football. Maybe the Big Sky wants Sac St. to have a team in CA, for recruiting reasons.

Another thought- maybe the Big Sky follows the American Conf. and adds a non football school to have an even number of teams for other sports. Yes, that plan blew up when UConn went back to the Big East. Maybe the Big Sky with Sac St. adds a non football school like Seattle or UVU for 12 teams for all other sports. They don't need to add more teams in football.

Do you actually think SU or UVU would jump ship to a lesser conference? The only reason I could see them leaving is that they think they have a chance of winning the conference in some sports.

The Big Sky RPI is 18 and the WAC is 27 for men's basketball. All the other sports don't matter because they don't make money.

So you have a better rating 1 of the last 5 years and all of a sudden you’re a better conference? Over the last 5 years we’re averaging 19.8 while the big sky is 23.6. The WAC is doing this with transitioning schools while the big sky is established D1 schools. The current WAC members will get us back to the 15 ranking or lower in about 3 years. Our transitioning schools are hungry and motivated. Unlike the schools in the big sky that just settle. In that time, no school in the big sky could beat the WAC’s top 4.
08-15-2020 03:44 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
Big Sky and WAC both get 1 autobid to the tournament. RPI and NET rankings are irrelevant when they both achieve the same thing.
08-15-2020 04:20 PM
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RE: Is Dixie St destined for the Big Sky?
(08-15-2020 03:01 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2020 10:18 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I have to wonder if it’s inevitable that that Dixie St moves to the Big Sky to balance them out at 14 football schools and 12 for basketball.

With it being rough getting non-conference games out West they could play a 10 game conference schedule in football and a full double round robin in basketball for 22 games.

I think the Big Sky doesn’t want the stigma of taking a D2 call up so they are making them do their transition in the WAC.

Big Sky coaches already complain about the size of the conference. With 13 teams, the BSC is the largest FCS conference in college football. It makes more sense to add another Western FCS conference. That could be done with Dixie State, Tarleton State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly and San Diego.

The BSC gets one auto-bid and plays an uneven schedule. In a 13 team league playing eight conference games, it is possible to win the conference without playing the top teams in the conference. At least 11 teams would help lessen that possibility somewhat. A 10 team league might even be better.

A WAC football conference, even if is a “football only conference” like the MVFC, would get an additional auto-bid for western schools. Adding more teams to BSC football would be a bad idea that would not be supported by the BSC schools.

San Diego loves being in the Pioneer. They would have to fund 63 scholarships at about $35K per. They are a non starter for FCS football.

The idea of D1 non scholarship football ever got off the ground. The Pioneer League- was suppose to be the "pioneers" of the non scholarship division0 1AAA! I still wonder if a non scholarship division ever got off the ground, how many FCS schools would go non scholarships.
08-15-2020 07:48 PM
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