Gamecock
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-14-2020 10:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-14-2020 09:15 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote: Death isn’t the only negative outcome of Covid. I’m not sure if it will make the news too much if a student-athlete suffers lung or heart damage that limits his ability to turn pro.
That is why Quo and others do not get about the athletes who caught the virus could have these problems, and any players in the future. The athletes in the Big 10 and Pac 12 are glad that the season is postponed, and they are encouraging their counterparts in the other conferences to all sit out since there are no chance that these schools can keep an outbreak from happening. Look at the FSU fiasco.
The overwhelming majority of players want to play.
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08-15-2020 06:39 AM |
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Chappy
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 05:48 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote: (08-14-2020 01:25 PM)Statefan Wrote: So you are asserting that playing football causes COVID or causes negative COVID outcomes?
I’m not making a specific policy recommendation, I’m just making sure we’re not belittling the hard choices that colleges are making right now. Syracuse will have to travel to North Carolina and other southern states. We’ll see how it goes, right?
It's not like the virus is just hanging out in the air in NC waiting for northerners to come down. If the team follows protocol they will be safe here.
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08-15-2020 07:33 AM |
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quo vadis
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 01:54 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 AM)XLance Wrote: Data is from the first of this week.
North Carolina data:
0-17 - there is 1 death out of 15,307 cases (0.0065%)
18-24 - there are 3 deaths out of 19,121 cases (0.0157%)
And truth be told ... of these four sad cases, there's a good chance all of them involved a serious co-condition like a heart ailment or asthma or diabetes, and any athlete of any age with those right now should be self-isolating anyway so wouldn't be playing football.
If a 21 year old takes the football field this year, they are much much more likely to have a serious health event from just playing the game than from Covid.
It's a good thing these young men who play football don't have parents in their 40s and 50s, nor see their families, nor have any obesity or other health related problems among their close relatives. What's more the staff at the University where they go has nobody falling into those risk categories.
So are you saying all these football players who "want to play" could care less about their families ? That's a new one.
Beyond that, I'm 56. I'm an adult man, I can take care of myself. I do not want 21 year olds to have their lives stifled to protect me from Covid-19. It's my job to isolate and protect myself from them, not their job to be isolated and shut down to protect me. I was 21 once, I had that day in the sun, I am not about denying them theirs.
Frankly, I'm embarrassed by the notion of young people "protecting" old people by stifling their social and academic lives. That's a perverted concept, upside-down, IMO. We have a situation now where basically thousands of young people are losing massive social and employment and educational opportunities to allegedly protect 80 year olds with diabetes and asthma from what? Dying at 80 instead of 82?
Come on. IMO that's a warped value system, and selfish on the part of older people like me, who are the ones in power pushing and implementing it.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2020 08:29 AM by quo vadis.)
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08-15-2020 07:43 AM |
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quo vadis
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-14-2020 09:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 03:15 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: (08-14-2020 01:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 10:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote: That is why Quo and others do not get about the athletes who caught the virus could have these problems, and any players in the future.
We do get it. But absent scientific studies proving large risk of heart ailments or other permanent outcomes, we quite rightly do not believe that these anecdotes should be the basis of policy. They are scary anecdotes used by covidoids to justify shutting things down.
That's not how public health policy is made, nor should it be.
You don't wait around for months or years for statistical evidence of adverse long-term health effects to emerge before you put safeguards into place, IF you have a compelling a priori reason to think the disease by its nature is likely to produce such effects.
IMO there is no "a-priori compelling reason" to think that CV19 can cause non-trivial cases of serious heart damage in young people, that's why nobody was predicting that in March.
Plus, if there was, then it makes no sense to re-open campuses to large numbers of students. If heart damage is a real risk for 20 year olds, opening the campus to thousands of students is a far greater danger in terms of possible events than allowing a handful of athletes to play sports. Yet IIRC, the same schools that voted to shut down football are in fact opening their campuses for the return of students. And please, do not mention mask and social distance requirements for these returning students, as we know for sure that these will frequently be violated, in social situations in and around campus even if not in the classroom.
No, the talk about heart inflamation is at this point lacking adequate scientific basis. It's an excuse for covid-scareds to act on their un-scientific fears.
Truth is, the same people who yell the loudest about We Must Listen To The Science when the concerns of others are in play (concerns that they don't share) are among the first to say We Can't Wait For The Science or We Must Act As If Science Exists That Agrees With Us Even Though It Does Not Yet Exist when their own fears are in play.
They have found a lot of young people with heart damage after they caught the virus.
How many is a "a lot" David? And how many of those have been proven to be caused by CV19 and not some other virus they already had?
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08-15-2020 07:47 AM |
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XLance
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 01:54 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 AM)XLance Wrote: Data is from the first of this week.
North Carolina data:
0-17 - there is 1 death out of 15,307 cases (0.0065%)
18-24 - there are 3 deaths out of 19,121 cases (0.0157%)
And truth be told ... of these four sad cases, there's a good chance all of them involved a serious co-condition like a heart ailment or asthma or diabetes, and any athlete of any age with those right now should be self-isolating anyway so wouldn't be playing football.
If a 21 year old takes the football field this year, they are much much more likely to have a serious health event from just playing the game than from Covid.
It's a good thing these young men who play football don't have parents in their 40s and 50s, nor see their families, nor have any obesity or other health related problems among their close relatives. What's more the staff at the University where they go has nobody falling into those risk categories. North Carolina, and the south as a whole have no obesity or other health risks that a young person with covid-19 could inadvertently pass on and cause illness or death to loved ones or acquaintances. These 18-21 year olds are professionals and fully responsible and would never do that.
Oh wait ...
It's a good thing that these young men came to school when they did.
When the Carolina football team started to return to Chapel Hill in June from their homes, there were over 30 cases of COVID among the players.
All went through the quarantine process and were released. There have been no cases in over 5 weeks. What would have happened if those players had stayed at home. How many of their parents, grandparents and siblings would have been infected and died? Entire families could have been wiped out. Because of proper contact tracing those at home have been tested and treated......saved because of football.
If there is a problem with athletics and people getting exposed, it will come in the stands, not on the field.
Then if the proper distancing is put into place and the choke points can be managed (entrances/exits/restrooms/concessions), then it is the fan that has to manage their own risk. The players risk is being managed for them by health professionals.
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08-15-2020 08:02 AM |
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Chappy
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 09:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 03:15 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: (08-14-2020 01:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote: We do get it. But absent scientific studies proving large risk of heart ailments or other permanent outcomes, we quite rightly do not believe that these anecdotes should be the basis of policy. They are scary anecdotes used by covidoids to justify shutting things down.
That's not how public health policy is made, nor should it be.
You don't wait around for months or years for statistical evidence of adverse long-term health effects to emerge before you put safeguards into place, IF you have a compelling a priori reason to think the disease by its nature is likely to produce such effects.
IMO there is no "a-priori compelling reason" to think that CV19 can cause non-trivial cases of serious heart damage in young people, that's why nobody was predicting that in March.
Plus, if there was, then it makes no sense to re-open campuses to large numbers of students. If heart damage is a real risk for 20 year olds, opening the campus to thousands of students is a far greater danger in terms of possible events than allowing a handful of athletes to play sports. Yet IIRC, the same schools that voted to shut down football are in fact opening their campuses for the return of students. And please, do not mention mask and social distance requirements for these returning students, as we know for sure that these will frequently be violated, in social situations in and around campus even if not in the classroom.
No, the talk about heart inflamation is at this point lacking adequate scientific basis. It's an excuse for covid-scareds to act on their un-scientific fears.
Truth is, the same people who yell the loudest about We Must Listen To The Science when the concerns of others are in play (concerns that they don't share) are among the first to say We Can't Wait For The Science or We Must Act As If Science Exists That Agrees With Us Even Though It Does Not Yet Exist when their own fears are in play.
They have found a lot of young people with heart damage after they caught the virus.
How many is a "a lot" David? And how many of those have been proven to be caused by CV19 and not some other virus they already had?
Right.
"It was suggested by many in the national media that new concerns about the impact COVID-19 can have on internal organs, especially the heart, were a game-changer for Big Ten and Pac-12 officials. Foremost among the potential side effects was myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart muscle and is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.
“Our medical people have looked closely at the myocarditis issue. In fact, they’ve been tracking it for months,” Aresco said. “Certainly, that is something we take very seriously. It’s not a common condition.”
Aresco quoted the response from the AAC chief epidemiologist.
“His exact words were the ‘vast, vast majority of people that would develop this condition would recover,‘” said Aresco, emphasizing the expert used the word “vast” twice. “Trust me, if our medical professionals told us it was not safe to play, we would not go forward.”
Aresco said the AAC medical advisory board has been conferring with colleagues from the Big Ten to Pac-12 to ascertain the reasons behind those two conferences choosing to shut down." - From LINK
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2020 08:10 AM by Chappy.)
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08-15-2020 08:08 AM |
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Chappy
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
Bottom line:
Athletes are SAFER at school than at home because they are being tested regularly.
Athletes are SAFER at school than the rest of the student body because they are being tested regularly.
Athletes are SAFER playing in games than going to class because everyone participating in the games is being tested regularly, while their classmates are not.
Athletes are LESS LIKELY to spread Covid than other students because they are being tested regularly and being quarantined immediately when cases are discovered.
Just need to make sure schools are actually doing the testing they claim they are.
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08-15-2020 08:19 AM |
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Stugray2
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/lo...4e00d.html
You cannot have student athletes and maintain a true bubble. ND has 8% positive rate. They will likely have to close down on campus instruction soon. This whole notion that if it's safe to go to class it's safe to play football is insane. You guys have developed a special pleading logic to keep it going, where athletes are not students.
It's not going to work.
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08-15-2020 01:47 PM |
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DavidSt
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 08:08 AM)Chappy Wrote: (08-15-2020 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 09:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 03:15 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: That's not how public health policy is made, nor should it be.
You don't wait around for months or years for statistical evidence of adverse long-term health effects to emerge before you put safeguards into place, IF you have a compelling a priori reason to think the disease by its nature is likely to produce such effects.
IMO there is no "a-priori compelling reason" to think that CV19 can cause non-trivial cases of serious heart damage in young people, that's why nobody was predicting that in March.
Plus, if there was, then it makes no sense to re-open campuses to large numbers of students. If heart damage is a real risk for 20 year olds, opening the campus to thousands of students is a far greater danger in terms of possible events than allowing a handful of athletes to play sports. Yet IIRC, the same schools that voted to shut down football are in fact opening their campuses for the return of students. And please, do not mention mask and social distance requirements for these returning students, as we know for sure that these will frequently be violated, in social situations in and around campus even if not in the classroom.
No, the talk about heart inflamation is at this point lacking adequate scientific basis. It's an excuse for covid-scareds to act on their un-scientific fears.
Truth is, the same people who yell the loudest about We Must Listen To The Science when the concerns of others are in play (concerns that they don't share) are among the first to say We Can't Wait For The Science or We Must Act As If Science Exists That Agrees With Us Even Though It Does Not Yet Exist when their own fears are in play.
They have found a lot of young people with heart damage after they caught the virus.
How many is a "a lot" David? And how many of those have been proven to be caused by CV19 and not some other virus they already had?
Right.
"It was suggested by many in the national media that new concerns about the impact COVID-19 can have on internal organs, especially the heart, were a game-changer for Big Ten and Pac-12 officials. Foremost among the potential side effects was myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart muscle and is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.
“Our medical people have looked closely at the myocarditis issue. In fact, they’ve been tracking it for months,” Aresco said. “Certainly, that is something we take very seriously. It’s not a common condition.”
Aresco quoted the response from the AAC chief epidemiologist.
“His exact words were the ‘vast, vast majority of people that would develop this condition would recover,‘” said Aresco, emphasizing the expert used the word “vast” twice. “Trust me, if our medical professionals told us it was not safe to play, we would not go forward.”
Aresco said the AAC medical advisory board has been conferring with colleagues from the Big Ten to Pac-12 to ascertain the reasons behind those two conferences choosing to shut down." - From LINK
Tell that to the parents who just lost their child to the virus that attacked their hearts? It is deadly for these kids including mild cases. New studies are showing that more of the young that died who were healthy, died after their heart failed. The kids never had any heart issues before this. New studies are showing that Aresco's saying that the vast majority will recover is wrong.
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08-15-2020 02:23 PM |
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Chappy
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 01:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/lo...4e00d.html
You cannot have student athletes and maintain a true bubble. ND has 8% positive rate. They will likely have to close down on campus instruction soon. This whole notion that if it's safe to go to class it's safe to play football is insane. You guys have developed a special pleading logic to keep it going, where athletes are not students.
It's not going to work.
If the campuses shut down I will change my tune. But as long as its ‘safe’ enough for kids to be at school, it’s ‘safe’ enough for sports.
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08-15-2020 04:32 PM |
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Chappy
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 02:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-15-2020 08:08 AM)Chappy Wrote: (08-15-2020 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (08-14-2020 09:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: (08-14-2020 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO there is no "a-priori compelling reason" to think that CV19 can cause non-trivial cases of serious heart damage in young people, that's why nobody was predicting that in March.
Plus, if there was, then it makes no sense to re-open campuses to large numbers of students. If heart damage is a real risk for 20 year olds, opening the campus to thousands of students is a far greater danger in terms of possible events than allowing a handful of athletes to play sports. Yet IIRC, the same schools that voted to shut down football are in fact opening their campuses for the return of students. And please, do not mention mask and social distance requirements for these returning students, as we know for sure that these will frequently be violated, in social situations in and around campus even if not in the classroom.
No, the talk about heart inflamation is at this point lacking adequate scientific basis. It's an excuse for covid-scareds to act on their un-scientific fears.
Truth is, the same people who yell the loudest about We Must Listen To The Science when the concerns of others are in play (concerns that they don't share) are among the first to say We Can't Wait For The Science or We Must Act As If Science Exists That Agrees With Us Even Though It Does Not Yet Exist when their own fears are in play.
They have found a lot of young people with heart damage after they caught the virus.
How many is a "a lot" David? And how many of those have been proven to be caused by CV19 and not some other virus they already had?
Right.
"It was suggested by many in the national media that new concerns about the impact COVID-19 can have on internal organs, especially the heart, were a game-changer for Big Ten and Pac-12 officials. Foremost among the potential side effects was myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart muscle and is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.
“Our medical people have looked closely at the myocarditis issue. In fact, they’ve been tracking it for months,” Aresco said. “Certainly, that is something we take very seriously. It’s not a common condition.”
Aresco quoted the response from the AAC chief epidemiologist.
“His exact words were the ‘vast, vast majority of people that would develop this condition would recover,‘” said Aresco, emphasizing the expert used the word “vast” twice. “Trust me, if our medical professionals told us it was not safe to play, we would not go forward.”
Aresco said the AAC medical advisory board has been conferring with colleagues from the Big Ten to Pac-12 to ascertain the reasons behind those two conferences choosing to shut down." - From LINK
Tell that to the parents who just lost their child to the virus that attacked their hearts? It is deadly for these kids including mild cases. New studies are showing that more of the young that died who were healthy, died after their heart failed. The kids never had any heart issues before this. New studies are showing that Aresco's saying that the vast majority will recover is wrong.
I missed where a college player died.
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08-15-2020 04:33 PM |
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EagleNationRising
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
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08-15-2020 05:21 PM |
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quo vadis
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RE: COVID North Carolina deaths
(08-15-2020 05:21 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshVitale/st...61217?s=07
... so this must mean that the B1G and PAC have kept their campuses closed, right?
Wrong, their campuses are open and students are returning. If the fears of the covidoids are correct, it makes ZERO sense to shut football down but keep campuses open.
IMO, this exposes the silliness of the PAC/B1G canceling football.
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08-15-2020 05:46 PM |
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