(08-10-2020 01:37 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  They thought everyone else would follow their lead but now are looking at a season where their teams aren’t eligible for bowls and a championship while everyone else is

Can you really say a team north of the Mason-Dixon is eligible for a championship at this point? I mean, it's going to suck not having Big Ten football in the fall, but let's not kid ourselves here. College football's become a regional sport. If you're not in the South you're playing for a conference championship. If the Big Ten doesn't want to play, it's not like we're losing any big championship contenders.

I'm fine with the Big Ten making this move. The student comes first, then the athlete. One needless death or debilitation is too many.

(08-10-2020 02:47 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:02 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  If you saw coeds in Chapel Hill, they probably weren't bimbos.......bimbos are not that smart.

No masks in large clusters = stupid = bimbo

Masks don’t work anyway. Read the boxes the mask comes in.
“Does not protect against viruses”

LOL - stop with the idiocy. Masks work by stopping the aerosols that can contain the virus.

EVERY Reputable epidemiologist agrees that masks help.

But I am sure you have a youtube video from a car salesman that tells you otherwise.

People like you are why the US, alone among western countries, can't get a grip on this pandemic

Nothing idiotic about. The CDC did a study before COVID regarding the flu and found no significant help in stopping the flu by wearing a mask.

Even though the masks may stop the aerosols, vast majority of the viruses that are breathed out get into the air regardless.

The CDC recommends masks for the flu if you're showing symptoms, meaning when it's transmissible. They do think that being vaccinated and practicing good hygiene is good enough for prevention. The difference with the flu is that its window of transmission is far smaller than the coronavirus and there's a vaccine. You can transmit the coronavirus for two weeks before you show any symptoms. You wear a mask in case you're asymptomatic. It's not for you, but for those around you.

(08-10-2020 02:47 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:02 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  If you saw coeds in Chapel Hill, they probably weren't bimbos.......bimbos are not that smart.

No masks in large clusters = stupid = bimbo

Masks don’t work anyway. Read the boxes the mask comes in.
“Does not protect against viruses”

LOL - stop with the idiocy. Masks work by stopping the aerosols that can contain the virus.

EVERY Reputable epidemiologist agrees that masks help.

But I am sure you have a youtube video from a car salesman that tells you otherwise.

People like you are why the US, alone among western countries, can't get a grip on this pandemic

Nothing idiotic about. The CDC did a study before COVID regarding the flu and found no significant help in stopping the flu by wearing a mask.

Even though the masks may stop the aerosols, vast majority of the viruses that are breathed out get into the air regardless.

And they have done more studies SINCE Covid and now recommend masks

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/...masks.html

Mayo Clinic agrees

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond...t-20485449

So does Johns Hopkins

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/c...ed-to-know

Masks can stop enough of the aerosols to reduce infections by up to 75% if everyone wore them in public indoor settings.

It's science. Try it.

(08-10-2020 03:13 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:37 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  They thought everyone else would follow their lead but now are looking at a season where their teams aren’t eligible for bowls and a championship while everyone else is

Can you really say a team north of the Mason-Dixon is eligible for a championship at this point? I mean, it's going to suck not having Big Ten football in the fall, but let's not kid ourselves here. College football's become a regional sport. If you're not in the South you're playing for a conference championship. If the Big Ten doesn't want to play, it's not like we're losing any big championship contenders.

I'm fine with the Big Ten making this move. The student comes first, then the athlete. One needless death or debilitation is too many.

(08-10-2020 02:47 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 02:02 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  No masks in large clusters = stupid = bimbo

Masks don’t work anyway. Read the boxes the mask comes in.
“Does not protect against viruses”

LOL - stop with the idiocy. Masks work by stopping the aerosols that can contain the virus.

EVERY Reputable epidemiologist agrees that masks help.

But I am sure you have a youtube video from a car salesman that tells you otherwise.

People like you are why the US, alone among western countries, can't get a grip on this pandemic

Nothing idiotic about. The CDC did a study before COVID regarding the flu and found no significant help in stopping the flu by wearing a mask.

Even though the masks may stop the aerosols, vast majority of the viruses that are breathed out get into the air regardless.

The CDC recommends masks for the flu if you're showing symptoms, meaning when it's transmissible. They do think that being vaccinated and practicing good hygiene is good enough for prevention. The difference with the flu is that its window of transmission is far smaller than the coronavirus and there's a vaccine. You can transmit the coronavirus for two weeks before you show any symptoms. You wear a mask in case you're asymptomatic. It's not for you, but for those around you.

Proper precautions (washing hands, social distancing, staying home when sick, wearing masks when sick) would dramatically cut flu deaths/illnesses as well.

(08-10-2020 02:27 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:51 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:39 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:22 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Big 12/SEC/ACC are going to make out like bandits if they play while the others sit. Delaney and Scott will be fired so long as the virus doesn't have a crazy resurgence forcing mid season interruptions. Mark this post. What a disaster if this is true.

That's a mighty big "if" right there. What if a player dies?

Are you familiar with the sport of football and it’s inherent risk to the health, safety and even lives of its players who choose to do it anyway?

Yeah, but I also can't catch a debilitating broken bone injury by simply being breathed on. Nor can I transmit that broken bone to everyone I'm in contact with by simply breathing near them.

No--but you can die, get paralyzed, be permanently disabled, or suffer a significant injury playing football. Furthermore, if you dont play football, the chance of those football related injuries practically vanishes......but if you step off the football field, you still can easily contract the virus from your friends, the grocery store clerk, or a family member. The risk of the virus remains whether you play or dont play. Its basically a ubiquitous part of day to day life these days---welcome to a pandemic.

(08-10-2020 02:27 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:51 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:39 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 01:22 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Big 12/SEC/ACC are going to make out like bandits if they play while the others sit. Delaney and Scott will be fired so long as the virus doesn't have a crazy resurgence forcing mid season interruptions. Mark this post. What a disaster if this is true.

That's a mighty big "if" right there. What if a player dies?

Are you familiar with the sport of football and it’s inherent risk to the health, safety and even lives of its players who choose to do it anyway?

Yeah, but I also can't catch a debilitating broken bone injury by simply being breathed on. Nor can I transmit that broken bone to everyone I'm in contact with by simply breathing near them.

If you think college football is a bad idea because it creates crowds that is fine. But if you think college football is bad because it exposes players to more virus risk, you probably don't know any 15-25 year olds!

(08-10-2020 03:04 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 09:25 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 08:33 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 08:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  There is a critical socio-political subtext to this - unions. The Big 10 and Pac 12 are located in Union States. The ACC and SEC are located mostly in "right to work" States. In many of these places from Texas, to Florida, to Virginia, hell will freeze over before many of these Universities give the appearance of caving in to a union.

Can you provide any quotes, evidence, comments, articles or literally anything to support the idea that the Big Ten cancelled the season because of unions? You don’t even make a causal connection between the two ideas.

You realize the Big Ten (Indiana) have a player who was training on campus and got Covid but recovered and now has serious heart complications right? You don’t think a news story like that might have effected the coaches and administrators more than the union boogeymen man? Not every decision we don’t like requires a conspiracy.

@MattHayesCFB

Power 5 AD just texted: “You and your colleagues are chasing the wrong story. The virus alone is enough to stop the season. But presidents are terrified of players organizing. It’s the paradigm shift to change amateur sports. You potentially lose one season with the virus. You lose the entire framework of your mission statement with players organizing. They need time to figure out how to attack it.”


I don't talk out of my ass like some folks.

Here's a live link https://twitter.com/MattHayesCFB/status/...4943255554

Before you say something stupid because you have not considered the underlying economics of football and how football relates to universities - keep in mind that one of the worst nightmares you can have is some group of young yahoos obtaining a closed union shop and pissing off not just you the employer, but your OTHER employees.

As to the kid in Indiana. I hate he got sick, but yesterday driving through Chapel Hill I saw about 4,000 scantily clad coeds and only about 10% of them wearing masks. Just like you can't see herpes, crabs, and hiv, you can't see COVID on a bimbo. Are we to expect that these 19-22 year old football players are hiding from the bimbos?

When the Big 10 makes a business decision in it's favor, that's not a conspiracy - just business. I had not noticed them to be anything other than a business and damn big ones at that.

Your point (as I understand it) is that the B1G and PAC 12 conference footprints have fewer states with Right to Work Laws and as a result they are more threatened by the notion of players unionizing than other conferences which lack Right To Work Laws (primarily the ACC and SEC)? As a result, these conferences fears of players unionizing is a primary reason why they are moving towards cancelling. Is that accurate?

You specifically talk about Right To Work Laws. 5 of the 11 states in the B1G footprint have Right To Work Laws or 3 fewer than the SEC. You are correct that there are fewer states in both conference footprints with right to work laws but your whole argument has a rather obvious flaw. Why would the B1G, which opposed Northwestern football players attempts to unionize and proceeded to get a TKO victory in court, suddenly be afraid of unions? The NLRB's ruling NOT to recognize the players was a precedent-setting court victory for the B1G and NCAA. Most of the same presidents, AD's, coaches, and folks in the league office are still around from waaaaaay back in 2015 when the case ended. Did the league presidents suddenly get amnesia and catch 'I'm afraid of unions" fever? You have a higher hurdle to claim the B1G and pac12 did this is out of fear of unionizing given one of those two conferences won a decisive (and currently uncontested) legal victory over this exact same issue 5 years ago. You claim this is all about their fear of unions, and I agree that the fears of players organizing played a role in this but I don't agree that it's the primary reason.

I have an mba, work in finance, and played football at a division 1 college this decade. I'm not an expert, but I'm going to ask for receipts when someone offers a simplistic explanation to a complex problem. Even more so when the explanation is "unions" and you're calling out a conference that won a huge legal battle on that exact same issue in the recent past. Do I think fears about players organizing played a role in conferences trying to cancel seasons? F yes. Do I think it's the primary reason the B1G and pac 12 went ahead? No and quotes from unnamed sources with their own agendas on twitter don't change that.

We agree that the B1G is a business that makes business decisions. We disagree on the primary factors in this business decision. Their undefined and unknown legal liability seems like a more obvious motivating factor than "unions" for a group of people that have fought and won that battle rather decisively in the very recent past.

"Right to work" where you are from has a certain meaning and connotation. In the Southeast it is a term that is used as short hand for issues related to a system of capital whereby the ownership and the profits are concentrated in the hands of a few at the top. The labor is just a widget so to speak. Because of a number of laws and customs that are different in the Southern, Plains, and Rocky Mountain states, the University entities in most of those states are much more insulated from the negative externalities associated with unionism. To oppose a union in Illinois, Michigan, California, Washington, etc., is to take a side in a culture related brawl. The oppose a union in North Carolina, Kentucky, or Texas carries no negative cultural baggage.

Michigan and Cal do not want to lose the moral high ground related to organized labor and even the organization of a group of numbskulls can lead to problems in the rest of the organization. One of the key cultural differences between the "Southeast" and the North and Pacific West is the role of paternalism and the control of the commanding heights of the economy by elites.

The Big 10 has one goal - look after the continued success of the Big 10.

To achieve that goal, they find they must carry water for the Pac 12. They are addressing non-football issues under the guise of addressing football. In a twisted, ironic way, the football has been turned into a convenient "political football" to be kicked about the same way race was used as a political football in the South for decades.

When you finally get to football, the Big 10 and the Pac 12 are worried about falling behind to the southern schools. They have demographic and now political worries to that effect. The Big 10 wants to set the agenda and follow no one. To do that they have to split the SEC/ACC/B12. If those three move forward no one will miss the P12 champion and Michigan and PSU fans will just chuckle at Ohio State's misfortune.

Control over workers is a feature of Fordism. Where is the home of Fordism?

Michigan.

(08-10-2020 04:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  But if you think college football is bad because it exposes players to more virus risk, you probably don't know any 15-25 year olds!

Which is why they need to be saved from themselves...lol.

Come on B1G ... Do the right thing and Play!

(08-10-2020 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Come on B1G ... Do the right thing and Play!

You're going to be disappointed if you expect that to happen.

(08-10-2020 05:26 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Come on B1G ... Do the right thing and Play!

You're going to be disappointed if you expect that to happen.

I don't expect it to happen. I am heartened by the #WeWantToPlay surge but fear old stuffed shirt presidents will ignore it anyway.

(08-10-2020 05:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 05:26 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Come on B1G ... Do the right thing and Play!

You're going to be disappointed if you expect that to happen.

I don't expect it to happen. I am heartened by the #WeWantToPlay surge but fear old stuffed shirt presidents will ignore it anyway.

Agreed sadly. Won't go to much into on this board, but definitely feel 90% of decisions on with this virus from about anyone with any power has been done with the idea of not looking bad rather than actually doing things that actually protect people. Sometimes not looking bad and helping people happen to concide, but at those points it is just a happy coincidence.

In this case, the presidents will look after themselves same as 90% of everyone else. If they cancel football and students get sick, they'll say, we've done everything they can and it will be accepted. If they don't cancel football and students get sick (exact same amount, more, less, doesn't matter), then they will be crucified for choosing money over health. It won't be true, but that doesn't matter in the modern media age.

Only thing that will change that in my view is if presidents feel job threatened if they cancel. That will only come if a big enough alumni revolt or a big enough financial hit. That is possible, but don't think it will be enough to win out. If they delay to Spring though, it is a real possibility the tables turn enough.

(08-10-2020 05:26 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Come on B1G ... Do the right thing and Play!

You're going to be disappointed if you expect that to happen.

Actually, this is where it gets kinda interesting. The easiest way for this to play out for the Big10 decision makers was for their trial balloon to be quickly seconded by the other power conferences. If everyone shuts down---then the decision makers can say they had no choice, all the other P5's agreed it was too risky, and everyone can declare they did the right thing.

But with the SEC saying we are playing until we cant---well---the potential for getting egg on your face and making a 400 million dollar mistake looms much larger. If the SEC plays---has few outbreaks and ends up with a successful season---then the Big10 decision makers blew it big time and cost the league 400 million in TV revenue plus all the lost ticket sales (reduced as it might be, it would still be significant). Thats the kind of screw up that can cost a commissioner his job.

You can always shut down a season if it goes sideways. My guess is that for P5's with 100's of millions on the line, its probably now become very risky for an administrator to shut the league down without even trying to play. It may be more risky for his job than having the season go sideways. Its different for the MAC. The MAC probably comes out ahead financially by not playing since their money games were all eliminated. With TV delivering less than a million a team, its hard to see how its not cheaper for the MAC to shut down. I think the MW pulled the trigger because they knew at least 3 teams were probably going to pull the plug on the season regardless of what the conference did.

I wont be a bit surprised if Big10 ends up reversing course on this one.

(08-10-2020 08:41 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Only thing that will change that in my view is if presidents feel job threatened if they cancel.

Or if they feel Nebraska and others might try to tear apart the conference if they cancel the season this week.

When Delany was commissioner, people fell in line because they were scared of him.

Nebraska isn't scared of the new guy. Neither is anyone else in the Big Ten. They probably respect Warren -- it's not like Larry Scott, where even his own conference's presidents know he's an incompetent fool that they just haven't gotten around to firing yet -- but Delany had 20 years of built-up power to make people fall in line behind things they don't really want to do. Warren doesn't have that.

(08-11-2020 01:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-10-2020 08:41 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Only thing that will change that in my view is if presidents feel job threatened if they cancel.

Or if they feel Nebraska and others might try to tear apart the conference if they cancel the season this week.

When Delany was commissioner, people fell in line because they were scared of him.

Nebraska isn't scared of the new guy. Neither is anyone else in the Big Ten. They probably respect Warren -- it's not like Larry Scott, where even his own conference's presidents know he's an incompetent fool that they just haven't gotten around to firing yet -- but Delany had 20 years of built-up power to make people fall in line behind things they don't really want to do. Warren doesn't have that.

Warren has had a very rough week with all of the leaked reports, the solidarity from coaches and student-athletes and the negative perception of the B1G attempting to stage a universal cancellation (with majority failing to follow).

It is even more humorous that he has a son that plays football at Mississippi State. How can he justify supporting cancelling B1G Football, when his own son will be playing football in the SEC?

I wouldn't be shocked if Warren doesn't last longer than 5 years in the B1G, at this rate. No one wants to replace a legendary leader of a large, successful organization. Everyone wants to replace the person that replaced the legend.

Scott Frost openly talks about joining another conference for the season:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...ng-big-ten

Ohio congressman says shutting down season is "catastrophic" and a "disaster" that is "an enormous mistake for the kids."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/20...340755001/

(08-11-2020 01:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wont be a bit surprised if Big10 ends up reversing course on this one.

Regardless of what happens, the B1G generally looks awful and their new Commissioner looks weak. The insurrection among prominent coaches and ADs shows that no groundwork was laid to make sure the conference spoke with one voice, and the delays and leaks have laid bare the internal chaos.

Other P5 look like smooth running machines, the B1G looks like a menagerie right now.

(08-11-2020 10:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 01:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I wont be a bit surprised if Big10 ends up reversing course on this one.

Regardless of what happens, the B1G generally looks awful and their new Commissioner looks weak. The insurrection among prominent coaches and ADs shows that no groundwork was laid to make sure the conference spoke with one voice, and the delays and leaks have laid bare the internal chaos.

Other P5 look like smooth running machines, the B1G looks like a menagerie right now.

It goes beyond even that. They just released their revamped 2020 schedule Wednesday of last week with much pomp and circumstance. Three days later the rumors start flying that they are going to cancel the season. What changed with the virus in those three days that would cause the 180 degree flip? Absolutely nothing. It looks like absolute amateur hour in Rosemont right now.

The B1G should have never released a schedule. This whole fiasco feels like the presidents have been set on not competing this season but the B1G were too chicken to admit it and publicize it until backed into a wall.

Scott Frost and Nebraska are in no position to pound the table for anything in the conference. I'll listen to Ryan Day and OSU but Nebraska and Frost can kick rocks. They've had more felons and embarrassing hirings/firings than wins since they joined the conference.