The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(08-08-2020 10:21 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:51 AM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:42 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  Today’s decision shows this is just not a long-term viable football conference. It exists at the leisure of the Big 10 for tune-up games. It will be beyond embarrassing if we are the only conference not playing, and even more when everyone finally grasps how far out of the pandemic woods we will be in October.

I’ve always hated the idea of leaving the MAC: going FCS, or trying to go big, or perhaps trying to join another conference. But, who could ever imagine this turn of events?

Ironically, if the rumors are true, it was NIU that led the charge here, the school with the least loyalty to the conference.

What say you?

I have been saying this for years. Schools that can, should try to latch on to another conference. The MAC literally fetches the drippings of college athletics.
So, I wonder if WMU will be courted by other conferences? I mean, we are academic leaders, especially in our athletics department. What is that worth to other conferences?

Any chance we had to attract interest from other conferences (which was always a long shot regardless) was blown in the last 3.5 years.

There IS no other conference that would be interested in most MAC schools. Look at the landscape around the country. Every time I hear this line of thinking I just roll my eyes. We're in the best place for us right now.

Academics means little to a league looking for a new home, unless you are talking a P5 league that believes it is all that regarding its academics.

(08-08-2020 07:24 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 10:21 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:51 AM)Windycitybronco Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:42 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  Today’s decision shows this is just not a long-term viable football conference. It exists at the leisure of the Big 10 for tune-up games. It will be beyond embarrassing if we are the only conference not playing, and even more when everyone finally grasps how far out of the pandemic woods we will be in October.

I’ve always hated the idea of leaving the MAC: going FCS, or trying to go big, or perhaps trying to join another conference. But, who could ever imagine this turn of events?

Ironically, if the rumors are true, it was NIU that led the charge here, the school with the least loyalty to the conference.

What say you?

I have been saying this for years. Schools that can, should try to latch on to another conference. The MAC literally fetches the drippings of college athletics.
So, I wonder if WMU will be courted by other conferences? I mean, we are academic leaders, especially in our athletics department. What is that worth to other conferences?

Any chance we had to attract interest from other conferences (which was always a long shot regardless) was blown in the last 3.5 years.

There IS no other conference that would be interested in most MAC schools. Look at the landscape around the country. Every time I hear this line of thinking I just roll my eyes. We're in the best place for us right now.

Academics means little to a league looking for a new home, unless you are talking a P5 league that believes it is all that regarding its academics.

It went from 0% to maybe 0.1% with the NY6 bid. Would've taken several more years of dominance in the MAC at a level that we realistically were never going to achieve.

And let's be honest, I love WMU and would recommend it to just about anyone but we don't have a selectiveness or academic profile that "turns heads".

(08-08-2020 05:13 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  In some ways it could be the death of the MAC. What was a feasible conference long ago has over the years seen rising costs, Title IX, declining student enrollment, Covid shutdown, players getting paid now, etc.

Especially if a 2021 season isn't held.

I'd like to think the MAC teams would try to stay together if they had to drop a level or 2, but if it was every man for himself, playing in the GLIAC could be fun, developing rivals w/ GVSU, visiting road games in the UP, National Championship hopes; then maybe someday once we've recovered from the lockdown, we could try D1 again.....

I love D1 FBS, even D1 G5 FBS, but some big changes may be coming.

WHY do you constantly go to DefCon1? The sky is not falling. We're just in uncertain times right now due to the pandemic. The league will be fine over time. Take a breath and chill.

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 05:34 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:59 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  P5 conferences (and perhaps others) will likely try to play; my bet is they don't get far. I think it's a pipe dream to think we'll be "out of the woods" by October.

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

I'm still wondering if they've clarified those Marlins players are/were sick or just tested positive.

(08-08-2020 07:16 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  Funny how I got lambasted for suggesting FCS might be the way to go and now people think the MAC is disbanding and could go for DII. The MAC is the only bus league left in DI. It could drop to FCS but it's not going anywhere.

The thread is more about how WMU should ditch it for a G5 conference that wants to play.
I've been the only one who suggested WMU (and the MAC) dropping to DII is on the table w/ no 2020 and/or no 2021 season.

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 05:34 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:59 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  P5 conferences (and perhaps others) will likely try to play; my bet is they don't get far. I think it's a pipe dream to think we'll be "out of the woods" by October.

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

So someone needs to die or else it doesn't matter?

If your kid was on the WMU football team would you want him playing football right now?

Good column:

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0200808133

(08-08-2020 08:50 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 05:34 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:59 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  P5 conferences (and perhaps others) will likely try to play; my bet is they don't get far. I think it's a pipe dream to think we'll be "out of the woods" by October.

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

So someone needs to die or else it doesn't matter?

If your kid was on the WMU football team would you want him playing football right now?

Isn’t that the point? If no professional athletes die, what was the concern about them playing???

Definitely. Why would I answer otherwise? I’ve been playing sports twice a week the last few months, going to church, going to work, visiting family. My kids have been hanging out with other kids. I hope their football starts soon and they go back to school in two weeks.

Again, I’m a germaphobe that uses game theory to figure how to open bathroom doors. I also follow the numbers and realize my kids are more likely to die driving around in a car. If I’ll risk their lives on the road, I’d certainly not worry about this.

Since Feb. 1, 45 American kids under 15 have died of the coronavirus. 13,088 have died of all other causes. 11,371 Americans under 55 have died of coronavirus, compared to 189,592 of all other causes.

If you wouldn’t let your kid play ball right now, then you shouldn’t let them do anything, if minimizing their risk of death is to be their way of life.

Seriously folks, do you quake in fear every time your kids take car rides?

(08-08-2020 08:50 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 05:34 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:59 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  P5 conferences (and perhaps others) will likely try to play; my bet is they don't get far. I think it's a pipe dream to think we'll be "out of the woods" by October.

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

So someone needs to die or else it doesn't matter?

If your kid was on the WMU football team would you want him playing football right now?

There ought to be at least something which distinguishes covid-19 from seasonal flu. And certainly with young healthy people, those who get it have not only an extremely low fatality rate, but also a very high percentage of completely nonsyptomatic cases out of those who are positive.

Regular seasonal flu makes people very sick too, and to folks who have premorbidity, it, like covid-19, can become the straw that breaks the camel's back and leads to death.

The real distinction between covid-19 and seasonal flu is and election year, opportunity, and politics, combined with years of disintegration of Americans valuing their liberty more than anything else. Instead of "limited" government as our country was designed to have, we have heavy handed controlling government, over people who are too naive to see that they are giving up to goose that lays the golden eggs.

This is ridiculous on steroids.

Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

(08-09-2020 06:51 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

The vast majority want to play. Most of these kids won’t make it to the NFL, and unlike most other sports, will never have a chance to ever play football again for the rest of their lives.

I’m going to make a half-assed prediction here, but this decision is going to cost at least one player’s life (through suicide or drug overdose or a fight gone wrong) while the odds of any dying from the coronavirus is very low. These players’ lives are at greater risk every time they get into their car to drive to practice, or buses to drive to away games.

This is a game where they are already exposing students to a risk of death from heat exhaustion or neck injuries.

(08-09-2020 06:51 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

So since they are legally adults why not give them the option to play or not. They can sign up for military service, put their lives at risk as a policeman
or fireman. How come they are not kids in those instances? I wouldn't have a problem if they chose to
opt out. I really don't think athletes' safety was the overriding issue for the MAC, it was the money and
State implemented policies that differed.

(08-09-2020 07:59 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 06:51 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

So since they are legally adults why not give them the option to play or not. They can sign up for military service, put their lives at risk as a policeman
or fireman. How come they are not kids in those instances? I wouldn't have a problem if they chose to
opt out. I really don't think athletes' safety was the overriding issue for the MAC, it was the money and
State implemented policies that differed.

You're comparing jobs where someone is getting paid to risk their lives to college football where they make no money.

The only reason P5 is going through with a season is due to money. The big schools don't care about the student-athlete. Big Ten makes over $50 million per school annually in TV revenue. A bunch of these kids see through this and have made demands from the conferences or even opted out of the season already.

Why does it hurt to wait? There are at least four vaccines, including one from Moderna, that are in Phase 3 of trials and we will know in 2-3 more months if there is an effective vaccine available.

(08-09-2020 06:22 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 08:50 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 05:34 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:59 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  P5 conferences (and perhaps others) will likely try to play; my bet is they don't get far. I think it's a pipe dream to think we'll be "out of the woods" by October.

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

So someone needs to die or else it doesn't matter?

If your kid was on the WMU football team would you want him playing football right now?

There ought to be at least something which distinguishes covid-19 from seasonal flu. And certainly with young healthy people, those who get it have not only an extremely low fatality rate, but also a very high percentage of completely nonsyptomatic cases out of those who are positive.

Regular seasonal flu makes people very sick too, and to folks who have premorbidity, it, like covid-19, can become the straw that breaks the camel's back and leads to death.

The real distinction between covid-19 and seasonal flu is and election year, opportunity, and politics, combined with years of disintegration of Americans valuing their liberty more than anything else. Instead of "limited" government as our country was designed to have, we have heavy handed controlling government, over people who are too naive to see that they are giving up to goose that lays the golden eggs.

This is ridiculous on steroids.

The worst flu year in the last decade saw 61,000 deaths. COVID is at 165,000 and counting. That "distinguishing" enough for you?

The recruiting effect from fellow conferences going forward will be bad. It sticks out “The MAC schools literally can’t afford to keep you safe”

Yes the P5 schools can afford more testing because they know the pay day they get will cover the costs. Football is no different than any other large class on campus. If they can do social distancing and make sure the kids from the other classes (teams) they meet are healthy before hand there’s nothing wrong.

I wish the MAC had tried and then seen it’s not safe to play ala MLB type outbreak before shutting it down. Since none of these kids are going to die, if it was all about safety they owe it to the stakeholders to try if the kids want to play.

(08-09-2020 08:19 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  The recruiting effect from fellow conferences going forward will be bad. It sticks out “The MAC schools literally can’t afford to keep you safe”

Yes the P5 schools can afford more testing because they know the pay day they get will cover the costs. Football is no different than any other large class on campus. If they can do social distancing and make sure the kids from the other classes (teams) they meet are healthy before hand there’s nothing wrong.

I wish the MAC had tried and then seen it’s not safe to play ala MLB type outbreak before shutting it down. Since none of these kids are going to die, if it was all about safety they owe it to the stakeholders to try if the kids want to play.

This assumes the MAC is the only conference to end up postponing, which is looking unlikely.

(08-09-2020 08:10 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 07:59 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 06:51 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

So since they are legally adults why not give them the option to play or not. They can sign up for military service, put their lives at risk as a policeman
or fireman. How come they are not kids in those instances? I wouldn't have a problem if they chose to
opt out. I really don't think athletes' safety was the overriding issue for the MAC, it was the money and
State implemented policies that differed.

You're comparing jobs where someone is getting paid to risk their lives to college football where they make no money.

The only reason P5 is going through with a season is due to money. The big schools don't care about the student-athlete. Big Ten makes over $50 million per school annually in TV revenue. A bunch of these kids see through this and have made demands from the conferences or even opted out of the season already.

Why does it hurt to wait? There are at least four vaccines, including one from Moderna, that are in Phase 3 of trials and we will know in 2-3 more months if there is an effective vaccine available.

Every day of lockdown equals real devastation. Those vaccines are only “hopefully” going to be 60% effective, with limited safety data, and there won’t be 300 million doses ready in days.

Let’s say the safety risks are as minimal as well-tested vaccines and it’s 50% effective... can we play football then? What if it’s 40% effective? Just what level of risk mitigation are you willing to accept?

I feel like the decision marked the beginning of the folding of the league.

This is not a good situation at all.

(08-09-2020 08:15 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 06:22 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 08:50 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 07:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  [quote='epasnoopy' pid='16936205' dateline='1596926043']

So many baseball games are being canceled due to outbreaks on MLB teams. Only three days into the new shortened season the Marlins had to stop playing for 10 days, now its the Cardinals. Baseball has far less players involved and has players spread out far from each other (except for the catcher and whoever is at-bat) on the field. There's no way college football with over 100 players and all the coaches, trainers, etc. is not going to have outbreaks. You have players tackling and lining up right in front of each other.

How many Marlins have died?

So someone needs to die or else it doesn't matter?

If your kid was on the WMU football team would you want him playing football right now?

There ought to be at least something which distinguishes covid-19 from seasonal flu. And certainly with young healthy people, those who get it have not only an extremely low fatality rate, but also a very high percentage of completely nonsyptomatic cases out of those who are positive.

Regular seasonal flu makes people very sick too, and to folks who have premorbidity, it, like covid-19, can become the straw that breaks the camel's back and leads to death.

The real distinction between covid-19 and seasonal flu is and election year, opportunity, and politics, combined with years of disintegration of Americans valuing their liberty more than anything else. Instead of "limited" government as our country was designed to have, we have heavy handed controlling government, over people who are too naive to see that they are giving up to goose that lays the golden eggs.

This is ridiculous on steroids.

The worst flu year in the last decade saw 61,000 deaths. COVID is at 165,000 and counting. That "distinguishing" enough for you?
[/quote up]

Flu hasn't ever been listed as cause of death. Those are estimations. Flu, like covid-19, is generally just a contributing factor to deaths primarily caused by some other heath failure. If covid-19 was measured like we have done in all years prior, the numbers would be relatively insignificant, much the same as other flu bugs. What actually makes covid-19 easier though, is that the most vulnerable really can be circled and identified. Old and premorbid. D1 athletes don't fall into either category, and are just being used as pawns.

(08-09-2020 10:41 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 08:10 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 07:59 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 06:51 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Considering these are kids who aren't paid i wouldn't want to be an AD or school president who makes the decision for 115 students to go ahead and risk it. Most of these kids won't make it to the NFL. Why put their lives at risk for our entertainment and no pay?

So since they are legally adults why not give them the option to play or not. They can sign up for military service, put their lives at risk as a policeman
or fireman. How come they are not kids in those instances? I wouldn't have a problem if they chose to
opt out. I really don't think athletes' safety was the overriding issue for the MAC, it was the money and
State implemented policies that differed.

You're comparing jobs where someone is getting paid to risk their lives to college football where they make no money.

The only reason P5 is going through with a season is due to money. The big schools don't care about the student-athlete. Big Ten makes over $50 million per school annually in TV revenue. A bunch of these kids see through this and have made demands from the conferences or even opted out of the season already.

Why does it hurt to wait? There are at least four vaccines, including one from Moderna, that are in Phase 3 of trials and we will know in 2-3 more months if there is an effective vaccine available.

Every day of lockdown equals real devastation. Those vaccines are only “hopefully” going to be 60% effective, with limited safety data, and there won’t be 300 million doses ready in days.

Let’s say the safety risks are as minimal as well-tested vaccines and it’s 50% effective... can we play football then? What if it’s 40% effective? Just what level of risk mitigation are you willing to accept?

What devastation will this cause the MAC to not play? Our programs already took financial hits when P5 canceled most of their non-conference schedules. They're going to take further financial hits by playing in front of no or minimal fans and generating little to no GameDay revenue from tickets, concessions, parking, etc.

A 60% effective vaccine is better than no vaccine. Spring football wouldn't be played until March at the earliest. If one of the trial vaccines is successful there will be 4-5 months to get doses ready, not days. If multiple trial vaccines have successful results then you have even more doses that will be available by then.