What fbs conference makes the most sense as far as travel? Your thoughts? I have to go with mac except buffalo being only problem

(08-02-2020 10:33 AM)jaybird44 Wrote:  What fbs conference makes the most sense as far as travel? Your thoughts? I have to go with mac except buffalo being only problem

The MAC is definitely the most compact conference with the exception of Buffalo and NIU. The meat of the MAC is in Ohio.

Ohio U.
Miami (OH)
Akron
Kent
BGSU
Toledo

Then Michigan:

CMU
EMU
WMU

Then you have Indiana, NY, and Illinois

Ball State
NIU
Buffalo

Buffalo is less of an outlier than NIU is, since they are a 5 or so hour drive from the northern Ohio schools and EMU. If there was a large public university in Erie (instead of a Penn St. branch campus) in FBS, they would have bridged the gap.

The Pac-12 and MW make a lot of sense because they're the only FBS programs from the Rockies to the Pacific besides NMSU and BYU. Who else are they supposed to play?

The Big West (all California plus Hawaii( makes a lot of sense. A bunch of those northeastern D1 leagues make a lot of sense: Ivy, Patriot, America East, NEC, and MAAC.

(08-02-2020 05:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  Buffalo is less of an outlier than NIU is

Not true. NIU wins 7-3.

NIU
3:00 WMU
4:15 Ball
4:30 EMU
4:30 Toledo
4:45 BG (4:41)
5:00 CMU
5:15 Miami
6:30 Akron
6:30 Kent
7:15 Ohio

Buffalo
3:30 Akron
3:30 Kent
4:45 EMU
4:45 BG (4:52)
5:00 Toledo
5:45 CMU
6:00 Ohio
6:15 WMU
6:45 Miami
7:15 Ball

(08-02-2020 05:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  Buffalo is less of an outlier than NIU is, since they are a 5 or so hour drive from the northern Ohio schools and EMU. If there was a large public university in Erie (instead of a Penn St. branch campus) in FBS, they would have bridged the gap.

IMO Buffalo is clearly the biggest outlier. First, NIU is closer to its nearest MAC neighbor than Buffalo is to its nearest MAC neighbor.

But more importantly, there are other kinds of distance than just geographical. In the case of conferences, cultural distance is much more important**, and while Illinois is firmly a mid-western state, thus very culturally aligned with the Ohio/Michigan/Indiana core, Buffalo is located in upstate New York, a culturally distinct part of the country.

** E.g., Ole Miss is closer miles-wise to the University of Illinois than it is to the University of South Carolina, but Ole Miss and SC are obviously far closer culturally and are a much better fit in the same conference.

MAC definitely wins for compactness. The SBC and C-USA could learn a thing or two from them about minimizing travel expenses.

You can’t really fault the MWC for their travel. There’s not much you can do about the distance in those big, sparsely populated Western states but the divisional play helps out a lot.

(08-02-2020 06:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  MAC definitely wins for compactness. The SBC and C-USA could learn a thing or two from them about minimizing travel expenses.

Yes, the MAC doesn't have much going for it, but cultural and geographic cohesion is definitely a strong suit.

(08-02-2020 06:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 06:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  MAC definitely wins for compactness. The SBC and C-USA could learn a thing or two from them about minimizing travel expenses.

Yes, the MAC doesn't have much going for it, but cultural and geographic cohesion is definitely a strong suit.

The MAC knows who they are and they don’t go out trying to pursue something grander that is unsustainable considering the resources at their disposal. I generally find them to be a lot of fun but they need to cut down on the weeknight games. No school should have to play more than 1 at home and 1 on the road per season.

The SBC Conference has a smaller footprint than CUSA. The Sunbelt took the best teams it could after being raided multiple times. The Sunbelt doesn't have Idaho, New Mexico, F_U. Their footprint has tightened up. Once you get to a certain distance for bus trips, a plane trip is a plane trip no matter how you look at it.

Calling either Buffalo or NIU an "outlier" really stretches the definition of the word "outler." They're on the extreme ends of the conference and only nine hours apart.

The MAC, no doubt.

(08-02-2020 06:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 05:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  Buffalo is less of an outlier than NIU is, since they are a 5 or so hour drive from the northern Ohio schools and EMU. If there was a large public university in Erie (instead of a Penn St. branch campus) in FBS, they would have bridged the gap.

IMO Buffalo is clearly the biggest outlier. First, NIU is closer to its nearest MAC neighbor than Buffalo is to its nearest MAC neighbor.

But more importantly, there are other kinds of distance than just geographical. In the case of conferences, cultural distance is much more important**, and while Illinois is firmly a mid-western state, thus very culturally aligned with the Ohio/Michigan/Indiana core, Buffalo is located in upstate New York, a culturally distinct part of the country.

** E.g., Ole Miss is closer miles-wise to the University of Illinois than it is to the University of South Carolina, but Ole Miss and SC are obviously far closer culturally and are a much better fit in the same conference.

Having lived in upstate NY Buffalo is a lot more alike to the great lakes cities like Cleveland than you think and possibly more so than it is to say NYC. Heck Buffalo is closer to those MAC schools than say the schools down in NYC and Long Island.

I'm with Sultan. Having lived in Western NY, it is a distinct place more in line with its fellow Great Lakes cities than places to the east of it that are still in NY like Syracuse,Binghamton and Albany. Plenty to support it (team affiliation, the soda/pop line, etc.)

(08-03-2020 05:46 AM)whittx Wrote:  I'm with Sultan. Having lived in Western NY, it is a distinct place more in line with its fellow Great Lakes cities than places to the east of it that are still in NY like Syracuse,Binghamton and Albany. Plenty to support it (team affiliation, the soda/pop line, etc.)

Yeah, I agree. I grew up and stayed in the Albany area, but my Dad's family is from Niagara Falls. It's different in Western New York, much more like the other Great Lakes cities. They've got the accent and everything. I think Buffalo used to be more culturally linked to NYC in the 20th century, but it's been fading with the railroads. Being in a Midwestern conference is fine for UB. I'm sure they'd look into something more like The American if it works out, but they're not pining to join CAA Football just to get onto the East Coast.

(08-02-2020 08:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 06:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 06:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  MAC definitely wins for compactness. The SBC and C-USA could learn a thing or two from them about minimizing travel expenses.

Yes, the MAC doesn't have much going for it, but cultural and geographic cohesion is definitely a strong suit.

The MAC knows who they are and they don’t go out trying to pursue something grander that is unsustainable considering the resources at their disposal. I generally find them to be a lot of fun but they need to cut down on the weeknight games. No school should have to play more than 1 at home and 1 on the road per season.

IMO, their large and growing operating deficits and the need to fund them with subsidies - at least among several members - is an existential threat to the MAC. Which would be a shame because like you, I enjoy MAC football.

(08-03-2020 12:07 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 06:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-02-2020 05:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  Buffalo is less of an outlier than NIU is, since they are a 5 or so hour drive from the northern Ohio schools and EMU. If there was a large public university in Erie (instead of a Penn St. branch campus) in FBS, they would have bridged the gap.

IMO Buffalo is clearly the biggest outlier. First, NIU is closer to its nearest MAC neighbor than Buffalo is to its nearest MAC neighbor.

But more importantly, there are other kinds of distance than just geographical. In the case of conferences, cultural distance is much more important**, and while Illinois is firmly a mid-western state, thus very culturally aligned with the Ohio/Michigan/Indiana core, Buffalo is located in upstate New York, a culturally distinct part of the country.

** E.g., Ole Miss is closer miles-wise to the University of Illinois than it is to the University of South Carolina, but Ole Miss and SC are obviously far closer culturally and are a much better fit in the same conference.

Having lived in upstate NY Buffalo is a lot more alike to the great lakes cities like Cleveland than you think and possibly more so than it is to say NYC. Heck Buffalo is closer to those MAC schools than say the schools down in NYC and Long Island.

I can buy that. And as someone else noted, at just 200 miles from their nearest MAC mate, it's a stretch to call Buffalo a real outlier in geographic terms.

Still, I stand by my claim that Buffalo is the most-outlier of any of the MAC schools, moreso than NIU.

I grew up in northeastern Ohio and due to the line of work my family was in had a lot of dealings in northwest Pennsylvania and western NY. There are a lot of similarities but also some start differences. for one, the 3 states all have very different alcohol sales laws.

PAC 12