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Poll: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
This poll is closed.
Less than 8 0% 0 0%
8 6.12% 3 6.12%
9 8.16% 4 8.16%
10 32.65% 16 32.65%
11 12.24% 6 12.24%
12 26.53% 13 26.53%
13 0% 0 0%
14 6.12% 3 6.12%
15 2.04% 1 2.04%
16 4.08% 2 4.08%
More than 16 2.04% 1 2.04%
Total 49 vote(s) 100%
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What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
12 teams

Allows for steady schedule for each school; 5 to 8 conference games. And allows for divisional championship plus conference championship games.
07-30-2020 07:32 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
I like 9. In FB, play everyone and top 2 teams play in the CCG.

In bb, you have 16 games plus you could then go to three pods of three like CUSA did to get to 18 conference games.
07-30-2020 10:21 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-30-2020 04:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  10 for P5 conferences. Round robin in football, double round robin in basketball, split the revenue 10 ways instead of more. The Big "12" has the right number; the Big "Ten" has too many. Math can be so confusing. 07-coffee3

For non-P5 conferences, I'll say 12 because non-P5 programs are likely to have fewer sports on average, and having a couple more schools makes it more likely the conference will have at least 6 (that's the minimum for almost every sport) for every sport the conference sponsors. Any conference would still be fine with 10, it's just that 12 makes things easier for some of the "Olympic" sports.

This is completely backwards IMO.

The P5 has conferences with 14, 15 members in it since they include land grants with huge alumni bases and statewide support. Going even bigger like 16 or 18 to consolidate to a P4 makes a lot of sense to further corner the market.

G5's on the other hand are splitting CFP money too thin if beyond 10 members. There is only a marketplace for the top 3-4 programs at the national level in a G5 at any one time so the extra programs just drag things down.

However in Olympic sports it can make sense for a G5 to grow to 16 or 18 if they can corner the market for their region like the MWC adding Gonzaga or the AAC picking off St. Louis and Dayton. That is how you make things easier for Olympic sports without watering down FB.
07-30-2020 10:53 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
JRsec answered this question, clearly and succinctly. The correct number of schools are those which maximize the per school revenue for a given conference.

For one conference that might be 7 schools for another 15 or even 16. It all depends upon specific situation and revenue model.

The Big XII is at 10 because CBS and ESPN told them that adding any school currently available would reduce the per school payou

The Big Ten is at 14 because Nebraska * (#12) added a lucrative CCG, while Maryland and Rutgers (#13 & #14) added more households to BTN than they would take in distributions. (The CCG was important because it worked for the SEC, their big rival)

The SEC is at 14 because Texas A&M * and Missouri also expanded their SECtv revenue more than those two would take in distributions

The Pac-12 is at 12 because Colorado * (#11) and Utah (#12) allowed a CCG and the launching of theP12N.

The ACC is at 14 (or 15 if you count Notre Dame) because ESPN told them to take Pitt, Syracuse and BC, and later Louisville to replace Maryland. In effect they did it to protect their media contract.

The Big East is at 11 because UConn increased the TV payout more they they cost (21% more inventory for Fox, 10% more cost)

The American is staying at 11, and even asked for a waiver, because no school available adds anywhere near as much as they would cost to be a member. All candidates are net negatives. (Or the AAC package is a net negative for the schools offered in the case of the MWC members and BYU)

* Note: Nebraska, Texas A&M and Colorado were strong cultural fits with their new conferences as "final" destinations, which helped.


The perfect number varies for each of those conferences. It is highly dependent upon the value they bring versus the costs they bring.
07-31-2020 02:45 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #25
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-30-2020 02:40 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  If your name isn't "Ivy League" and you're not a P5, 9 is not enough and 13 is too many.

So, 10, 11, or 12.

Winner, winner...chicken dinner!
07-31-2020 04:23 AM
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The Cats Online
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Post: #26
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
For FCS football, I think the perfect number is 9.

That gives you 8 conference games (4 home, 4 away - you play every conference team every year) and 3 OOC games. Perfect for 1 money game, and the opportunity for 1 or more OOC FCS home games for the schedule.
07-31-2020 06:31 AM
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ccd494 Online
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Post: #27
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
For non-football, one-bid conferences? I want 6 tightly packed, similar schools.

Six schools who all play the same sports, and thus qualify for automatic bids. In basketball, you can play a "double-double" round robin. Two home games against each conference mate, and two away, for a total of 20 games, in a geographically compact area. For sports like soccer, lacrosse, etc. you can play each conference mate once home and once away for a 10 game conference season.

This gives you the best opportunity to make the NCAA tournament: only 5 other teams to finish ahead of. At the lower level of D-I, there's no real money from media rights, but what little trickles in will be divided into a smaller pie. Same for NCAA tournament shares.

Also, think of the rivalries. What better way to engender hate than to see your five biggest rivals four times per year each. Five times if you meet in the conference tourney!
07-31-2020 09:48 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #28
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
I’m inclined to support large conferences because that’s where I see the future heading. 2024 and 2036 will usher this era in.
07-31-2020 10:29 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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Post: #29
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-31-2020 09:48 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  For non-football, one-bid conferences? I want 6 tightly packed, similar schools.

Six schools who all play the same sports, and thus qualify for automatic bids. In basketball, you can play a "double-double" round robin. Two home games against each conference mate, and two away, for a total of 20 games, in a geographically compact area. For sports like soccer, lacrosse, etc. you can play each conference mate once home and once away for a 10 game conference season.

This gives you the best opportunity to make the NCAA tournament: only 5 other teams to finish ahead of. At the lower level of D-I, there's no real money from media rights, but what little trickles in will be divided into a smaller pie. Same for NCAA tournament shares.

Also, think of the rivalries. What better way to engender hate than to see your five biggest rivals four times per year each. Five times if you meet in the conference tourney!

Six makes a league extremely vulnerable to a raid. If the conference loses just two schools, the remaining four are not going to try to back fill and save the conference. They are going to go into every-school-for-itself mode and try to get into other leagues. In all likelihood, someone is going to be the last school out in musical chairs and be left without a conference.

There is a reason that in July 2021, there will be only four conferences with fewer than ten members. One is the ultra secure Ivy League. Two are the WAC and the MEAC, the two leagues most in danger of going out of business. The other is the ASUN, which is probably okay but has lost more than twice as many members as it currently has.

Conferences not named the Ivy League need to have ten or more members.
07-31-2020 10:42 AM
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Eldonabe Online
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Post: #30
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
For football 10 is good - you can play everyone evenly +3 independents.

Basketball is good with 10 too. H-H with everyone for 18 games then 10-12 independents a year.
07-31-2020 11:13 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
If money weren’t a factor then 9 is ideal

Even home/away in everything and easy to round robin for both FB and basketball
07-31-2020 11:16 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
Throwing out the financial element ... I prefer 14.
07-31-2020 11:57 AM
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ccd494 Online
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Post: #33
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-31-2020 10:42 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-31-2020 09:48 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  For non-football, one-bid conferences? I want 6 tightly packed, similar schools.

Six schools who all play the same sports, and thus qualify for automatic bids. In basketball, you can play a "double-double" round robin. Two home games against each conference mate, and two away, for a total of 20 games, in a geographically compact area. For sports like soccer, lacrosse, etc. you can play each conference mate once home and once away for a 10 game conference season.

This gives you the best opportunity to make the NCAA tournament: only 5 other teams to finish ahead of. At the lower level of D-I, there's no real money from media rights, but what little trickles in will be divided into a smaller pie. Same for NCAA tournament shares.

Also, think of the rivalries. What better way to engender hate than to see your five biggest rivals four times per year each. Five times if you meet in the conference tourney!

Six makes a league extremely vulnerable to a raid. If the conference loses just two schools, the remaining four are not going to try to back fill and save the conference. They are going to go into every-school-for-itself mode and try to get into other leagues. In all likelihood, someone is going to be the last school out in musical chairs and be left without a conference.

There is a reason that in July 2021, there will be only four conferences with fewer than ten members. One is the ultra secure Ivy League. Two are the WAC and the MEAC, the two leagues most in danger of going out of business. The other is the ASUN, which is probably okay but has lost more than twice as many members as it currently has.

Conferences not named the Ivy League need to have ten or more members.

I'm not that worried about "raids." I think the P5 is closed- why share the football playoff money with more teams? I think the upper level G5, with no move-ups to the P5, will similarly close ranks and protect their smaller share of the CFP money. That in turn bottlenecks the top of the FCS. Which, in turn, does not need to grab smaller FCS schools to fill their needs.

Regardless, there are plenty of D-II schools around that could move up within the window. I stand by 6.
07-31-2020 01:22 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #34
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
I thought 12 was ideal.
07-31-2020 01:43 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #35
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
11 members is ideal.

Conferences should always be an odd number to allow equal number of home and away games.

Divisions are a no-no. All schedules are not equal. CCG are often repeat games.

All schools should play each other very year in football and twice in basketball.
07-31-2020 02:19 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-31-2020 09:48 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  For non-football, one-bid conferences? I want 6 tightly packed, similar schools.

Six schools who all play the same sports, and thus qualify for automatic bids. In basketball, you can play a "double-double" round robin. Two home games against each conference mate, and two away, for a total of 20 games, in a geographically compact area. For sports like soccer, lacrosse, etc. you can play each conference mate once home and once away for a 10 game conference season.

This gives you the best opportunity to make the NCAA tournament: only 5 other teams to finish ahead of. At the lower level of D-I, there's no real money from media rights, but what little trickles in will be divided into a smaller pie. Same for NCAA tournament shares.

Also, think of the rivalries. What better way to engender hate than to see your five biggest rivals four times per year each. Five times if you meet in the conference tourney!

I realize this is your ideal, but current NCAA rules stipulate at least 7 basketball members.
07-31-2020 02:32 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #37
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
(07-31-2020 02:19 PM)texoma Wrote:  11 members is ideal.

Conferences should always be an odd number to allow equal number of home and away games.

Divisions are a no-no. All schedules are not equal. CCG are often repeat games.

All schools should play each other very year in football and twice in basketball.

03-thumbsup
07-31-2020 04:57 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
If we were comparing widgets you might have an ideal size. In this case there are only 60-72 schools that can be aligned in a combination that is satisfactory to a subset of members ranging from 8-18. The ACC, SEC, and B10 can go to 18 with the right combination of schools. However all three can not go to 18. Past 15, all you really have is two or three conferences wedged together.
08-02-2020 05:46 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #39
RE: What do you think is the ideal conference size, and why?
In a perfectly retrofitted world you would have:

ACC 14

ND, Pitt, PSU, MD, VT, NCSU, WF - North
Miami, GT, FSU, Clemson, Uva, UNC, Duke - South

SEC 16

Florida, Georgia, SC, Auburn, TN, KY, Vandy, Alabama - East
TT, Texas, TAMU, Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas - West

B10 16

BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Illinois - East
Mizzou, Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisky, NW, Michigan State - West

American 16

Army, WVa, Cincy, Louis, ISU, Temple, ECU, KSU - Land
Navy, Tulane, Houston, TCU, SMU, USF, UCF, Memphis - Sea
08-02-2020 06:10 PM
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