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Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

When considering the media deal for NBC, CFP money, bowl money, their share of the ACC media money for basketball and Olympic sports, NCAAT credits etc it is about even.

(07-30-2020 07:27 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

When considering the media deal for NBC, CFP money, bowl money, their share of the ACC media money for basketball and Olympic sports, NCAAT credits etc it is about even.

As far as I can tell, they have independence in football for tradition's sake alone. They have so many rivals (probably because they're Catholic) that they need independence to keep those rivalries up. Can't schedule Navy, USC, Stanford, Michigan State, Michigan, etc. in a conference...although the ACC is the natural choice with all of their history with schools like BC, UNC, FSU, Miami, Pitt, and GT.

I would have always thought Notre Dame would gravitate towards the Big Ten (better geography, games against Purdue (Notre Dame's 3rd most frequent opponent), Michigan State (4th), Northwestern (7th), Michigan (9th), Indiana (11th), Iowa (12th), Penn State (17th), Nebraska (19th), Wisconsin (19th) and Illinois (22nd).

They could then still work in their other frequent opponents such as Navy (#1 most frequent), Southern Cal (2nd), Pittsburgh (5th) and Army (6th).

(07-30-2020 07:57 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:27 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

When considering the media deal for NBC, CFP money, bowl money, their share of the ACC media money for basketball and Olympic sports, NCAAT credits etc it is about even.

As far as I can tell, they have independence in football for tradition's sake alone. They have so many rivals (probably because they're Catholic) that they need independence to keep those rivalries up. Can't schedule Navy, USC, Stanford, Michigan State, Michigan, etc. in a conference...although the ACC is the natural choice with all of their history with schools like BC, UNC, FSU, Miami, Pitt, and GT.

Bolded, my feeling too. It's not like Notre Dame is winning national championships regularly. Arguably, I'd be surprised if they ever win one again. But their tradition of playing those schools listed here means a lot to their alumni and fanbase (and NBC of course).

An ACC schedule would limit the school's ability to maintain those "rivalries" so I agree this is simply a move of convenience for what is now a shrinking college football season. And I'm still only about 40% confident the season happens at all, so ND may simply be hedging its bet in case a shortened season happens.

Finally, I think most here are in agreement that the ACC is UC's preferred landing spot and with U of L, Pitt, and some scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame for games periodically. It's a dream scenario. UC has substantially improved its profile and facilities since Louisville accepted its invitation. Contrary to what ACC message board chatter might suggest, UC would be at or near the top of any ACC potential expansion list, bringing a top 25 caliber football program, extending the ACC footprint into talent rich Ohio, and adding a historically elite basketball program with first class facilities.

But make no mistake, any ACC expansion will be football driven, so that ship has sailed for UCONN. And the two Florida ACC schools won't want UCF or USF elevated to the P5 for head to head recruiting battles on their home turf. Temple? Possible, but unlikely in my mind. No on-campus stadium, always lots of empty seats downtown, and while basketball has a rich history, I don't see the attendance, on court performance the past decade, or facilities that shout P5 ready.

(07-30-2020 08:20 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I would have always thought Notre Dame would gravitate towards the Big Ten (better geography, games against Purdue (Notre Dame's 3rd most frequent opponent), Michigan State (4th), Northwestern (7th), Michigan (9th), Indiana (11th), Iowa (12th), Penn State (17th), Nebraska (19th), Wisconsin (19th) and Illinois (22nd).

They could then still work in their other frequent opponents such as Navy (#1 most frequent), Southern Cal (2nd), Pittsburgh (5th) and Army (6th).

I actually think the geography is a hindrance. ND values being a national brand; while the B10 has expanded I still think it's considered a midwestern conference. I actually think the ACC's footprint along the entire east coast would be more valuable to their branding.

(07-30-2020 08:41 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 08:20 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I would have always thought Notre Dame would gravitate towards the Big Ten (better geography, games against Purdue (Notre Dame's 3rd most frequent opponent), Michigan State (4th), Northwestern (7th), Michigan (9th), Indiana (11th), Iowa (12th), Penn State (17th), Nebraska (19th), Wisconsin (19th) and Illinois (22nd).

They could then still work in their other frequent opponents such as Navy (#1 most frequent), Southern Cal (2nd), Pittsburgh (5th) and Army (6th).

I actually think the geography is a hindrance. ND values being a national brand; while the B10 has expanded I still think it's considered a midwestern conference. I actually think the ACC's footprint along the entire east coast would be more valuable to their branding.

I agree. And while there have been regularly scheduled games against B10 schools I seem to recall some bad blood between Notre Dame and the conference itself.

You'd never hear a Notre Dame fan say it, but I think they'd take their lumps facing the likes of OSU, Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, and Iowa on an annual basis and would be much less likely to be in the CFP conversation.

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

Insiders think it is $22M per year from what I read

I have no inside info on this ND situation. However, the traditional guys are aging out. I really think ND will use this year as a try out (if it happens). Remember, ND has been in the ACC for 7 years now. There is some culture there.

I don't see Temple as a threat. Sure they kinda bring Philly and bridge between BC/Cuse and the South but the campus is not in a great location and Cincy brings a much better overall program. Your facilities are so much better.

Finally, if ND ever goes all in they will probably have a huge input as who 16 will be.

BL: realignment is a thing again

(07-29-2020 10:13 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  This is nothing more than a temporary fix for that spoiled school. The minute this is over they’re going back to independent. It’s amazing the special accommodations that are made for that institution.

They will be eligible for the ACC Championship game. So in essence, they could step in for one year, become the ACC Champ, collect their trophy and paycheck, take the ACC bowl spot in the Orange Bowl, then leave them high and dry the following year. Meanwhile they will also go down in the ACC/NCAA history record books as ACC Champions.

Does someone at ND have secret video of John Swofford visiting the same massage parlor Bob Kraft went to??

At least the ACC does get a piece of that NBC money that's been exclusive to ND. So there's that.

(07-30-2020 08:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

Insiders think it is $22M per year from what I read

I have no inside info on this ND situation. However, the traditional guys are aging out. I really think ND will use this year as a try out (if it happens). Remember, ND has been in the ACC for 7 years now. There is some culture there.

I don't see Temple as a threat. Sure they kinda bring Philly and bridge between BC/Cuse and the South but the campus is not in a great location and Cincy brings a much better overall program. Your facilities are so much better.

Finally, if ND ever goes all in they will probably have a huge input as who 16 will be.

BL: realignment is a thing again

That would probably make UC less likely IMO.

(07-30-2020 09:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 08:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

Insiders think it is $22M per year from what I read

I have no inside info on this ND situation. However, the traditional guys are aging out. I really think ND will use this year as a try out (if it happens). Remember, ND has been in the ACC for 7 years now. There is some culture there.

I don't see Temple as a threat. Sure they kinda bring Philly and bridge between BC/Cuse and the South but the campus is not in a great location and Cincy brings a much better overall program. Your facilities are so much better.

Finally, if ND ever goes all in they will probably have a huge input as who 16 will be.

BL: realignment is a thing again

That would probably make UC less likely IMO.

Why do you say that?

(07-30-2020 09:55 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 09:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 08:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

Insiders think it is $22M per year from what I read

I have no inside info on this ND situation. However, the traditional guys are aging out. I really think ND will use this year as a try out (if it happens). Remember, ND has been in the ACC for 7 years now. There is some culture there.

I don't see Temple as a threat. Sure they kinda bring Philly and bridge between BC/Cuse and the South but the campus is not in a great location and Cincy brings a much better overall program. Your facilities are so much better.

Finally, if ND ever goes all in they will probably have a huge input as who 16 will be.

BL: realignment is a thing again

That would probably make UC less likely IMO.

Why do you say that?

We have a non-existent relationship with them. Only football game (minus the game that MIGHT happen in the future) was held in 1900, and basketball was only due to conference affiliation...we haven't had them on the schedule on nearly any Olympic sports outside of the Big East affiliation, and we're an Urban public school.

(07-29-2020 10:13 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  This is nothing more than a temporary fix for that spoiled school. The minute this is over they’re going back to independent. It’s amazing the special accommodations that are made for that institution.

Let hope they get used to the money and like it

(07-30-2020 10:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 09:55 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 09:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 08:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 07:10 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Question for those more up-to-speed on this subject than me:

Does Notre Dame make more money as an independent in football than the ACC pays to it member schools? I seem to recall the ND TV deal being worth something in the range of $15M per year but the ACC distributes significantly higher revenue to its schools than that.

Insiders think it is $22M per year from what I read

I have no inside info on this ND situation. However, the traditional guys are aging out. I really think ND will use this year as a try out (if it happens). Remember, ND has been in the ACC for 7 years now. There is some culture there.

I don't see Temple as a threat. Sure they kinda bring Philly and bridge between BC/Cuse and the South but the campus is not in a great location and Cincy brings a much better overall program. Your facilities are so much better.

Finally, if ND ever goes all in they will probably have a huge input as who 16 will be.

BL: realignment is a thing again

That would probably make UC less likely IMO.

Why do you say that?

We have a non-existent relationship with them. Only football game (minus the game that MIGHT happen in the future) was held in 1900, and basketball was only due to conference affiliation...we haven't had them on the schedule on nearly any Olympic sports outside of the Big East affiliation, and we're an Urban public school.

We were good enough for them to steal our football coach.

Who are they going to take? USC is already in a P5 conference.

(07-30-2020 10:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  We have a non-existent relationship with them. Only football game (minus the game that MIGHT happen in the future) was held in 1900, and basketball was only due to conference affiliation...we haven't had them on the schedule on nearly any Olympic sports outside of the Big East affiliation, and we're an Urban public school.

? That game is slated for next year. Unless it's covid-related, a cancellation this late would be pretty weird.

I get the tradition thing with Notre Dame, but would it really be the end of the world if they played their rivals every other year? They could alternate like this:

Year 1: Stanford, Navy, Big Ten opponent, random buy game
Year 2: USC, Army/Air Force, Big Ten opponent, random buy game

Every now and then, they can substitute the Big Ten opponent with a blue blood from one of the other conferences like they've done with Georgia and Texas in recent years. And they'll play plenty of other rivals like Pitt, Georgia Tech, Miami, BC, etc with an ACC schedule.

NBC still has their game rights to a minimum of 7 home games a year under the current extension through 2025.

ESPN and the ACC Network have a 20 year partnership for ACC game rights. Nothing will happen until NBC is out of the picture...which is doubtful at best.

(07-30-2020 10:59 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  NBC still has their game rights to a minimum of 7 home games a year under the current extension through 2025.

ESPN and the ACC Network have a 20 year partnership for ACC game rights. Nothing will happen until NBC is out of the picture...which is doubtful at best.

Yeah, if they sniff a chance that ND would jump, they'll just add another $10M/year on. They can't lose that property, otherwise no one in America would turn NBC on until 8pm on Sunday in every weekend in the fall.

(07-30-2020 11:11 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-30-2020 10:59 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  NBC still has their game rights to a minimum of 7 home games a year under the current extension through 2025.

ESPN and the ACC Network have a 20 year partnership for ACC game rights. Nothing will happen until NBC is out of the picture...which is doubtful at best.

Yeah, if they sniff a chance that ND would jump, they'll just add another $10M/year on. They can't lose that property, otherwise no one in America would turn NBC on until 8pm on Sunday in every weekend in the fall.

Premier League does pretty good, no?

They drew 2.2 million for the Premier championship last year.

Notre dame football matches that against MAC teams in buy games.

They pulled 8 million for the Michigan Game.

NBC is not walking away from exclusive home game rights to the domers.