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Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
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STL_Wave Offline
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Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
Very interesting study from Scott Galloway, a New York University marketing professor. Read here

According to the Boston Business Journal, experts have predicted 10% to 20% of U.S. higher education institutions may be forced to close permanently within the next 12 months. How will it impact sports?


Thrive
- Tulane 02-13-banana
- Cincinnati
- ECU
- SMU

Survive
- UCF
- Houston
- Memphis
- USF
- Temple

Struggle
- Tulsa

Not included in study
- Navy
- Witchita State
07-28-2020 01:39 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)
07-28-2020 06:35 AM
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STL_Wave Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years
07-28-2020 07:54 AM
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ArmoredUpKnight Online
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone asking the Marketing guy questions about Operations and Finance.
07-28-2020 08:22 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.
07-28-2020 08:45 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

I think he meant that the economic reverberations would be felt for a long time. Almost certainly correct when damned near half of American renters are facing eviction per CNBC.
07-28-2020 09:06 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 09:06 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

I think he meant that the economic reverberations would be felt for a long time. Almost certainly correct when damned near half of American renters are facing eviction per CNBC.

I wonder what the rate of real money tuition paying parents sending their children to Tulsa ... rent. Then what percentage of that microscopic group are being evicted.
07-28-2020 09:11 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

Right, I'm having a hard time seeing how this affects money coming in to Tulsa any differently than it would to any other school. A billion-dollar endowment allows you to weather three or four months I would think. If not, a lot of schools are in trouble including every school in the AAC.
07-28-2020 09:13 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 09:13 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

Right, I'm having a hard time seeing how this affects money coming in to Tulsa any differently than it would to any other school. A billion-dollar endowment allows you to weather three or four months I would think. If not, a lot of schools are in trouble including every school in the AAC.

Tulsa is already under financial strain. https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/educat...31821.html

They have a very small student population, so a decline in enrollment will hit them hard. Endowment funds can't just be used to plug any hole. Plus the oil industry in Tulsa has taken a tumble, so their donor pot is probably limited at the moment.

Tulsa isn't anywhere close to going bankrupt, but they're also not in a strong position. The school has tumbled in the US News rankings (due to a change in methodology), and they're trying to refocus the entire institution more to STEM to be competitive in the future. They're trying to become the RPI of the plains instead of competing with SMU. At least they recognize they need to change, unlike many institutions that are heading toward failure.
07-28-2020 09:24 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
Right, I had forgotten about Tulsa's enrollment issues and their responding plan to eliminate some liberal arts courses and add more STEM.
07-28-2020 09:40 AM
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BigHouston Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
Surviving program closure and athletic survival are two entirely different subjects.

True under today's conditions some programs nervously could maintain above water but doesn't mean their athletics live to tell it.
07-28-2020 05:04 PM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

WTF is a Wuhan virus and can you name 72 genders? Oh wait you are one of "those people ". There's a board for you but this ain't it. 03-phew
07-28-2020 10:37 PM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan
07-29-2020 09:40 AM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.
07-29-2020 09:59 AM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-29-2020 09:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.

Just my opinion... but Tampa and Orlando are way more appealing to me than Gainesville or Tallahassee. Don't know how big of a deal the location is to most recruits, but it is something I would definitely consider if I was in their shoes.
07-29-2020 10:07 AM
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bullsbucsfan426 Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-29-2020 09:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.

(07-29-2020 10:07 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.
That will absolutely happen. FSU has not put the emphasis on academics that USF has. It's only a matter of time we pass them academically. We will probably never catch them again athletically unless the AAC secures an auto-bid to a NY6 bowl (which could happen in the next ten years). As long as sports are competitive at both USF and UCF (I think we can agree that they are) then the attraction of going to a big city school will likely outstrip any desire to go to FSU.
Just my opinion... but Tampa and Orlando are way more appealing to me than Gainesville or Tallahassee. Don't know how big of a deal the location is to most recruits, but it is something I would definitely consider if I was in their shoes.
I think recruits genuinely get sold on all that history, and there is some evidence that the history does sell. USF has individual player history, but we do need to get some team history (conference championships, NY6 wins, etc.). UCF has that, but the academics aren't quite as good to attract students who will focus on high paying jobs.
07-29-2020 10:53 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-29-2020 10:53 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.

(07-29-2020 10:07 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:59 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:40 AM)usffan Wrote:  The general premise here is to bin universities based on two factors, a "value-to-cost" ratio and then a "vulnerability" index that purportedly punishes schools for a "low enrollment." But the problem with the latter is that they evaluate the endowment based on a per-capita basis, which I would argue punishes larger schools since none use their endowment on a per-capita basis. That's how you get schools like USF. with a value-to-cost ratio of 19.31, as merely "survive" while Birmingham Southern, for example, has a value-to-cost ratio of 0.52 but is expected to "thrive."

USFFan

I agree, I don't expect USF or UCF will really struggle. There's waiting lists at both universities. The only immediate threat is a reduction in state funding for a few years. I tend to think we will both thrive, especially if students choose not to relocate to Gainesville and Tallahassee, spend money on apartments, and remain at home in Orlando and Tampa instead.
That will absolutely happen. FSU has not put the emphasis on academics that USF has. It's only a matter of time we pass them academically. We will probably never catch them again athletically unless the AAC secures an auto-bid to a NY6 bowl (which could happen in the next ten years). As long as sports are competitive at both USF and UCF (I think we can agree that they are) then the attraction of going to a big city school will likely outstrip any desire to go to FSU.
Just my opinion... but Tampa and Orlando are way more appealing to me than Gainesville or Tallahassee. Don't know how big of a deal the location is to most recruits, but it is something I would definitely consider if I was in their shoes.
I think recruits genuinely get sold on all that history, and there is some evidence that the history does sell. USF has individual player history, but we do need to get some team history (conference championships, NY6 wins, etc.). UCF has that, but the academics aren't quite as good to attract students who will focus on high paying jobs.

We are really confusing two lines of discussion here. Football recruiting versus regular student recruiting.

Is your last line insinuating that USF students get better jobs than UCF students? Because if so, the BOG metrics show that UCF graduates tend to earn $600 more than USF graduates and $1000 more than FSU graduates in the first year after graduation. UF leads UCF by several thousand, however.
07-29-2020 11:20 AM
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HoustonRocks Offline
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
A more meaningful metric:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersa...r-BB17gU8e
The top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the most in 2020

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ed...442671.php
2 Houston universities rank in top 50 colleges that will pay off the most in 2020
07-29-2020 10:53 PM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-29-2020 10:53 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  A more meaningful metric:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersa...r-BB17gU8e
The top 50 U.S. colleges that pay off the most in 2020

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ed...442671.php
2 Houston universities rank in top 50 colleges that will pay off the most in 2020

This metric isn’t perfect either. These are all incredible institutions, but a lot of places are a bit inflated by the virtue of where they are located. Places like University of Washington and NYU graduates will likely earn more considering they are in high cost of living markets. I recently had to compare different entry level careers post graduation from business, and the pay difference was staggering simply based on location. The cost of living in Seattle is very close to New York surprisingly. Many graduates stay around those regions so that is a contributor. In truth, graduates from similarly regarded institutions will have a very similar quality of life. The numbers will adjust to the market they are living in for the most part if the institutions are comparable and the major is the same
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2020 11:15 PM by IamYourDad.)
07-29-2020 11:12 PM
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RE: Will your school thrive, survive, struggle or perish? A study
(07-28-2020 08:45 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:54 AM)STL_Wave Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 06:35 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Tulsa has an endowment of over 1 billion dollars. There now a few vaccines in Phase 3 trials - both Moderna and Pfizer started separate trials (30,000 people each) yesterday. We're almost certain to have a vaccine in a few months. We're talking about months. I'm pretty sure Tulsa can hang in there:-)

The moment a vaccine is approved doesn't mean life goes back to normal.....there will be ramifications for years

I disagree, 12 to 24 months from now we will have moved on to the next subject. Just like the flu we will ignore Wuhan virus and live our lives. We will be interested in more important things, like the 72 genders that we can't remember nor totally understand.

03-lmfao

More likely about 100 days from now.
07-30-2020 02:11 PM
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