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buy games to decline?
https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

That doesn’t mean there won’t be room for non-conference games on the schedule; there will just be fewer of them—which means fewer ‘buy-game’ opportunities for G5 and FCS schools. AD2 said that the shift in scheduling philosophy will likely result in “fewer teams playing [college football]” (because some won’t be able to survive without the lost revenue). For perspective, 40% of the $7.54 million Louisiana-Monroe (a random low-budget Sun Belt school) generated in 2018 came from guarantee games ($2.8 million)....

AD1 explained how “everything has become so national” and how he “expects schools to consider reverting back to a more regionalized scheduling model [in COVID’s wake].” AD2 agreed, saying if his football team could “get on a bus, it might make more [economic] sense” to spend on a 2-for-1 with a G5 or FCS school (because of the reduced travel costs). Remember, most schools really are not recruiting nationally, so there is little reason (other than perhaps playing in an alumni-rich market) to get on a plane during the non-conference portion of the schedule."
07-26-2020 02:50 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

That doesn’t mean there won’t be room for non-conference games on the schedule; there will just be fewer of them—which means fewer ‘buy-game’ opportunities for G5 and FCS schools. AD2 said that the shift in scheduling philosophy will likely result in “fewer teams playing [college football]” (because some won’t be able to survive without the lost revenue). For perspective, 40% of the $7.54 million Louisiana-Monroe (a random low-budget Sun Belt school) generated in 2018 came from guarantee games ($2.8 million)....

AD1 explained how “everything has become so national” and how he “expects schools to consider reverting back to a more regionalized scheduling model [in COVID’s wake].” AD2 agreed, saying if his football team could “get on a bus, it might make more [economic] sense” to spend on a 2-for-1 with a G5 or FCS school (because of the reduced travel costs). Remember, most schools really are not recruiting nationally, so there is little reason (other than perhaps playing in an alumni-rich market) to get on a plane during the non-conference portion of the schedule."

I believe it. Ark. St.'s AD said payouts have been leveling off for a while now. He actively seeks them out so should have an accurate read on trends.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020 03:42 PM by gulfcoastgal.)
07-26-2020 03:41 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
All those P5 stadiums sitting empty in September - that's a lot of revenue lost for the schools and communities.
07-26-2020 07:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

I don't see this happening in the near term. No team that sees itself as a playoff contender will agree to play 10 conference games while the SEC is playing only 8.

Now if the SEC is the mover on this, everyone else could then be comfortable about matching the SEC with 10 conference games. But I don't see that happening, either, unless the requirement of 6 wins for bowl eligibility is eliminated. SEC teams that are usually under .500 in conference play want to keep open the possibility of getting bowl eligible by winning 3 or 4 non-con games.
07-26-2020 10:15 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

I don't see this happening in the near term. No team that sees itself as a playoff contender will agree to play 10 conference games while the SEC is playing only 8.

Now if the SEC is the mover on this, everyone else could then be comfortable about matching the SEC with 10 conference games. But I don't see that happening, either, unless the requirement of 6 wins for bowl eligibility is eliminated. SEC teams that are usually under .500 in conference play want to keep open the possibility of getting bowl eligible by winning 3 or 4 non-con games.

The SEC will play 9 conference game when it gets paid to. We aren't giving away anything for free. The details haven't been released on the new contract for T1 with ABC/Disney and ESPN's updating of the contract for T2. For the money offered I wouldn't be surprised if that 9th conference game is baked into that raise.

The information should have come out on July 21 when we were to have had the rescheduled Spring Meeting but that one was canceled too. I suspect Sankey will sit on the details until he needs a boost.
07-26-2020 10:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

I don't see this happening in the near term. No team that sees itself as a playoff contender will agree to play 10 conference games while the SEC is playing only 8.

Now if the SEC is the mover on this, everyone else could then be comfortable about matching the SEC with 10 conference games. But I don't see that happening, either, unless the requirement of 6 wins for bowl eligibility is eliminated. SEC teams that are usually under .500 in conference play want to keep open the possibility of getting bowl eligible by winning 3 or 4 non-con games.

The SEC will play 9 conference game when it gets paid to. We aren't giving away anything for free. The details haven't been released on the new contract for T1 with ABC/Disney and ESPN's updating of the contract for T2. For the money offered I wouldn't be surprised if that 9th conference game is baked into that raise.

The information should have come out on July 21 when we were to have had the rescheduled Spring Meeting but that one was canceled too. I suspect Sankey will sit on the details until he needs a boost.

Apparently, Sankey has been running rather than sitting.

07-26-2020 10:35 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

I don't see this happening in the near term. No team that sees itself as a playoff contender will agree to play 10 conference games while the SEC is playing only 8.

Now if the SEC is the mover on this, everyone else could then be comfortable about matching the SEC with 10 conference games. But I don't see that happening, either, unless the requirement of 6 wins for bowl eligibility is eliminated. SEC teams that are usually under .500 in conference play want to keep open the possibility of getting bowl eligible by winning 3 or 4 non-con games.

The SEC will play 9 conference game when it gets paid to. We aren't giving away anything for free. The details haven't been released on the new contract for T1 with ABC/Disney and ESPN's updating of the contract for T2. For the money offered I wouldn't be surprised if that 9th conference game is baked into that raise.

The information should have come out on July 21 when we were to have had the rescheduled Spring Meeting but that one was canceled too. I suspect Sankey will sit on the details until he needs a boost.

Apparently, Sankey has been running rather than sitting.


He's preparing for what he may have to do should he cancel the season.
07-26-2020 10:37 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
Somewhat misleading title. It is less a decline in games and more of a market correction in how much school's and AD's will pay for said games. The G5/FCS price is going to go down and it really will become a seller's/Power 5 market. The demand for the G5/FCS to accept a game and be on TV will be greater than the supply and the price for Power 5 will likely go down as the Power 5 may not put folks through the turnstiles.

Let's not get it twisted, but most AD's have worked from a perspective of annual growth and said growth far beyond the GDP or CPI. Even the FCS schools rarely baseline budget as they assume that TV contracts, the general fund, or donors will bail out their poor decisions. Lots of the G5 ADs came through Power 5s and use their years there only seeing growth as the norm and possess less budgeting skills than most families.
07-26-2020 10:37 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:37 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  Somewhat misleading title. It is less a decline in games and more of a market correction in how much school's and AD's will pay for said games. The G5/FCS price is going to go down and it really will become a seller's/Power 5 market. The demand for the G5/FCS to accept a game and be on TV will be greater than the supply and the price for Power 5 will likely go down as the Power 5 may not put folks through the turnstiles.

Let's not get it twisted, but most AD's have worked from a perspective of annual growth and said growth far beyond the GDP or CPI. Even the FCS schools rarely baseline budget as they assume that TV contracts, the general fund, or donors will bail out their poor decisions. Lots of the G5 ADs came through Power 5s and use their years there only seeing growth as the norm and possess less budgeting skills than most families.

No. The article says (now its only 2 ADs) schools are going to play fewer buy games. It will be one instead of two.
07-26-2020 11:29 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
I also don’t see any reason TV deals increase with more conference games. That actually would tend to reduce the inventory slightly, not increase it.
07-27-2020 08:43 AM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-27-2020 08:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I also don’t see any reason TV deals increase with more conference games. That actually would tend to reduce the inventory slightly, not increase it.

I think the idea is that, on average, a conference game is worth more to TV than an OOC game. That's likely to be true for major conferences like the SEC, where most of the schools have good brand value.

Now sure there are exceptions - Alabama vs Notre Dame has more TV value than Alabama vs Kentucky - but on average, the conference games are likely to be worth more as many OOC games are, well, buy games vs G5 or FCS teams.

I think we all figured out some time ago that these buy games are really just a way for some of the massive P5 media and CFP money to trickle in to the hands of G5 and even FCS schools. And in a meta-sense, the P5 schools (at least their coaches, ADs and other admins) like having G5 and even FCS around to play, so they have an interest in keeping that money flowing in some manner or another, or at least enough of it to keep the G5/FCS programs afloat. Thus, I expect a somewhat downward adjustment in market price for such games, but not their elimination.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 09:17 AM by quo vadis.)
07-27-2020 09:09 AM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

I don't see this happening in the near term. No team that sees itself as a playoff contender will agree to play 10 conference games while the SEC is playing only 8.

Now if the SEC is the mover on this, everyone else could then be comfortable about matching the SEC with 10 conference games. But I don't see that happening, either, unless the requirement of 6 wins for bowl eligibility is eliminated. SEC teams that are usually under .500 in conference play want to keep open the possibility of getting bowl eligible by winning 3 or 4 non-con games.

The top 80 schools in FB need to breakaway and have FB and BB Czars. If they go to something more like the NFL model they could institute spending controls. With basketball and Olympic sports you could expand it out easily to 150 total to have a VG March Madness.

The players want to be pros...let them. The schools can also institute cuts and waivers.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 09:41 AM by TexanMark.)
07-27-2020 09:37 AM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 10:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The SEC will play 9 conference game when it gets paid to. We aren't giving away anything for free. The details haven't been released on the new contract for T1 with ABC/Disney and ESPN's updating of the contract for T2. For the money offered I wouldn't be surprised if that 9th conference game is baked into that raise.

The information should have come out on July 21 when we were to have had the rescheduled Spring Meeting but that one was canceled too. I suspect Sankey will sit on the details until he needs a boost.

I hope that is the case. With 9 plus many baked in rivalry 10th games, mostly ACC, that makes it much easier for others to move to 10. The B1G and Pac-12 are the most likely to move to 10, although I could see the ACC also if that is what it takes to grow their ESPN contract payouts.

The B1G going to 10 is because the fan demand is for conference games.

For the P12 it will be a combination of fan preference, lack of regional opponents outside the P12, and the need for the new TV/media contract to be maximized and close the gap a bit to the B1G and SEC.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 12:01 PM by Stugray2.)
07-27-2020 12:00 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-27-2020 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The SEC will play 9 conference game when it gets paid to. We aren't giving away anything for free. The details haven't been released on the new contract for T1 with ABC/Disney and ESPN's updating of the contract for T2. For the money offered I wouldn't be surprised if that 9th conference game is baked into that raise.

The information should have come out on July 21 when we were to have had the rescheduled Spring Meeting but that one was canceled too. I suspect Sankey will sit on the details until he needs a boost.

I hope that is the case. With 9 plus many baked in rivalry 10th games, mostly ACC, that makes it much easier for others to move to 10. The B1G and Pac-12 are the most likely to move to 10, although I could see the ACC also if that is what it takes to grow their ESPN contract payouts.

The B1G going to 10 is because the fan demand is for conference games.

For the P12 it will be a combination of fan preference, lack of regional opponents outside the P12, and the need for the new TV/media contract to be maximized and close the gap a bit to the B1G and SEC.

Stu, I would be a fan of playing 10 conference games now with 2 upgraded buy games, one for homecoming and frankly one to open the season. We had better football when almost every big school opened with a buy game. It could provide a stunner of an upset, but did permit the coaching staff to see what they actually had and what they had to work on. First games are notoriously mistake laden and hardly reflective of where a team will end. Opening with an Auburn / Clemson or Oregon / Auburn doesn't really tell you what either team has and all of those games were really close and came down to who made one less mistake or made one more play. Those games would be more reflective of strength in the third game of the schedule than the first and they only serve television.

We had much more interest in bowl games prior to the push for OOC scheduling among the P5. The bowl games, all of them, once held the interest of the unknown. Now they are an afterthought to the CFP and key players sit them out.

Face it, no matter what conference you are in your fans would rather see more conference games. I get the Fla/FSU, SoCar/Clemson, and Louisville/UK games to an extent. But Georgia would be far better served if they could play somebody other than Tech. I know Kentucky doesn't love the Louisville game but that has nothing to do with fan interest which is high, but rather a defensive position relative another growing state program.

And I'll say this as well. If rivalries across conference lines were threatened it wouldn't take long for South Carolina to seek admission back into the ACC and for Florida State to seek the SEC. And you know that might not be such a bad thing for the conferences. Auburn / Alabama and Texas / Oklahoma are bonanzas for their conferences because all of the revenue stays in house. And if conferences only played within the conference it would change a lot of things for the better.
07-27-2020 12:15 PM
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46566 Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
Could we see more 2 for 1 games with a lower P5 payout? Maybe LSU playing at Tulane, Louisiana Tech or something. For LSU it wouldn't be that hard of a in state away game. Would P5 schools be okay with a road game to a G5 school?
07-27-2020 12:30 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

That doesn’t mean there won’t be room for non-conference games on the schedule; there will just be fewer of them—which means fewer ‘buy-game’ opportunities for G5 and FCS schools. AD2 said that the shift in scheduling philosophy will likely result in “fewer teams playing [college football]” (because some won’t be able to survive without the lost revenue). For perspective, 40% of the $7.54 million Louisiana-Monroe (a random low-budget Sun Belt school) generated in 2018 came from guarantee games ($2.8 million)....

AD1 explained how “everything has become so national” and how he “expects schools to consider reverting back to a more regionalized scheduling model [in COVID’s wake].” AD2 agreed, saying if his football team could “get on a bus, it might make more [economic] sense” to spend on a 2-for-1 with a G5 or FCS school (because of the reduced travel costs). Remember, most schools really are not recruiting nationally, so there is little reason (other than perhaps playing in an alumni-rich market) to get on a plane during the non-conference portion of the schedule."

Interesting. i would think that change would lead to the G5s getting a larger percentage of the bowl bids.
07-27-2020 01:31 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-27-2020 12:30 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could we see more 2 for 1 games with a lower P5 payout? Maybe LSU playing at Tulane, Louisiana Tech or something. For LSU it wouldn't be that hard of a in state away game. Would P5 schools be okay with a road game to a G5 school?

P5s play road games at G5s under the right circumstances. Some are driven by finances, others by proximity and marketing to fan bases.

LSU used to play home and home and 2 for 1 with Tulane. Tulane is their most historic rival, though the two programs have drifted apart in the last 30-40 years. They last played in New Orleans in 2007. If they played in New Orleans, though, it would have to be at the Superdome, as Tulane's new stadium would be too small. It wouldn't be a stretch at all for them to play Tulane at the Superdome. LSU playing an away game at another Louisiana school?? Not so much. LSU would see that as a step down. While on the subject of LSU vs G5s, they have a game at Rice scheduled this fall, though the game is at NRG Stadium and not on campus.

Texas plays 2-for-1s with Rice. The most recent Rice home game with Texas was played last year at NRG Stadium.

Oklahoma and Oklahoma State both play games at Tulsa in their 30,000 seat on-campus stadium. OU plays 2-for-1s with them, while OSU is in the middle of a 2 and 2. It's an easy road trip and a probable win for the P5, and it's a season ticket cornerstone for the G5.

There are other examples of and reasons for P5s playing games in a G5 stadium.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 01:52 PM by johnintx.)
07-27-2020 01:49 PM
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buy games to decline?
ESPN asking for better programming.


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07-27-2020 07:44 PM
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-27-2020 01:49 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:30 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could we see more 2 for 1 games with a lower P5 payout? Maybe LSU playing at Tulane, Louisiana Tech or something. For LSU it wouldn't be that hard of a in state away game. Would P5 schools be okay with a road game to a G5 school?

P5s play road games at G5s under the right circumstances. Some are driven by finances, others by proximity and marketing to fan bases.

LSU used to play home and home and 2 for 1 with Tulane. Tulane is their most historic rival, though the two programs have drifted apart in the last 30-40 years. They last played in New Orleans in 2007. If they played in New Orleans, though, it would have to be at the Superdome, as Tulane's new stadium would be too small. It wouldn't be a stretch at all for them to play Tulane at the Superdome. LSU playing an away game at another Louisiana school?? Not so much. LSU would see that as a step down. While on the subject of LSU vs G5s, they have a game at Rice scheduled this fall, though the game is at NRG Stadium and not on campus.

Texas plays 2-for-1s with Rice. The most recent Rice home game with Texas was played last year at NRG Stadium.

Oklahoma and Oklahoma State both play games at Tulsa in their 30,000 seat on-campus stadium. OU plays 2-for-1s with them, while OSU is in the middle of a 2 and 2. It's an easy road trip and a probable win for the P5, and it's a season ticket cornerstone for the G5.

There are other examples of and reasons for P5s playing games in a G5 stadium.


Pretty close on Tulsa. We and OSU have always been rivals and played home and homes till the 2000s. This is the end of the last 2-1 we have played amid a lot of fighting over the last fifteen years. We now have a 4-4 with them.

OU is a little different we usually play them three times a decade and traditionally it is a 2-1.

Arkansas and Tulsa have a long history of forcing the other team to play decades sometimes at one location. In 2027 the first in seven decades Arkansas will return to Tulsa in a 2-1. This may be the last series in that 70+ game series that is one of the oldest for both schools if a home and home can not be worked out.

All schools are within a 110 miles of Tulsa and historically played. The stadium was not always 30k and in the 90s we hosted Iowa, Miami, and Texas AnM.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 09:02 PM by Foreverandever.)
07-27-2020 08:57 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: buy games to decline?
(07-27-2020 01:31 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.sportico.com/2020/leagues/co...234609788/

Found this link below the article in the link in the ESPN revenue thread.

"...Simply put, the money is too great for the P5 schools not to replace a non-conference game with an extra conference game or two. More conference games equate to more television revenue.

That doesn’t mean there won’t be room for non-conference games on the schedule; there will just be fewer of them—which means fewer ‘buy-game’ opportunities for G5 and FCS schools. AD2 said that the shift in scheduling philosophy will likely result in “fewer teams playing [college football]” (because some won’t be able to survive without the lost revenue). For perspective, 40% of the $7.54 million Louisiana-Monroe (a random low-budget Sun Belt school) generated in 2018 came from guarantee games ($2.8 million)....

AD1 explained how “everything has become so national” and how he “expects schools to consider reverting back to a more regionalized scheduling model [in COVID’s wake].” AD2 agreed, saying if his football team could “get on a bus, it might make more [economic] sense” to spend on a 2-for-1 with a G5 or FCS school (because of the reduced travel costs). Remember, most schools really are not recruiting nationally, so there is little reason (other than perhaps playing in an alumni-rich market) to get on a plane during the non-conference portion of the schedule."

Interesting. i would think that change would lead to the G5s getting a larger percentage of the bowl bids.

It would, if P5 conferences played 10 conference games and if teams still had to win 6 games to be bowl eligible.

On the other hand, if lower-tier bowl games really wanted to have 5-7 Big Ten teams instead of 7-5 MAC teams, they would push for the elimination of the 6-win requirement.
07-27-2020 09:51 PM
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