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What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

Yes. It positively astounds me that people are arguing that the Big East had "negative" football brand value. That's absurd. I don't know any measure by which their argument holds water.
07-29-2020 10:00 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value
07-29-2020 10:00 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.
07-29-2020 10:12 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #64
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

I’d have to look at the specifics but those three kicked a lot of the money to the AAC. I want to say they only got 60% of it.
07-29-2020 10:21 AM
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Post: #65
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 09:25 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 07:41 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 11:35 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 10:39 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 05:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  The entire premise of this entire thread rests on the idea that ACC expansion to 14 was inevitable. It wasn't. It was engineered by ESPN (per the BC president) to punish the Big East for going to the open market.

There's all sorts of scenarios that could play out (maybe the Big 12 goes back to 12 if they can get WVU + Pitt + UL together). Who knows, the most likely result is that WVU, Pitt, and UL are still in the Big East, with Syracuse having gone to the ACC to replace Maryland. I very much doubt the Big East with those three plus potentially TCU, UCF, and Houston, would have lost AQ/Power status.

One thing that we have to keep in mind is that the first and most major step in securing AQ status is being aligned as an anchor with a major bowl (Fiesta, Sugar, Orange, Rose). Without that there is no AQ status. The BE did not have an agreement to anchor any major bowl during the last BCS era. There was an arrangement for the BE to have a roving opportunity to play in the major bowls, except the Rose Bowl, depending on how the other bowl choices worked out each season.

While setting up the current P5 system, there was not going to be any more major revolving bowl opportunities. Thus went the BE AQ status opportunity. You needed multiple current and unquestionable football powers that attract tv eyeballs and or fb powers with a history of traveling well for a major bowl to take a chance on giving anchor status to a conference. It was not a foregone conclusion that even the ACC, with the likes of Clemson, FSU, Miami and VT, would be an anchor to the Orange Bowl. I remember that whole Orange Bowl deal signing with the ACC well, because SU and Pitt had accepted an invitation to the ACC, and I was thinking that if the ACC didnt re-up with the OBowl, SU would have left one conference that lost AQ/BCS status to go to another that lost AQ status.

So even with the new additions, it doesnt seem likely that the BE would have gained AQ status

If ESPN wanted the Big East to be part of a Power 6, they would have been. The Peach Bowl or another bowl would have become the anchor bowl. The Gator Bowl was willing for years to become the Big East anchor in the BCS, and I'd bet the Citrus Bowl would have taken that deal to become a NY6(7) bowl as well.

Under the above scenario, the Big East would have retained several of their brands and added some strong football programs in large markets. It all depends on how ESPN chose to value the conference and their prospects for supporting a major bowl game.

Ok...so much wrong with your facts and premises. BUT...

1) It was the Boston College ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, Gene DiFillippo who "admitted" (said) that it was ESPN who told the ACC "what to do," NOT the BC president. (It was, however, the BC President who referred to UC as a "City College".)

2) The Big East had ALREADY lost its marquee bowl--the Fed-Ex, then Nokia--Orange Bowl...AND its second, major Bowl, the Gator Bowl...BEFORE the conference fell apart. That was with the "brands" of Pitt, Syracuse, AND the conference heavy: WVU. There is ZERO reason to think that a "BE" shorn of its major brands...especially the ND tie-in...would "attract" a "major bowl." None.

3) Let's remember why Notre Dame was included in the BE under the terms they were: BOWL ACCESS. With no ND tie-in, none of the bowls...even the bowls the BE created (Tire/Meineke/Belk and Pin Stripe)...wanted the BE tie-in.

4) The BE name had NO equity in the FB realm...actually it was a liability. That's why we sold it to the NBE.

You're completely in fantasy land. (Pun intended.)

1. Sorry my memory has failed me on a quote from 10 years ago. It changes not one thing about what I've argued in this thread.
2. No one has disputed that the Big East lost the Orange Bowl as an anchor. I never said anything to the effect. Rather, I said that if ESPN had wanted to maintain the Big East as part of the P6 in the CFP/contract bowl era, they would have arranged a contract bowl, whether it was the Peach or adding another bowl to create a NY7 (Gator, Citrus, etc.). The Gator Bowl was quite interesting in joining the BCS, and post-2005, they offered to be the Big East anchor bowl in order to achieve that. So there was interest from a major bowl game.
3. No one has disputed this, but likely a P6 Big East would have retained at least some of the bowls, but that also depends on which teams are in this alignment.
4. I disagree. The Big East was a well known brand for recruits in both FB and BB. No one has the slightest clue what The American is. The Big East brand may not have been SEC/B1G level, but it immediately told recruits and TV viewers that the conference was superior to the G4 conferences. The conference name was sold as part of a money grab by Cincy, UConn, and USF, who kept the spoils of that for themselves.

The Gator Bowl got exactly what they deserve to get, on the outside looking in. I remember the head of that bowl making disparaging remarks about the BE before they finally left the league high and dry. Now that bowl is reduced to a lower tier bowl. Its too bad that they didnt play their cards right because the Gator Bowl still has big time name recognition.
07-29-2020 10:23 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

I’d have to look at the specifics but those three kicked a lot of the money to the AAC. I want to say they only got 60% of it.

That may be accurate. Even if so, keeping 60% of it for themselves instead of spreading it equally still makes it a cash grab in my books.
07-29-2020 10:28 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

Also true.
07-29-2020 10:29 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #68
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:28 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

I’d have to look at the specifics but those three kicked a lot of the money to the AAC. I want to say they only got 60% of it.

That may be accurate. Even if so, keeping 60% of it for themselves instead of spreading it equally still makes it a cash grab in my books.

Meh. It's more complicated than that.

UConn, Cincinnati and USF were making way more in the Big East than at the start of the AAC. The fees they were collecting (and let's say it's 60%) were compensating each of them for the difference in lost revenues. Conversely, without UConn, Cincinnati and USF, the new BE/AAC programs would not have been able to get a better deal from ESPN in terms of TV revenue, TV exposure and better bowl opportunities.

In all, especially where the AAC is today, it was more than a fair compromise. All the teams are now making about $7 million annually - which never would have happened if there wasn't an association with UConn, Cincinnati and USF to begin with. Giving them something extra to start, in return for the invitation to an elevated conference, was a good bargain.
07-29-2020 10:39 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:39 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:28 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

I’d have to look at the specifics but those three kicked a lot of the money to the AAC. I want to say they only got 60% of it.

That may be accurate. Even if so, keeping 60% of it for themselves instead of spreading it equally still makes it a cash grab in my books.

Meh. It's more complicated than that.

UConn, Cincinnati and USF were making way more in the Big East than at the start of the AAC. The fees they were collecting (and let's say it's 60%) were compensating each of them for the difference in lost revenues. Conversely, without UConn, Cincinnati and USF, the new BE/AAC programs would not have been able to get a better deal from ESPN in terms of TV revenue, TV exposure and better bowl opportunities.

In all, especially where the AAC is today, it was more than a fair compromise. All the teams are now making about $7 million annually - which never would have happened if there wasn't an association with UConn, Cincinnati and USF to begin with. Giving them something extra to start, in return for the invitation to an elevated conference, was a good bargain.

And where exactly were those schools going to go? And how much did they keep of the NCAA credits and entry/exit fees for themselves versus what was distributed to the new members?
07-29-2020 10:42 AM
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Post: #70
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

UConn really has no excuse for the state of their football program.
07-29-2020 11:08 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #71
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 10:42 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  And where exactly were those schools going to go? And how much did they keep of the NCAA credits and entry/exit fees for themselves versus what was distributed to the new members?

That is a good question. I did a google search, but I had a hard time finding a concrete answer. The best I could find was this:

Quote:The conference won't distribute all of the roughly $100 million it will have on hand to those three schools [Cincinnati, UConn, and USF], because some of the money will go to the departing Catholic 7 as well as the schools that are joining the league. Blaudschun estimates that Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida will receive between $18 million and $25 million apiece. Negotiations are ongoing, so the figures are not concrete at this point.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-expansion

If Bladschun's high end estimate was correct, that's only 25% of the $100 million. Disproportionate, yes, but not 60%.

It's important to remember that UConn, Cincinnati, and USF reached an agreement with the incoming AAC members that the older members would receive a disproportionate amount. Aresco said that the agreement was amicable.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2020 11:13 AM by Michael in Raleigh.)
07-29-2020 11:10 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:10 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:42 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  And where exactly were those schools going to go? And how much did they keep of the NCAA credits and entry/exit fees for themselves versus what was distributed to the new members?

That is a good question. I did a google search, but I had a hard time finding a concrete answer. The best I could find was this:

Quote:The conference won't distribute all of the roughly $100 million it will have on hand to those three schools [Cincinnati, UConn, and USF], because some of the money will go to the departing Catholic 7 as well as the schools that are joining the league. Blaudschun estimates that Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida will receive between $18 million and $25 million apiece. Negotiations are ongoing, so the figures are not concrete at this point.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-expansion

If Bladschun's high end estimate was correct, that's only 25% of the $100 million. Disproportionate, yes, but not 60%.

It's important to remember that UConn, Cincinnati, and USF reached an agreement with the incoming AAC members that the older members would receive a disproportionate amount. Aresco said that the agreement was amicable.

I think you missed a detail in the sentence. It said $18-25m apiece. That means they kept between $54-75m for themselves, so 54-75%. I have a feeling it was closer to the high end than the low end.
07-29-2020 11:26 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #73
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:26 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 11:10 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:42 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  And where exactly were those schools going to go? And how much did they keep of the NCAA credits and entry/exit fees for themselves versus what was distributed to the new members?

That is a good question. I did a google search, but I had a hard time finding a concrete answer. The best I could find was this:

Quote:The conference won't distribute all of the roughly $100 million it will have on hand to those three schools [Cincinnati, UConn, and USF], because some of the money will go to the departing Catholic 7 as well as the schools that are joining the league. Blaudschun estimates that Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida will receive between $18 million and $25 million apiece. Negotiations are ongoing, so the figures are not concrete at this point.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-expansion

If Bladschun's high end estimate was correct, that's only 25% of the $100 million. Disproportionate, yes, but not 60%.

It's important to remember that UConn, Cincinnati, and USF reached an agreement with the incoming AAC members that the older members would receive a disproportionate amount. Aresco said that the agreement was amicable.

I think you missed a detail in the sentence. It said $18-25m apiece. That means they kept between $54-75m for themselves, so 54-75%. I have a feeling it was closer to the high end than the low end.

Yikes! You're right. I did. 03-drunk
07-29-2020 11:30 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #74
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:10 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:42 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  And where exactly were those schools going to go? And how much did they keep of the NCAA credits and entry/exit fees for themselves versus what was distributed to the new members?

That is a good question. I did a google search, but I had a hard time finding a concrete answer. The best I could find was this:

Quote:The conference won't distribute all of the roughly $100 million it will have on hand to those three schools [Cincinnati, UConn, and USF], because some of the money will go to the departing Catholic 7 as well as the schools that are joining the league. Blaudschun estimates that Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida will receive between $18 million and $25 million apiece. Negotiations are ongoing, so the figures are not concrete at this point.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...-expansion

If Bladschun's high end estimate was correct, that's only 25% of the $100 million. Disproportionate, yes, but not 60%.

It's important to remember that UConn, Cincinnati, and USF reached an agreement with the incoming AAC members that the older members would receive a disproportionate amount. Aresco said that the agreement was amicable.

And UConn, Cincinnati and USF did have some leverage (not a ton). They could have sided with the C7, disband the Big East (return all of the exit fees/tournament credits to the original schools), reform a non-football league and formed a new Independent coalition. This would not have solved the bowl tie-in issue, but the question then would have become what would Memphis, UCF, Houston, SMU, Temple, Tulane and ECU have done? C-USA already backfilled. Temple could have likely returned to the A10 and as an FBS Independent (and joined UConn, Cincinnati and USF).

Was it an equal arrangement (between UConn/UC/USF and the new-comers)? No, but it didn't need to be, nor should it have been. Due to realignment, the circumstances changed (where it went from buying into a BCS-guaranteed conference, into one that was now outside the P5).
07-29-2020 11:32 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
As a UC fan I think UC, UConn and USF were justified in taking that share. They earned it, Tulsa or ECU had no claim to it. The former three schools are among the hand full of schools in the FBS making less money today than they were a decade ago.
07-29-2020 11:45 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As a UC fan I think UC, UConn and USF were justified in taking that share. They earned it, Tulsa or ECU had no claim to it. The former three schools are among the hand full of schools in the FBS making less money today than they were a decade ago.

The AAC is not the only conference to do something like this. The Big Ten made Nebraska, Rutgers, and Maryland receive less conference revenue for years before the became, financially, full equity members.
07-29-2020 12:01 PM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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Post: #77
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As a UC fan I think UC, UConn and USF were justified in taking that share. They earned it, Tulsa or ECU had no claim to it. The former three schools are among the hand full of schools in the FBS making less money today than they were a decade ago.

I agree. It's interesting how the 3 programs used their shares.

Cincinnati - completely renovated their stadium
usf - threw it at failed coaches instead of facilities
Uconn - ????

In usf's case it was a high risk high reward move that happened to not pay off but I can understand it.
07-29-2020 12:04 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #78
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As a UC fan I think UC, UConn and USF were justified in taking that share. They earned it, Tulsa or ECU had no claim to it. The former three schools are among the hand full of schools in the FBS making less money today than they were a decade ago.


As a fellow UC fan, I agree with this fully. And as a Memphis fan, too, I accept that UC, UConn and USF handled the matter as they should have.
07-29-2020 12:07 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 11:08 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

UConn really has no excuse for the state of their football program.


Agree but there are legitimate explanations that can be given regarding the woeful state of UConn football.

Let's say I'm supposed to be at work at 8 a.m. and I take the bus. The bus I normally catch doesn't show up because of a mechanical failure. I catch the next bus 15 minutes later and, as such, am 15 minutes late to work. Technically, I have no "excuse" for being late because, in theory, I could have hustled and caught the bus that arrives 15 minutes before the bus that broke down. That would have gotten me to work 15 minutes early. But in this scenario, I arrive 15 minutes late. No excuse but I have a reasonable explanation.

There are some "reasonable explanations" for UConn's football woes — but if you are a sincere and honest Husky fan, you still refuse to make excuses.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2020 12:13 PM by bill dazzle.)
07-29-2020 12:13 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #80
RE: What if: Big East signs new contract w/ ESPN in 2011
(07-29-2020 12:13 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 11:08 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 10:00 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 09:55 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Big East football brand value >>> AAC football brand value

But...

Settlement to sell Big East brand to C7 >>> Big East football brand value

Exactly. Pure money grab by UConn, Cincy, and USF, who kept that money for themselves despite charging us all entry fees to join the Big East.

UConn really has no excuse for the state of their football program.


Agree but there are legitimate explanations that can be given regarding the woeful state of UConn football.

Let's say I'm supposed to be at work at 8 a.m. and I take the bus. The bus I normally catch doesn't show up because of a mechanical failure. I catch the next bus 15 minutes later and, as such, am 15 minutes late to work. Technically, I have no "excuse" for being late because, in theory, I could have hustled and caught the bus that arrives 15 minutes before the bus that broke down. That would have gotten me to work 15 minutes early. But in this scenario, I arrive 15 minutes late. No excuse but I have a reasonable explanation.

There are some "reasonable explanations" for UConn's football woes — but if you are a sincere and honest Husky fan, you still refuse to make excuses.

Three words: awful coaching hires.
07-29-2020 12:17 PM
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