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Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-25-2020 10:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Notre Dame football really does "join" the ACC for 2020, meaning being counted in the conference football standings, being eligible for the ACC title game and ACC side of the Orange Bowl bid, etc., the full shebang, than that will be a MAJOR breakthrough for the ACC in their attempt to lure ND permanently into the fold.

A major coup, as temporary things sometimes become permanent.

I sort of see this one the opposite way. Why would Notre Dame ever fully join the ACC if they now know that the ACC will come to their rescue anytime that independence gets hard? If you can have your cake and eat it too, then stay independent in football and just keep scarfing down cake. If Notre Dame has shown us anything over the years, it is that Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame at all costs, conference mates be damned.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 03:20 PM by UConnHusky.)
07-27-2020 03:12 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-27-2020 03:12 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Notre Dame football really does "join" the ACC for 2020, meaning being counted in the conference football standings, being eligible for the ACC title game and ACC side of the Orange Bowl bid, etc., the full shebang, than that will be a MAJOR breakthrough for the ACC in their attempt to lure ND permanently into the fold.

A major coup, as temporary things sometimes become permanent.

I sort of see this one the opposite way. Why would Notre Dame ever fully join the ACC if they now know that the ACC will come to their rescue anytime that independence gets hard? If you can have your cake and eat it too, then stay independent in football and just keep scarfing down cake. If Notre Dame has shown us anything over the years, it is that Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame at all costs, conference mates be damned.

So says a fan of a school that ditched its AAC conference mates without a backwards glance for football independence and the Big East.

(Imitation must be a form of flattery here)

I guess that the UConn administration thought it should do what is best for UConn at all costs, AAC "conference mates" be damned.

Irony.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 06:42 PM by TerryD.)
07-27-2020 06:37 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-27-2020 03:12 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Notre Dame football really does "join" the ACC for 2020, meaning being counted in the conference football standings, being eligible for the ACC title game and ACC side of the Orange Bowl bid, etc., the full shebang, than that will be a MAJOR breakthrough for the ACC in their attempt to lure ND permanently into the fold.

A major coup, as temporary things sometimes become permanent.

I sort of see this one the opposite way. Why would Notre Dame ever fully join the ACC if they now know that the ACC will come to their rescue anytime that independence gets hard? If you can have your cake and eat it too, then stay independent in football and just keep scarfing down cake. If Notre Dame has shown us anything over the years, it is that Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame at all costs, conference mates be damned.

As someone who wants ND to always be independent, to me joining for the 2020 season would set a precedent that could lead to full membership in the future. It would break some ice, some psychological barriers in the minds of the ND community.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 06:49 PM by quo vadis.)
07-27-2020 06:48 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-27-2020 03:12 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Notre Dame football really does "join" the ACC for 2020, meaning being counted in the conference football standings, being eligible for the ACC title game and ACC side of the Orange Bowl bid, etc., the full shebang, than that will be a MAJOR breakthrough for the ACC in their attempt to lure ND permanently into the fold.

A major coup, as temporary things sometimes become permanent.

I sort of see this one the opposite way. Why would Notre Dame ever fully join the ACC if they now know that the ACC will come to their rescue anytime that independence gets hard? If you can have your cake and eat it too, then stay independent in football and just keep scarfing down cake. If Notre Dame has shown us anything over the years, it is that Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame at all costs, conference mates be damned.

You just answered your own question.
Regardless of how you or I feel about Notre Dame, the Domers are honorable. They know who they can trust by the way they have been treated, not by what what someone can or will promise them. Just look at the loyalty shown to Navy.
The only way Notre Dame will ever join the ACC, is when they know that they can absolutely trust the ACC to have their back.
07-27-2020 07:04 PM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
I guess sixteen teams makes the scheduling easier.
Otherwise not much in it for the ACC.
07-28-2020 09:05 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
Nothing against Notre dame if any other school had one foot in the door I would be against it.
ND used to play 4-5 Big Ten teams a year on a regular basis.
When ND was good like top five it hurt the Big Ten giving them 3-5 losses.
When ND struggled the conference didn't get credit for being part of the reason.
Really they should be fully independent and in the Big East.
07-28-2020 09:14 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
I don't know if this has been brought up but if Notre Dame joins the ACC for a season who would control the their home games? NBC or ESPN?
07-28-2020 10:09 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 10:09 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I don't know if this has been brought up but if Notre Dame joins the ACC for a season who would control the their home games? NBC or ESPN?

NBC, the negotiation is how to share that money I assume.
07-28-2020 10:24 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 09:14 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Nothing against Notre dame if any other school had one foot in the door I would be against it.
ND used to play 4-5 Big Ten teams a year on a regular basis.
When ND was good like top five it hurt the Big Ten giving them 3-5 losses.
When ND struggled the conference didn't get credit for being part of the reason.
Really they should be fully independent and in the Big East.

Well why'd it take you so long to weigh in? You should've told them this years ago before they settled into the current arrangement. They've always made it clear that it was up to Idaho fans to determine what was best for them.
07-28-2020 11:44 AM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-27-2020 06:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 03:12 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Notre Dame football really does "join" the ACC for 2020, meaning being counted in the conference football standings, being eligible for the ACC title game and ACC side of the Orange Bowl bid, etc., the full shebang, than that will be a MAJOR breakthrough for the ACC in their attempt to lure ND permanently into the fold.

A major coup, as temporary things sometimes become permanent.

I sort of see this one the opposite way. Why would Notre Dame ever fully join the ACC if they now know that the ACC will come to their rescue anytime that independence gets hard? If you can have your cake and eat it too, then stay independent in football and just keep scarfing down cake. If Notre Dame has shown us anything over the years, it is that Notre Dame will do what is best for Notre Dame at all costs, conference mates be damned.

So says a fan of a school that ditched its AAC conference mates without a backwards glance for football independence and the Big East.

(Imitation must be a form of flattery here)

I guess that the UConn administration thought it should do what is best for UConn at all costs, AAC "conference mates" be damned.

Irony.

We are a touch defensive I see. Anyway, I wasn't referring to conference switching. UConn did what it had to do and actually did it in a transparent and honorable fashion (pretty much everyone saw us leaving the AAC when our AD expressed disapproval with the AAC TV deal). As for Notre Dame, they ditched the Big East and Hockey East in a fair enough fashion. Nobody took it personally.

I guess I can't entirely blame Notre Dame for what they do. If the ACC and FBS on the whole are going to allow for special treatment for the Irish, that isn't Notre Dame's fault. Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford). However, even in the Big East, Notre Dame never really felt like a conference mate. It was like having a parasite on you that is there to suck blood to keep themselves going. Some may say that Notre Dame offers a conference a symbiotic relationship, but I just think that they take more than they are willing to give (that is if we are looking at more than just money, but I get that money is all that matters these days). They haven't historically accomplished all that much in men's basketball and football, while still impressive, is rarely a finish in the top 10 impressive. However, as I said, everyone has enabled the Irish to have a special seat, so I don't blame them.

I do enjoy playing the Irish from time to time, but I am honestly glad that they reside in a different conference. I prefer a set up where all league members are treated the same and are "all in" to help their conference mates while they are in a conference with them. Just my preference.
07-28-2020 02:50 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 02:50 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford).

I don't think ND has any strong loyalty to Stanford. They're just a means to increase access to California recruiting for years when USC plays at ND.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 02:57 PM by Nerdlinger.)
07-28-2020 02:56 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:50 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford).

I don't think ND has any strong loyalty to Stanford. They're just a substitute for USC in years when that rivalry is played at ND.

Good point.
07-28-2020 02:57 PM
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domer1978 Online
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Post: #53
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:50 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford).

I don't think ND has any strong loyalty to Stanford. They're just a means to increase access to California recruiting for years when USC plays at ND.

Yep, just insures we visit California at least once a year. We pull a good number of students from Cali. USC is our "friend" on the west coast, Stanford is an institutional peer of sorts (Where we want to be).
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 03:15 PM by domer1978.)
07-28-2020 03:15 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 03:15 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:50 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford).

I don't think ND has any strong loyalty to Stanford. They're just a means to increase access to California recruiting for years when USC plays at ND.

Yep, just insures we visit California at least once a year. We pull a good number of students from Cali. USC is our "friend" on the west coast, Stanford is an institutional peer of sorts (Where we want to be).

Stanford is an aspiration. For just about any research school except for the Ivies who think they are better than they really are.
07-28-2020 03:28 PM
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domer1978 Online
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Post: #55
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 03:15 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 02:50 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Notre Dame also does show loyalty to a few schools (Navy, USC, and Stanford).

I don't think ND has any strong loyalty to Stanford. They're just a means to increase access to California recruiting for years when USC plays at ND.

Yep, just insures we visit California at least once a year. We pull a good number of students from Cali. USC is our "friend" on the west coast, Stanford is an institutional peer of sorts (Where we want to be).

Stanford is an aspiration. For just about any research school except for the Ivies who think they are better than they really are.
Yep, we aren't to that level. Aspirational peer, not for me personally but the admin strives for it.
07-28-2020 03:31 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
It once again needs repeating:

Notre Dame being an FBS independent is advantageous to multiple parties, namely:

- Notre Dame. Notre Dame maintains flexibility and control over having a national schedule, something no conference (P5 or G5) can offer. They can play in every region of the country in any given season, against any handful of opponents from any of the P5 conferences, while still securing Navy, USC and Stanford regularly.
- The P5. If Notre Dame joins one conference, it eliminates the likelihood of them getting to play ND once in a given year. It is not out of the ordinary for ND to play one opponent from each of the P5 in a given year. This flexibility offers exposure, viewership and marketing opportunities to not just ND, but any team/conference that gets to play them.
- The CFP. Notre Dame as already demonstrated it can compete for a CFP-spot outside a conference. Fans/viewers continue to tune into ND games (whether in support or against them). The flexibility helps national viewership and ratings for regular season games as well as the CFP (when they do make it in). Forcing them into a conference, from the P5 perspective, only adds to the P5-champion-only set-up; Notre Dame's independence offers itself flexibility.
- The ACC. Would the ACC want ND as a full-member? Sure, every conference would (because it would increase value and exposure); however, the ACC gets a 5-game guarantee annually against a top-10 brand program (increasing SOS and CFP odds for ACC Champion), while preventing ND from competing for an ACC Championship spot.

In the end, despite what fans may argue or shout for, Notre Dame's independence is a good thing for college football - not just for the fans, but because of the dollars and value opportunities. Every single realignment move has always been predicated on money, value and exposure. ND joining one conference fully, one day - hypothetically, lowers values of other P5 conferences in football.

This year's ACC/ND set-up, if we even get a football season, will absolutely be temporary and does not further or lessen the likelihood of Notre Dame ever fully joining the ACC. Notre Dame is more likely to go back to the Big East as a non-football member (which, in itself, has incredibly low odds as well).
07-28-2020 03:44 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 03:44 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It once again needs repeating:

Notre Dame being an FBS independent is advantageous to multiple parties, namely:

- Notre Dame. Notre Dame maintains flexibility and control over having a national schedule, something no conference (P5 or G5) can offer. They can play in every region of the country in any given season, against any handful of opponents from any of the P5 conferences, while still securing Navy, USC and Stanford regularly.
- The P5. If Notre Dame joins one conference, it eliminates the likelihood of them getting to play ND once in a given year. It is not out of the ordinary for ND to play one opponent from each of the P5 in a given year. This flexibility offers exposure, viewership and marketing opportunities to not just ND, but any team/conference that gets to play them.
- The CFP. Notre Dame as already demonstrated it can compete for a CFP-spot outside a conference. Fans/viewers continue to tune into ND games (whether in support or against them). The flexibility helps national viewership and ratings for regular season games as well as the CFP (when they do make it in). Forcing them into a conference, from the P5 perspective, only adds to the P5-champion-only set-up; Notre Dame's independence offers itself flexibility.
- The ACC. Would the ACC want ND as a full-member? Sure, every conference would (because it would increase value and exposure); however, the ACC gets a 5-game guarantee annually against a top-10 brand program (increasing SOS and CFP odds for ACC Champion), while preventing ND from competing for an ACC Championship spot.

In the end, despite what fans may argue or shout for, Notre Dame's independence is a good thing for college football - not just for the fans, but because of the dollars and value opportunities. Every single realignment move has always been predicated on money, value and exposure. ND joining one conference fully, one day - hypothetically, lowers values of other P5 conferences in football.

This year's ACC/ND set-up, if we even get a football season, will absolutely be temporary and does not further or lessen the likelihood of Notre Dame ever fully joining the ACC. Notre Dame is more likely to go back to the Big East as a non-football member (which, in itself, has incredibly low odds as well).

I would add that it's good for college football to have a strong independent. We don't want conferences becoming entrenched bureaucracies with lots of power.

It's a good thing that BYU was able to leave the MWC and UConn was able to leave the American. It let them move to a better place. It's also a good thing that NMSU was able to stay D-1A, and that Liberty was able to move up to D-1A.

But none of that would have been possible without Notre Dame carrying the torch for independents and ensuring that independents would never be completely shut out of the bowl system.
07-28-2020 03:58 PM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 03:58 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I would add that it's good for college football to have a strong independent. We don't want conferences becoming entrenched bureaucracies with lots of power.

It's a good thing that BYU was able to leave the MWC and UConn was able to leave the American. It let them move to a better place. It's also a good thing that NMSU was able to stay D-1A, and that Liberty was able to move up to D-1A.

But none of that would have been possible without Notre Dame carrying the torch for independents and ensuring that independents would never be completely shut out of the bowl system.

You make some good points. Without Notre Dame as an independent, no other independent would have a recruiting pitch to recruits that supports playing for an independent school. So I suppose I should be thankful to Notre Dame's football independence. I just don't personally like sharing a conference with a school that gets any kind of special treatment, though (I suppose I would feel the same about Texas if we were in the Big 12).
07-28-2020 04:43 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
(07-28-2020 11:44 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 09:14 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Nothing against Notre dame if any other school had one foot in the door I would be against it.
ND used to play 4-5 Big Ten teams a year on a regular basis.
When ND was good like top five it hurt the Big Ten giving them 3-5 losses.
When ND struggled the conference didn't get credit for being part of the reason.
Really they should be fully independent and in the Big East.

Well why'd it take you so long to weigh in? You should've told them this years ago before they settled into the current arrangement. They've always made it clear that it was up to Idaho fans to determine what was best for them.

The Idaho fan is not alone in thinking being an independent in football and Big East for everything else is the ideal arrangement for ND. But alas no one cares what fans want they care about $$$. I miss the annual games against MSU Michigan, Purdue and Pitt, not to mention almost annual games against BC.
07-28-2020 05:24 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Notre Dame in talks to join the ACC for 2020 football
CBSSports.com is pushing the idea of Notre Dame joining the ACC in football not just for 2020:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...yond-2020/

"The Fighting Irish have been resistant to join a conference, but what if they like it?"

"Swarbrick (Notre Dame's AD) told The Athletic last year that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program."

"That doesn't mean Notre Dame is walking down the aisle with the ACC. It's a different program. Independence cannot always be clearly quantified. Notre Dame considers itself a separate entity. " "Independence allows scheduling freedom. It allows coast-to-coat marketing of the school. " (obvious spelling error)

The article points out Notre Dame's game at Georgia which aired on CBS and was CBS's 2nd most watched game last season. If the Irish join the ACC as a full member, they will have fewer opportunities to play at SEC teams and appear on CBS. But that contract's ending in a few years anyway.
07-29-2020 11:54 AM
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