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TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
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johnbragg Offline
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TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
I had the vague impression that Harvard and Yale, like Army and Navy, were top national football programs for a long time. But looking up stuff on wikipedia for the "What If the Ivy Leagues stayed big-time" thread, I realized their time as national powers didn't end in the 1950s or 60s, it ended much, much sooner than that. It wasn't going non-scholarship that finished them, it wasn't even the GI Bill and the post-WW2 expansion of higher ed that buried them. It dates back to the Great Depression, when it became the norm for most people to finish high school.

HArvard has 12 MNCs, last in 1920.
Yale has 27 MNCs, last in 1927.
Penn has 7 MNCs, last in 1924
Princeton has 28, last in 1950. (1920, 22, 33, 35, 50)
Brown no MNCs. 1926 team did go 9-0-1 though.
Columbia 2 MNCs, last in 1933.
Cornell 5 MNCs, last in 1939.
Dartmouth, 1 MNC in 1925

I had this impression that before the Ivy's chose to de-emphasize athletics, they were major heavyweights, and apparently that's not really the case.
07-24-2020 11:22 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 11:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I had the vague impression that Harvard and Yale, like Army and Navy, were top national football programs for a long time.

Well, the Ivy's started playing in the 1870s and were powers in to the 1930s. That's about 60 years, so a pretty long time.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2020 11:29 AM by quo vadis.)
07-24-2020 11:28 AM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 11:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I had the vague impression that Harvard and Yale, like Army and Navy, were top national football programs for a long time.

Well, the Ivy's started playing in the 1870s and were powers in to the 1930s. That's about 60 years, so a pretty long time.

07-coffee3

And in 50 of those 60 years, more than half of American homes didn't have electricity, so the IVY's were dominating in a time where most homes were lit by candles.
07-24-2020 11:41 AM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
And I remember when the NCAA controlled the TV and ABC (I believe it was ABC) did Saturday college football in the 60s, they placed a big emphasis on Ivy League scores on the scoreboard show. Their interest continued for a good time after their days as dominant had passed.
07-24-2020 03:10 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.
07-24-2020 03:41 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.

Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.
07-24-2020 05:05 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 03:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  And I remember when the NCAA controlled the TV and ABC (I believe it was ABC) did Saturday college football in the 60s, they placed a big emphasis on Ivy League scores on the scoreboard show. Their interest continued for a good time after their days as dominant had passed.

I have to wonder--those were the days of network monopolies, did network executives' own school backgrounds play a role there. Maybe you didn't have millions of people across America tuning in for that Cornell-Dartmouth score, but you DID have enough network suits interested, so the Ivy scoreboard was included.

(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

78-83, some Ivy games were national, a few were the regional game

Same cynical thought. With the addition that, Boston, Philadelphia, New York City are not traditional CFB hotbeds, so if Penn State and Syracuse had already used up their appearance, might as well show the Ivy League game as the Rutgers-Lafayette game.
07-24-2020 06:01 PM
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Post: #8
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 11:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I had the vague impression that Harvard and Yale, like Army and Navy, were top national football programs for a long time. But looking up stuff on wikipedia for the "What If the Ivy Leagues stayed big-time" thread, I realized their time as national powers didn't end in the 1950s or 60s, it ended much, much sooner than that. It wasn't going non-scholarship that finished them, it wasn't even the GI Bill and the post-WW2 expansion of higher ed that buried them. It dates back to the Great Depression, when it became the norm for most people to finish high school.

HArvard has 12 MNCs, last in 1920.
Yale has 27 MNCs, last in 1927.
Penn has 7 MNCs, last in 1924
Princeton has 28, last in 1950. (1920, 22, 33, 35, 50)
Brown no MNCs. 1926 team did go 9-0-1 though.
Columbia 2 MNCs, last in 1933.
Cornell 5 MNCs, last in 1939.
Dartmouth, 1 MNC in 1925

I had this impression that before the Ivy's chose to de-emphasize athletics, they were major heavyweights, and apparently that's not really the case.

National championships is an extreme indicator because you can’t have many ‘champions’. I believe that AP poll rankings is another indicator that universities are actually emphasizing their football programs.

The decision by the Ivy’s to de-emphasize athletics was made in the early 1950s (in different years by different universities...but definitely by 1954 at all schools that eventually joined the formation of the official Ivy League). The loss of athletic scholarships partly explains why:

1) Penn Quakers were ranked in the AP polls for 15 consecutive years (1939-1953), but not ranked the subsequent years.

2) Princeton was ranked for 5 consecutive years (1949-1953) before the Ivy League started, but not afterwards.

3) Harvard, Yale, Cornell and Columbia also had 3, 4, or 5 years with AP ranked teams in the 1940s...but not in the 1950s.

Don’t disagree that these schools were even more dominant in the first 50 years of college football, but the eventual Ivy League schools were strong athletic programs in the 1930s and 1940s.
07-24-2020 06:02 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 06:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 03:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  And I remember when the NCAA controlled the TV and ABC (I believe it was ABC) did Saturday college football in the 60s, they placed a big emphasis on Ivy League scores on the scoreboard show. Their interest continued for a good time after their days as dominant had passed.

I have to wonder--those were the days of network monopolies, did network executives' own school backgrounds play a role there. Maybe you didn't have millions of people across America tuning in for that Cornell-Dartmouth score, but you DID have enough network suits interested, so the Ivy scoreboard was included.

(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

78-83, some Ivy games were national, a few were the regional game

Same cynical thought. With the addition that, Boston, Philadelphia, New York City are not traditional CFB hotbeds, so if Penn State and Syracuse had already used up their appearance, might as well show the Ivy League game as the Rutgers-Lafayette game.

May be part of it, but until the Colt-Giants OT championship game in 1958 really put the NFL on the map, the pros were hardly dominant. So college was still a big deal. It took a while for it to fade out of attention in the northeast.

Ran across this article:

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/11/0...cades-old/
"The informal “Ivy Group Agreement,” which established common academic standards and eligibility requirements and also banned athletic scholarships, was first signed in 1945, before formalizing into an athletic conference for the 1956 season....


“We had 38 players signed or drafted in the pros [from 1965-1981],” said Carm Cozza, the Yale head coach from 1965–96 and the winningest coach in program history. “My first year we recruited a great class, [running back] Calvin Hill ’69, who was the first pick of the [Dallas] Cowboys and rookie of the year in the NFL, we had a great quarterback, Brian Dowling ’69 and tight end Bruce Weinstein ’69, all drafted. We got a ton of national publicity, we were on ABC, that encouraged a lot of players to come to us. We played good people and we got recognition for that too....""


The atmosphere on game day at Yale also rivaled that of the larger schools. “The Bowl was a tremendous place, we were drawing really well then,” Cozza said. “The smallest attendance we had in the 60s or 70s would have been 35,000 or 40,000 We filled the Bowl [over 72,000] for Harvard, we’d have 56,000 for Dartmouth, 47,000 for Cornell. When we went to I-AA it definitely affected the attendance … we were not on major television as much. That probably hurt the league more than anything else.” The comparative dearth of other entertainment at the time, in addition to the NCAA’s monopoly on TV rights and policy of televising just one game a week, meant the student body attended the games en masse...."
07-25-2020 01:23 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 05:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.

Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.

This is actually excellent evidence that a large percentage of fans are more interested in seeing student athletes than a de facto professional minor league with college names on their jerseys.
07-25-2020 03:10 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 03:10 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 05:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.

Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.

This is actually excellent evidence that a large percentage of fans are more interested in seeing student athletes than a de facto professional minor league with college names on their jerseys.

Is it though? That was in a near-monopoly situation. There were maybe four channels. You could watch the Cornell-Colgate game on Channel 2, you could watch the Million Dollar Movie on Channel 4, you could watch Gilligan's Island and Star Trek on Channel 7, you could watch Donahue on Channel 11, or you could turn off the TV.

If that large percentage of fans are interested in seeing student athletes, why aren't they streaming FCS or Division II games? Or, heck, Ivy League games?

Yes, state high school playoff games get local TV and decent ratings. But the idea that "oh people would watch college athetics more if it were less corrupt" doesn't really have a lot of evidence to support it.
07-25-2020 03:16 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-24-2020 11:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I had the vague impression that Harvard and Yale, like Army and Navy, were top national football programs for a long time. But looking up stuff on wikipedia for the "What If the Ivy Leagues stayed big-time" thread, I realized their time as national powers didn't end in the 1950s or 60s, it ended much, much sooner than that. It wasn't going non-scholarship that finished them, it wasn't even the GI Bill and the post-WW2 expansion of higher ed that buried them. It dates back to the Great Depression, when it became the norm for most people to finish high school.

HArvard has 12 MNCs, last in 1920.
Yale has 27 MNCs, last in 1927.
Penn has 7 MNCs, last in 1924
Princeton has 28, last in 1950. (1920, 22, 33, 35, 50)
Brown no MNCs. 1926 team did go 9-0-1 though.
Columbia 2 MNCs, last in 1933.
Cornell 5 MNCs, last in 1939.
Dartmouth, 1 MNC in 1925

I had this impression that before the Ivy's chose to de-emphasize athletics, they were major heavyweights, and apparently that's not really the case.

By your list, the Ivies won 2 national titles in the 12 years after the Great Depression ended in mid-1939. That alone is pretty good evidence that they were still a power conference.

Consider that in the last 14 years, the Big 12 and Big Ten each have 1 national title and the PAC has 0.
07-25-2020 03:33 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:10 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 05:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.

Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.

This is actually excellent evidence that a large percentage of fans are more interested in seeing student athletes than a de facto professional minor league with college names on their jerseys.

Is it though? That was in a near-monopoly situation. There were maybe four channels. You could watch the Cornell-Colgate game on Channel 2, you could watch the Million Dollar Movie on Channel 4, you could watch Gilligan's Island and Star Trek on Channel 7, you could watch Donahue on Channel 11, or you could turn off the TV.

If that large percentage of fans are interested in seeing student athletes, why aren't they streaming FCS or Division II games? Or, heck, Ivy League games?

Yes, state high school playoff games get local TV and decent ratings. But the idea that "oh people would watch college athetics more if it were less corrupt" doesn't really have a lot of evidence to support it.

Are you trying to say that network execs would just throw any old game on TV in the 70s? Regardless of how many people cared? I don't believe that.

I'm not saying that ratings will rise if it becomes less corrupt. Today, college athletes still are scholar-athletes. They haven't jumped the shark yet. What I'm saying is that a lot of fans will leave if they do convert to a minor-league model (which the media seems to be universally in favor of).
07-25-2020 03:37 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 03:37 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:10 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 05:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 03:41 PM)sctvman Wrote:  It wasn’t until the 80s that they started deemphasizing the Ivy League on national TV. PBS had national Ivy League games in the late 80s with Sean McDonough on the call.

In ‘80, Yale-Harvard aired on 11/22, Dartmouth-Cornell on 10/25 as a deep regional game. Yale-Cornell aired on 11/3/79.

In ‘78 3 Ivy games aired, including Dartmouth-Princeton as a LEAD regional game on 11/18, including New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

The last year ABC had the solo CFB rights in 1981, a Navy-Yale game was their lead game one Saturday at noon. Dartmouth-Yale was their 2nd TV game.

In ‘82, Penn-Cornell was broadcast on 11/20 on ABC with Curt Gowdy on the call, along with Harvard-Holy Cross on 11/6.

In ‘83 Dartmouth-Penn aired on 11/19 as a regional game, the same weekend Holy Cross-BC aired.

Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.

This is actually excellent evidence that a large percentage of fans are more interested in seeing student athletes than a de facto professional minor league with college names on their jerseys.

Is it though? That was in a near-monopoly situation. There were maybe four channels. You could watch the Cornell-Colgate game on Channel 2, you could watch the Million Dollar Movie on Channel 4, you could watch Gilligan's Island and Star Trek on Channel 7, you could watch Donahue on Channel 11, or you could turn off the TV.

If that large percentage of fans are interested in seeing student athletes, why aren't they streaming FCS or Division II games? Or, heck, Ivy League games?

Yes, state high school playoff games get local TV and decent ratings. But the idea that "oh people would watch college athetics more if it were less corrupt" doesn't really have a lot of evidence to support it.

Are you trying to say that network execs would just throw any old game on TV in the 70s? Regardless of how many people cared? I don't believe that.

Well, I don't know directly. But there were restrictions (one appearance a year per program, I think). And there were weeks with regionalized games.

So you were restricted in what games you could show. And three-to-four channels meant there was a floor to how low your ratings would go. I really don't think that Colgate-Cornell would get very different numbers in Philadelphia than West Virginia @ Rutgers, or Tennessee @ Georgia.

Quote:I'm not saying that ratings will rise if it becomes less corrupt. Today, college athletes still are scholar-athletes. They haven't jumped the shark yet. What I'm saying is that a lot of fans will leave if they do convert to a minor-league model (which the media seems to be universally in favor of).

I'd say that any change to the system risks the coyote looking down and noticing he's running on thin air.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2020 03:54 PM by johnbragg.)
07-25-2020 03:52 PM
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whittx Offline
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 03:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:37 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 03:10 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 05:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  Keep in mind that there were some deep regional D2 and D3 games in this package. I remember seeing a Cortaca Jug game in there at some point.

This is actually excellent evidence that a large percentage of fans are more interested in seeing student athletes than a de facto professional minor league with college names on their jerseys.

Is it though? That was in a near-monopoly situation. There were maybe four channels. You could watch the Cornell-Colgate game on Channel 2, you could watch the Million Dollar Movie on Channel 4, you could watch Gilligan's Island and Star Trek on Channel 7, you could watch Donahue on Channel 11, or you could turn off the TV.

If that large percentage of fans are interested in seeing student athletes, why aren't they streaming FCS or Division II games? Or, heck, Ivy League games?

Yes, state high school playoff games get local TV and decent ratings. But the idea that "oh people would watch college athetics more if it were less corrupt" doesn't really have a lot of evidence to support it.

Are you trying to say that network execs would just throw any old game on TV in the 70s? Regardless of how many people cared? I don't believe that.

Well, I don't know directly. But there were restrictions (one appearance a year per program, I think). And there were weeks with regionalized games.

So you were restricted in what games you could show. And three-to-four channels meant there was a floor to how low your ratings would go. I really don't think that Colgate-Cornell would get very different numbers in Philadelphia than West Virginia @ Rutgers, or Tennessee @ Georgia.

Quote:I'm not saying that ratings will rise if it becomes less corrupt. Today, college athletes still are scholar-athletes. They haven't jumped the shark yet. What I'm saying is that a lot of fans will leave if they do convert to a minor-league model (which the media seems to be universally in favor of).

I'd say that any change to the system risks the coyote looking down and noticing he's running on thin air.

Keep in mind that the Ithaca-Cortland game was picked up by maybe 3 affiliates (Syracuse, Binghamton, Elmira).
07-25-2020 04:03 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
Penn (78,000), Yale (72,000), and Princeton (42,000) has major college facilities, and filled them. Harvard (40,000), Columbia (32.000) and Cornell (25,000) weren't large enough to do much more, and the facilities at Dartmouth (20,000) and Brown (20,000) were already too small.

The first three probably could have stayed in I-A but stepped down for the good of the league as a while...and Cozza was right--the Ivy has never been as relevant since.
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 04:07 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Penn (78,000), Yale (72,000), and Princeton (42,000) has major college facilities, and filled them. Harvard (40,000), Columbia (32.000) and Cornell (25,000) weren't large enough to do much more, and the facilities at Dartmouth (20,000) and Brown (20,000) were already too small.

The first three probably could have stayed in I-A but stepped down for the good of the league as a while...and Cozza was right--the Ivy has never been as relevant since.

Harvard did pretty good filling theirs.

Princeton has since downsized. They tore down the old stadium and built a new 27,000 seat stadium.
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Post: #18
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
Most weekends in the 70s and early 80s only 1-2 games a week aired live on TV. A national ABC game then a regional ABC game. Some weeks there wasn’t even a regional game.

For example: 9/22/79. Brown-Yale aired as the NATIONAL ABC game at 1:30pm with Keith Jackson and Frank Broyles. It aired in New York, Boston, Philly and the major markets.

Kentucky-Indiana aired as another regional game with Bill Flemming and Ara Parseghian for parts of the South and Midwest.

Missouri-Ole Miss aired to the Big 8 area and parts of the Southeast with Verne Lundquist and Steve Davis.

Texas Tech-Arizona aired to the Southwest with Steve Zabriskie and Ben Martin, while Concordia and St. Olaf aired to the Twin Cities.

San Jose State-Cal aired with Jim Lampley and Lee Grosscup to the West Coast at 4:30pm. So things were much more regional than they are now.

A week with a DH had as many as 8-10 games air throughout the nation. ABC (and later CBS) would use as few as 3 cameras for some of these games.
07-25-2020 07:17 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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I Root For: The Hoyas
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #19
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 04:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  Princeton has since downsized. They tore down the old stadium and built a new 27,000 seat stadium.

Columbia dropped capacity from 32,000 to 17,000 with the Baker Field replacement. Dartmouth is just 11,000. League wide average attendance is horrible.

Brown: 3,789
Cornell: 4,295
Columbia: 5,376
Dartmouth: 5,596
Harvard: 10,812
Pennsylvania: 8,427
Princeton: 5,886
Yale: 12,133
07-25-2020 08:35 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #20
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 08:35 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  Princeton has since downsized. They tore down the old stadium and built a new 27,000 seat stadium.

Columbia dropped capacity from 32,000 to 17,000 with the Baker Field replacement. Dartmouth is just 11,000. League wide average attendance is horrible.

Brown: 3,789
Cornell: 4,295
Columbia: 5,376
Dartmouth: 5,596
Harvard: 10,812
Pennsylvania: 8,427
Princeton: 5,886
Yale: 12,133

Cornell is actually closer to 21,000 now, since the West bleachers were removed a few years back.
07-26-2020 05:48 AM
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