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TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
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whittx Offline
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Post: #21
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 04:07 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Penn (78,000), Yale (72,000), and Princeton (42,000) has major college facilities, and filled them. Harvard (40,000), Columbia (32.000) and Cornell (25,000) weren't large enough to do much more, and the facilities at Dartmouth (20,000) and Brown (20,000) were already too small.

The first three probably could have stayed in I-A but stepped down for the good of the league as a while...and Cozza was right--the Ivy has never been as relevant since.

Cornell had the track inside the stadium back then. They removed it about 20 years ago when the soccer/track complex was built. If Cornell had gone FBS, they could have expanded the stadium to 35-40K by closing in the end zones and expanding the West bleachers to both end zones. Alternatively, a new stadium could have gone in the late 70's near camous, since Cornell could have repurposed some of their ag facilities like they did for the polo, softball, and tennis facilities.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020 11:47 AM by whittx.)
07-26-2020 05:54 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #22
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-25-2020 08:35 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  Princeton has since downsized. They tore down the old stadium and built a new 27,000 seat stadium.

Columbia dropped capacity from 32,000 to 17,000 with the Baker Field replacement. Dartmouth is just 11,000. League wide average attendance is horrible.

By whose standards? Attendance of 6,000 a game is only horrible if you have higher goals, like if you are G5 that dreams one day of being in a P-league and drawing 50,000 fans a game.

But by all accounts, the Ivy League has football at the level they want it, and that includes attendance.
07-26-2020 06:52 AM
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orangefan Online
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Post: #23
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/yea...tings.html

In 1950, Princeton finished 9-0 and was 6th in the AP. The Simple Rating System (SRS) computer rating from Sport-Reference.com has Penn 8th, Princeton 14th, and Cornell 28th.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/yea...tings.html

In 1951, Princeton again finished 9-0 and again was 6th in the AP. The Simple Rating System (SRS) computer rating from Sport-Reference.com has Penn 17th, Princeton 30th, and Cornell 33rd.

Penn had its own national TV contract, and played Wisconsin, Cal, Army, Navy, Princeton and Cornell both seasons, with all but two of these games at home. Penn's games against Cal and Wisconsin, each of whom was nationally ranked both seasons, were home and home series. In 1952 and 1953, Penn played Notre Dame twice, Penn State twice, Michigan, Ohio State and Georgia. All of these games, except the Michigan game, were played at Penn.

The schools that formed the Ivy league were not top to bottom this strong, no conference is, but its top schools competed at a national level even if they were not winning national championships.

The drop off in the level of play following their commitment to play in the non-scholarship Ivy League was dramatic. During the first year of play in the new league, Yale was the conference champion and had the highest SRS ranking of any school in the league at 42nd. Princeton was second with an SRS ranking of 61st. Penn was 94th and Cornell was 100th. There were 111 major college teams that year.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020 08:13 AM by orangefan.)
07-26-2020 07:58 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #24
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-26-2020 06:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  But by all accounts, the Ivy League has football at the level they want it, and that includes attendance.

If Princeton is happy with 6,000 a game, they overspent on Palmer Stadium's replacement.

[Image: KOhOGquwRZdynS_b7FtqWD4zNLT-8OzXOFU3Uqt8...CwddYkkWdQ]
07-26-2020 07:43 PM
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Post: #25
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-26-2020 07:43 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 06:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  But by all accounts, the Ivy League has football at the level they want it, and that includes attendance.

If Princeton is happy with 6,000 a game, they overspent on Palmer Stadium's replacement.

[Image: KOhOGquwRZdynS_b7FtqWD4zNLT-8OzXOFU3Uqt8...CwddYkkWdQ]

They knew they didn't need 45,000 anymore, but I'm sure they expected more than 6k.
07-26-2020 09:01 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1924/...t-ever-in/

Trying to find some historical attendance figures. Harvard apparently used to play at a larger stadium (Dartmouth never had a 51k seat stadium).

"...A significant sidelight on the interest aroused by the Dartmouth game is revealed by the fact that the attendance that day was larger than at the Princeton game. The figures were 51,307 and 50,936, respectively.

The official figures for the eight games are as follows: Virginia, 22,868; Middlebury, 30,372; Holy Cross, 41,602; Dartmouth, 51,307; Boston University, 20,910; Princeton, 50,936; Brown, 39,102; Yale, 74,786; and total, 331,883."
07-26-2020 09:05 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/...mbers.html

"...30,323: Capacity attendance at Harvard Stadium. The stadium seated up to 57,166 in the past, as permanent steel stands (completing a straight-sided oval) were installed in the north end of the stadium in 1929. They were torn down after the 1951 season due to deterioration and reduced attendance...."
07-26-2020 09:16 PM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-26-2020 09:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1924/...t-ever-in/
Trying to find some historical attendance figures. Harvard apparently used to play at a larger stadium (Dartmouth never had a 51k seat stadium).

Harvard has played in the same stadium since 1903 but had a large end zone setup which does not exist today. Its announced capacity prior to 1951 was 57,166.

For many years Dartmouth simply played Harvard and Yale on the road as it allowed its alumni better access than taking the train to Hanover. Dartmouth didn't actually host Yale in a home game from 1924 to 1971.
07-26-2020 09:18 PM
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Post: #29
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-26-2020 09:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 09:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1924/...t-ever-in/
Trying to find some historical attendance figures. Harvard apparently used to play at a larger stadium (Dartmouth never had a 51k seat stadium).

Harvard has played in the same stadium since 1903 but had a large end zone setup which does not exist today. Its announced capacity prior to 1951 was 57,166.

For many years Dartmouth simply played Harvard and Yale on the road as it allowed its alumni better access than taking the train to Hanover. Dartmouth didn't actually host Yale in a home game from 1924 to 1971.

Texas A&M did a similar thing with Rice. They played their home games vs. Rice in Houston in the 1950s.
07-26-2020 09:34 PM
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orangefan Online
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Post: #30
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-26-2020 09:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1924/...t-ever-in/

Trying to find some historical attendance figures. Harvard apparently used to play at a larger stadium (Dartmouth never had a 51k seat stadium).

"...A significant sidelight on the interest aroused by the Dartmouth game is revealed by the fact that the attendance that day was larger than at the Princeton game. The figures were 51,307 and 50,936, respectively.

The official figures for the eight games are as follows: Virginia, 22,868; Middlebury, 30,372; Holy Cross, 41,602; Dartmouth, 51,307; Boston University, 20,910; Princeton, 50,936; Brown, 39,102; Yale, 74,786; and total, 331,883."

Harvard Stadium 1920's, with wooden end zone section. Listed capacity: 42,000
[Image: Harvard_Stadium_-_1915.jpg]

Harvard Stadium 1929-51, with steel end zone section. Listed capacity: 57,166
[Image: content]
07-27-2020 07:01 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #31
RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
It’s amazing how little Harvard and Boston College have played.
07-27-2020 07:17 AM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-27-2020 07:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  It’s amazing how little Harvard and Boston College have played.

It appears the only times they played were during wartime periods when travel was limited. 1918, 1919, 1943 and 1944. In general, the timing of their status as major football programs really only overlapped from the late 1930's until the early 1950's.
07-28-2020 08:47 AM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-28-2020 08:47 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  It’s amazing how little Harvard and Boston College have played.

It appears the only times they played were during wartime periods when travel was limited. 1918, 1919, 1943 and 1944. In general, the timing of their status as major football programs really only overlapped from the late 1930's until the early 1950's.

Guess they didn't trust the bridges across the Charles River! Also only played Boston U. twice. They have played MIT 12 times, which is walking distance. And MIT is literally just across the bridge from Boston U.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 09:12 AM by bullet.)
07-28-2020 09:11 AM
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RE: TIL: The Ivy League weren't the big CFB powers I thought they were.
(07-28-2020 08:47 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  It’s amazing how little Harvard and Boston College have played.

It appears the only times they played were during wartime periods when travel was limited. 1918, 1919, 1943 and 1944. In general, the timing of their status as major football programs really only overlapped from the late 1930's until the early 1950's.

I didn't realize from 1939-42, BC went to three major bowl games and was ranked #1 in the nation in '42 before being thumped by Holy Cross.

Harvard was ranked a few times in the 40's. It seems Harvard sustained a pretty consistent diet of future Ivy teams, Army, and Holy Cross after the war.
07-28-2020 09:31 AM
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