(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 10:14 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 03:35 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The ACC feels like it's in limbo. It's either too big and stretched to far or it needs to fill in it's current geographic footprint and go to a pod system. They cover the area of 2 conferences since eating the old Big East. So the 2 solutions are splitting the conference or expanding the conference.

There are two ways the conference could split. Geographically with the Northeast reforming a conference while the ACC picks up southern teams. Or football first programs and basketball first programs. Which without digging in to much lets say the ACC members would split like this (Clemson being the only founding member to leave):
Football = FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT, Pitt, Miami & VT
Basketball = UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, BC

For expansion let's assume that no one is leaving the SEC or Big 10. Picking up UCF, Cincinnati, West Virginia & Navy FB only allows the ACC to fill in the Atlantic coast with additional quality programs while bringing in existing rivalries between and allowing new ones to develop. West Virginia-Pitt, Cincinnati-Louisville, UCF-Miami.

I think either of those scenarios would involve UCF & Cincinnati for sure though.

The problem with your scenario is that the ACC would most likely take Memphis over a 3rd Florida school. What could UCF bring to the table that FSU and Miami already aren't bringing in spades, not to mention there's no way in hades that those two are going to allow that. With Memphis they'd get a new market solidly in SEC country that would also bring a basketball program that would please the basketball side.

The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

Hmm. Ok

(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 10:14 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 03:35 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The ACC feels like it's in limbo. It's either too big and stretched to far or it needs to fill in it's current geographic footprint and go to a pod system. They cover the area of 2 conferences since eating the old Big East. So the 2 solutions are splitting the conference or expanding the conference.

There are two ways the conference could split. Geographically with the Northeast reforming a conference while the ACC picks up southern teams. Or football first programs and basketball first programs. Which without digging in to much lets say the ACC members would split like this (Clemson being the only founding member to leave):
Football = FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT, Pitt, Miami & VT
Basketball = UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, BC

For expansion let's assume that no one is leaving the SEC or Big 10. Picking up UCF, Cincinnati, West Virginia & Navy FB only allows the ACC to fill in the Atlantic coast with additional quality programs while bringing in existing rivalries between and allowing new ones to develop. West Virginia-Pitt, Cincinnati-Louisville, UCF-Miami.

I think either of those scenarios would involve UCF & Cincinnati for sure though.

The problem with your scenario is that the ACC would most likely take Memphis over a 3rd Florida school. What could UCF bring to the table that FSU and Miami already aren't bringing in spades, not to mention there's no way in hades that those two are going to allow that. With Memphis they'd get a new market solidly in SEC country that would also bring a basketball program that would please the basketball side.

The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

No they wouldn’t. Making us P5 would make us directly compete for the top recruits in Florida, which means less recruits for them, and we present a direct threat to them in a lot of other ways.

Although I would rate UCF as the strongest realignment candidate in the AAC right now, there's very little upside to the ACC adding them. UCF is kinda screwed unless the Big 12 wants to expand eastward or there is a complete breakdown of the current conference structure -- which isn't out of the question given the situation the world is in right now.

(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 10:14 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 03:35 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The ACC feels like it's in limbo. It's either too big and stretched to far or it needs to fill in it's current geographic footprint and go to a pod system. They cover the area of 2 conferences since eating the old Big East. So the 2 solutions are splitting the conference or expanding the conference.

There are two ways the conference could split. Geographically with the Northeast reforming a conference while the ACC picks up southern teams. Or football first programs and basketball first programs. Which without digging in to much lets say the ACC members would split like this (Clemson being the only founding member to leave):
Football = FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT, Pitt, Miami & VT
Basketball = UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, BC

For expansion let's assume that no one is leaving the SEC or Big 10. Picking up UCF, Cincinnati, West Virginia & Navy FB only allows the ACC to fill in the Atlantic coast with additional quality programs while bringing in existing rivalries between and allowing new ones to develop. West Virginia-Pitt, Cincinnati-Louisville, UCF-Miami.

I think either of those scenarios would involve UCF & Cincinnati for sure though.

The problem with your scenario is that the ACC would most likely take Memphis over a 3rd Florida school. What could UCF bring to the table that FSU and Miami already aren't bringing in spades, not to mention there's no way in hades that those two are going to allow that. With Memphis they'd get a new market solidly in SEC country that would also bring a basketball program that would please the basketball side.

The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

If the ACC was looking to solidify its footing within its existing footprint, I would suggest that West Virginia and Navy are attractive candidates. Cincinnati is probably on the short list, if you consider Cincinnati to be within the footprint...

Both Navy and West Virginia fill the geography hole created by Maryland's departure. As mentioned, West Virginia adds a true rivalry game in the Backyard Brawl and has excellent geography aligned with Pitt, Louisville and the Virginia schools.

Navy adds two big-time annual games with the Army-Navy game and Notre Dame, one of the biggest prizes of all. I note that this move would add one more Notre Dame v. ACC game to the lineup without having to negotiate anything with Notre Dame...You don't have to worry about Navy's Olympic sports and West Virginia's Olympic sports do not hurt the conference and help with more proximate scheduling.

So, if it were my call, I would add Navy and West Virginia to the ACC and realign with *scheduling* divisions for a 3-2-2-2 schedule, like this:

- Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia

- Navy, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville

- North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake

- Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

Play schools in your region every year and every other school in the conference at least twice in 4 years. Everyone still plays Notre Dame about once in three years, except for Navy who gets them annually.

CCG simply involves the top 2 teams.

(07-22-2020 06:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...then Vanderbilt, Duke and Wake Forest would all be out, probably replaced by UCF, East Carolina and Memphis. That still leaves Tennessee with two P5 teams, North Carolina actually drops from four to three, and Florida increases from three to four.

I would imagine plenty of SEC and ACC fans would just as soon make that swap now (although college presidents make those decisions and tend to be very clique-ish).

By my calculations,

Quote:Simply replacing Duke and Wake Forest with UCF and ECU would increase ACC football attendance by about 312,468 per season (based on 2 teams at 6 home games each). We can also probably assume that there would be proportional increases for regional ACC teams which hosted UCF and ECU as visitors (for instance, ECU would sell out games at NC State and UNC, while UCF would sell out Miami and FSU)...

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2020/...nimum.html

Q: do you think this kind of fan-based/market-driven realignment ever happens?
Do you think one or two current AAC teams gets "called up", all three, or none?
Curious what the fans on this board thinks (visitors please hold your comments).

ECU would also sell out games against Clemson, VT, and UVA. IF ECU was in Wake’s spot the ACC would have another larger football program in the conference to help it compete with the SEC and Big Ten.

Louisville (Maryland Replacement)
West Virginia (Instead of Pitt)
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
NC State
ECU (Instead of BC similar to VT deal)
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Florida State
UCF or USF (instead of Syracuse)
Miami

That’s a very strong football conference and still a very good basketball conference except that you don’t have a Syracuse.

(07-28-2020 10:12 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

No they wouldn’t. Making us P5 would make us directly compete for the top recruits in Florida, which means less recruits for them, and we present a direct threat to them in a lot of other ways.

Doesn't seem to hurt the Texas teams to have 5 P5 programs + Houston nipping at their heels.

(07-28-2020 11:25 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 10:14 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 03:35 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The ACC feels like it's in limbo. It's either too big and stretched to far or it needs to fill in it's current geographic footprint and go to a pod system. They cover the area of 2 conferences since eating the old Big East. So the 2 solutions are splitting the conference or expanding the conference.

There are two ways the conference could split. Geographically with the Northeast reforming a conference while the ACC picks up southern teams. Or football first programs and basketball first programs. Which without digging in to much lets say the ACC members would split like this (Clemson being the only founding member to leave):
Football = FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT, Pitt, Miami & VT
Basketball = UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Virginia, BC

For expansion let's assume that no one is leaving the SEC or Big 10. Picking up UCF, Cincinnati, West Virginia & Navy FB only allows the ACC to fill in the Atlantic coast with additional quality programs while bringing in existing rivalries between and allowing new ones to develop. West Virginia-Pitt, Cincinnati-Louisville, UCF-Miami.

I think either of those scenarios would involve UCF & Cincinnati for sure though.

The problem with your scenario is that the ACC would most likely take Memphis over a 3rd Florida school. What could UCF bring to the table that FSU and Miami already aren't bringing in spades, not to mention there's no way in hades that those two are going to allow that. With Memphis they'd get a new market solidly in SEC country that would also bring a basketball program that would please the basketball side.

The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

If the ACC was looking to solidify its footing within its existing footprint, I would suggest that West Virginia and Navy are attractive candidates. Cincinnati is probably on the short list, if you consider Cincinnati to be within the footprint...

Both Navy and West Virginia fill the geography hole created by Maryland's departure. As mentioned, West Virginia adds a true rivalry game in the Backyard Brawl and has excellent geography aligned with Pitt, Louisville and the Virginia schools.

Navy adds two big-time annual games with the Army-Navy game and Notre Dame, one of the biggest prizes of all. I note that this move would add one more Notre Dame v. ACC game to the lineup without having to negotiate anything with Notre Dame...You don't have to worry about Navy's Olympic sports and West Virginia's Olympic sports do not hurt the conference and help with more proximate scheduling.

So, if it were my call, I would add Navy and West Virginia to the ACC and realign with *scheduling* divisions for a 3-2-2-2 schedule, like this:

- Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia

- Navy, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville

- North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake

- Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

Play schools in your region every year and every other school in the conference at least twice in 4 years. Everyone still plays Notre Dame about once in three years, except for Navy who gets them annually.

CCG simply involves the top 2 teams.

- Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami
This pod is a big problem, you can't put all your biggest football brands in the same pod.

If UCF & Cincinnati/WV are added:
Southern Pod = FSU, Miami, UCF, GT
Tobacco Row Pod = Duke, UNC, NC State, WF
Mid Atlantic Pod = Clemson, Virginia, VT, Louisville
Northeast Pod = BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Cincinnati/WV

If UCF, Cincinnati, WV & Navy are added:
Southern Pod = FSU, Miami, UCF, GT, Louisville, Virginia Tech
Mid Atlantic Pod = Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
Northeast Pod = Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Navy, Cincinnati
*The southern pod is a little wacky to not split up tobacco row.

Not that it's very likely to go to 20 even in realignment scenarios but since we've gone this far lets say they go to 4 pods of 5. The ACC adds UCF, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Navy, usf & Memphis
Southern Pod = FSU, Miami, UCF, usf, GT
Tobacco Row Pod = Clemson, Duke, UNC, NC State, WF
Mid Atlantic Pod = Virginia, VT, Louisville, Navy, Memphis
Northeast Pod = BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Cincinnati, WV

(07-28-2020 04:20 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-28-2020 10:12 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(07-28-2020 08:16 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  The entire scenario was the ACC filling in it's existing area not expanding to another area. Besides currently being the biggest brand in their area the ACC could acquire UCF brings the central Florida marketplace which it has established itself in. Florida is the 3rd largest populous state and Miami and Tallahassee are very different from each other and central Florida. Another Florida trip for teams each year helps with recruits. I could go on and on.
I think Miami & FSU would welcome UCF; we're already successful in the state, Miami would benefit by having someone they can develop an in state & in conference rivalry with for their rivalry weekend. They both get another Florida program that's also football first to vote with.

No they wouldn’t. Making us P5 would make us directly compete for the top recruits in Florida, which means less recruits for them, and we present a direct threat to them in a lot of other ways.

Doesn't seem to hurt the Texas teams to have 5 P5 programs + Houston nipping at their heels.

Politics got Baylor and Texas Tech into the B12. That wouldn’t work with us. We are the absolute last school the big 3 want to be in a conference with.