(08-07-2020 10:10 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:40 AM)panama Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:19 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:00 AM)panama Wrote:  

(08-03-2020 10:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...i=BB15ms5q

If this crazy proposal gets any backing, I think I see the fracturing of the NCAA into two completely separate divisions;

The pro division, where the players are employees of the school, and get paid like employees, and...

The amateur division, where the players play for scholarships.

About 40 P5 schools would be in the pro division, and play each other.

The rest would be in the amateur division, and play each other, or give up football altogether.

The pros, like any other minor league farm system, would have playoffs.

The amateurs would have bowls.

We have been trending this way for a while. This may bring about the actual break.

University President's already have a hard full time job and no Presidents or Boards of Trustees or Regents are signing up to run a pro sports employment situation. It's not going to happen. There is no state that wants that or would even think about that seriously.

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you underestimate the power of $$$...

I easily see the flagships saying goodbye to the NCAA by '25 and forming another separate entity....

#cashcowInWait

And you underestimate college Presidents and state governments. Yes the flagships are owned by the government. What state would sign off on managing something fraught with so many issues and problems , laws and liability as professional sports or put more succinctly making athletes state employees? Zero. In the P5 brand is everything and people will watch Georgia no matter who wears the jersey. So if players want to get paid like pros they will be told well go pro.

Also the NCAA exists to take the legislative heat and headache off the universities. Nobody is leaving. As much as people on message forums make a big deal about athletics they forget that college athletics is a very small part of the University. Yes it is visible part and a marketing part but these Presidents are working multi-billion dollar operating budgets. The $$$ you refer to are not that big a deal in context.

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you're underestimating the power of state legislature and lobbyists....

who runs both factions....uni presidents will bow like they always do....

we'll see how it plays out long term....

#bookmarked

Don't know where you live but incan tell you the State of Georgia and the BOR would never go for that. They have been going in the opposite direction for 20 years, selling off non essential properties and even getting out of the on campus housing business. They are being fiscally conservative and being about solely running the universities.

And again, have to ask, why would they go through the massive effort for such a small payoff? A school like Georgia has a nearly $2B operating budget. What is the great hook that would make universities now have to go through adding 85 employees at great liability to the university?

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(08-07-2020 10:44 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:40 AM)panama Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:19 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:00 AM)panama Wrote:  

(08-03-2020 10:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...i=BB15ms5q

If this crazy proposal gets any backing, I think I see the fracturing of the NCAA into two completely separate divisions;

The pro division, where the players are employees of the school, and get paid like employees, and...

The amateur division, where the players play for scholarships.

About 40 P5 schools would be in the pro division, and play each other.

The rest would be in the amateur division, and play each other, or give up football altogether.

The pros, like any other minor league farm system, would have playoffs.

The amateurs would have bowls.

We have been trending this way for a while. This may bring about the actual break.

University President's already have a hard full time job and no Presidents or Boards of Trustees or Regents are signing up to run a pro sports employment situation. It's not going to happen. There is no state that wants that or would even think about that seriously.

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you underestimate the power of $$$...

I easily see the flagships saying goodbye to the NCAA by '25 and forming another separate entity....

#cashcowInWait

And you underestimate college Presidents and state governments. Yes the flagships are owned by the government. What state would sign off on managing something fraught with so many issues and problems , laws and liability as professional sports or put more succinctly making athletes state employees? Zero. In the P5 brand is everything and people will watch Georgia no matter who wears the jersey. So if players want to get paid like pros they will be told well go pro.

Also the NCAA exists to take the legislative heat and headache off the universities. Nobody is leaving. As much as people on message forums make a big deal about athletics they forget that college athletics is a very small part of the University. Yes it is visible part and a marketing part but these Presidents are working multi-billion dollar operating budgets. The $$$ you refer to are not that big a deal in context.

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I can see them trying to create another division under the 'college and NCAA flag' but I 100% agree no way with you ever see a University of ___ semi or pro team in football. Even if for some stupid reason the presidents at these schools thought about doing just that. They would have to know you cant just do that for football.

Football they are getting just about all the money, right now, without doing anything. Those same schools are taking all the bowl slots and TV slots. No way in the world they want to open the can of worms of paying players as employees. I can see them passing a few new rules to put some more dollars in the pockets of college athletes. But that is as far as they want to go.

If they do that and make it a conference rule, fans of G5 schools will say...we cant do that or compete with that. What part do these fans not understand, not one of our school is competing with them, today. Not on the field. Not on TV. Not in dollars. Not in bowl slots. Not in fighting for a championship slot.

The only thing we have in common, under the same flag and that's it. The $223,879,781 that Texas took in last year on sports is not going to increase to a billion if we started calling them semi pro football. Will the NFL pick them up as a D-League and push 100s of millions of dollars to them? I dont think so because if the NFL WANTED that...

they would already have it. It cl;ear the NFL would rather have a practice teams...a lot cheaper

The P5 already added another layer. It's called P5. They have everything they want. They have all the TV money and all the power. Why add another layer tend incur the wrath of Senators, Congressmen and Governors whose state flagship's would end up on the wrong side of the line?

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(08-07-2020 09:40 AM)panama Wrote:  What state would sign off on managing something fraught with so many issues and problems , laws and liability as professional sports or put more succinctly making athletes state employees?

Any state controlled by progressives. They are much more concerned with "fairness" than avoiding problems.

(08-07-2020 01:38 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:40 AM)panama Wrote:  What state would sign off on managing something fraught with so many issues and problems , laws and liability as professional sports or put more succinctly making athletes state employees?

Any state controlled by progressives. They are much more concerned with "fairness" than avoiding problems.

So...sponsoring Profesional Sports.

Lol

No

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(08-07-2020 01:53 PM)panama Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 01:38 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 09:40 AM)panama Wrote:  What state would sign off on managing something fraught with so many issues and problems , laws and liability as professional sports or put more succinctly making athletes state employees?

Any state controlled by progressives. They are much more concerned with "fairness" than avoiding problems.

So...sponsoring Profesional Sports.

Lol

No

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No, they would not see it as 'sponsoring professional sports", but rather as "letting athletes be fairly compensated for their work."

But let's wait five years and see which states are the leaders in this.

California is my nominee.

You mean a stipend?

Because if it's Salary and benefits as a state employee that Profesional Sports. If it's a stipend or more of one than what is allowable now then nothing changes from today.

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https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/07/pa...er-boycott

"Pac-12 leaders pushed back against the players’ demand for each sports’ participants to receive a cut of the conference revenue. Conference officials told #WeAreUnited members that such a move would lead to athletes becoming employees and would impact those athletes who do not participate in revenue-generating sports. The two sides did not discuss #WeAreUnited’s demand for Scott and others within the conference to take a salary reduction"

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(08-06-2020 11:43 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 10:24 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 09:18 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(08-04-2020 03:51 PM)FAU Connoisseur! Wrote:  

(08-03-2020 01:44 PM)inutech Wrote:  Sort of.

You gotta take all those reported athletic department deficits with a grain of salt. Lots of creative (and diverse) reporting going on there. Athletic scholarships don't really cost schools real money (or at least not in any real sense).

You've also got to write some of those costs off as marketing for the whole school.

Didn't we learn anything from UAB's "reports?"

Scholarship expense whether you think there is a cash transaction or not will be replaced with salaries and that will be a cash transaction and deduction for tax purposes.

On a different note, will big donors want to donate money for facilities? I don't think I would. Will coaches salaries be constrained because now the most important thing will be talent? Lot of interesting possibilities.

It's certainly possible that if they replaced scholarships with salaries (or added salaries to scholarships) they would then actually be in the red.

What I'm contesting is that most are truly in that situation now (or were pre-COVID). Every year we see these "shocking" reports about how all but like 5 college athletic departments are running at horrible deficits and it's all so awful. But then every year the coach gets a raise or a new coach gets a crazy buy-out clause, and that shiny new locker-room opens, and the AD hires 10 new tutors and 5 new associate SIDs and 3 video analysts. Because the books are cooked.

I'm not saying that wouldn't change if schools had to pay athletes minimum wage or something. Sure, it might.

And certainly the pandemic is hurting departments pretty bad.

But this "they all operate in the red" narrative just isn't what it's often proclaimed to be.

The Top 20 to 30 P5 football schools need to simply break away from the NCAA, and start their own College Professional Football League (CPFL). These large schools (LSU, Alabama, Ohio St, etc...) will truly be running a money-driven professional football league from their own campuses, using their own schools resources. They'll be free to pay big salaries to their players and coaches, negotiate TV and media contracts for their schools and they will NOT have to require players to attend class. Remember, these CPFL schools are no longer in the NCAA, so they can literally make up their own rules.

The rest of us --some 100-110 schools made up of G5's and the left over remaining P5's-- will continue to compete in an NCAA amateur sports league, just like we do today. These NCAA players will go to class, receive scholarships and play in bowl games, just like they do today. They'll just be playing as amateurs. For this NCAA group, almost nothing changes.

I actually like this format. I think this strategy would clean things up a bit, and give the NCAA schools room to breathe without being dictated to by a few large schools that are only interested in their own best interest.

This would work.

What makes you think the only players after a piece of the pie play at those 30 or so schools? The pie might be the biggest and best damn pie on this earth at those 30 schools....

but there always going to be those players wanting to stick their thumb in the day old pies to get their share. So nothing really changes unless the courts or NCAA and then the courts rule on this. At this point too many idiots (schools) opened the door and didnt know to close it, after those wanting money to play college football was pushed or kicked out that door.

It's simple, if you want the best damn pie in the world --with all the whistles and bells, and all the big money-- you sign with a "CPFL" school, and play in their professional league. However, if your interests are more educational, you can always play at an NCAA school where YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE, you'll never get paid a salary, and you'll have to go to class.

...yeah PAC 12 says no

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