(06-25-2020 05:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 01:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 09:18 AM)texoma Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 08:36 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 06:20 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  I concur, that post made it clear that Texas shouldn't want to be part of the ACC, ever.

Touche. However, travel costs aside, Clemson is as good if not better than Oklahoma in football and Texas could still play OU in an OOC game every year. Baylor and Virginia Tech are at least roughly equivalent for FB and Louisville, Virginia, Duke, UNC and Florida State are all better all-sports programs than West Virginia, Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas and Iowa State. The ACC's academics record (UNC notwithstanding) is still significantly better than the Big XII. That being said, it would not surprise me if Texas were to see the financial benefits in getting "Notre Dame" deal from the ACC. They could go independent in football and then park all of its other sports in the ACC, sell their T1 rights to ESPN/ABC to try and boost carriage of LHN, and then have 6-7 guaranteed games against ACC teams, with the road games going onto the ACC ESPN channel and most home games on ESPN or ABC with simulcast on LHN. Thrown in an annual game against ND as part of that deal, plus an annual game against OU, and UT would still have 3-4 openings each year to schedule intersectional matchups with schools like Ohio State, USC, UCLA, Michigan, LSU, Bama and other Lonestar state schools like Baylor, TCU, TTU, Rice or, dare to dream, A&M.

Texas will not place their other sports teams on a island where they have to travel to Syracuse, Boston, Miami etc., to play away conference games. Texas can do a lot better than that and they will.

Yes. ACC is not happening. For that matter, no matter how much money and how much Big 10 schools look like Texas, that is not happening either.

That's the value of patience.
Texas to the ACC as a partial might have happened a few years ago, but everyone (schools, conferences and media) learned a great lesson for the last flurry of expansion/realignment that saw Rutgers and Maryland going to the B1G, Pitt and Syracuse going to the ACC and A&M and Missouri going to the SEC. There were multiple stupid moves made.
Starting with the consultants ESPN hired to assist Swofford to move from 9 to 12, realignment has been botched. And if the truth was known, the entire process was probably undermined by Notre Dame and their desire to remain independent/ or what turned out to be ESPN's greed in trying to land the Irish any way possible.
The irony is that Notre Dame's TV numbers aren't that stellar. The demand to see the Irish is down in places like Chapel Hill and Winston-Salem, where empty seats were spotted on Notre Dame's last visits, especially in the visitors sections. It seems that the Catholic population of Raleigh (which outnumbers Baptists) doesn't have the same "subway alumni" feeling found in the Northeast.
Texas was smart to stay put........they will be smarter yet to stay exactly where they are in the round coming up.
Schools are going to get shuffled but the pipe dream of 4 x 16 is dead.

Looking back at the SEC's history though, I have to wonder if LSU could have made a better decision to join the SWC/Big 12 instead of joining the SEC out of the SoCon. LSU puts all of their non revenue sports in with that group, so you have to wonder if Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Missouri doesn't happen if LSU never joined the SEC

LSU would have bolted the SWC with Arkansas in the 90's if not before. But it would have been pretty big to have a Big 12 south Division of Texas, Tech, aggy, ou, osu and LSU.

If I’m not mistaken, the figures that founded the SWC earnestly wanted Ole Miss and LSU to take part in their little endeavor.

The SWC formed in 1915.

The SoCon formed in 1921.

Texas was in the SIAA for only a short time in the late 19th Century and the SWC was the baby of Texas' AD.

Given that the Kingfish ran LSU as well as the rest of the State, and the Kingfish wanted tourism in New Orleans and Tulane and given that both Dallas and Houston would be rivals with New Orleans, I can't see Long allowing that to happen and LSU staying is what kept Ole Miss and the SEC that split from the SoCon had Atlanta and New Orleans as their two party towns.

The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

And most importantly ESPN keeps all of the schools within the paygrade that is acceptable to ESPN.

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

Just a side point, but that also moves the center of the SEC from Birmingham to New Orleans - thus solidifying the Sugar Bowl (and maybe even makes the SEC consider moving the SEC CG there?)

(07-20-2020 10:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

Just a side point, but that also moves the center of the SEC from Birmingham to New Orleans - thus solidifying the Sugar Bowl (and maybe even makes the SEC consider moving the SEC CG there?)

Somehow, someway Jerry Jones would make the center of the conference at his playhouse.. and move the offices to Frisco TX

(07-20-2020 10:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 10:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

Just a side point, but that also moves the center of the SEC from Birmingham to New Orleans - thus solidifying the Sugar Bowl (and maybe even makes the SEC consider moving the SEC CG there?)

Somehow, someway Jerry Jones would make the center of the conference at his playhouse.. and move the offices to Frisco TX

Actually the geographic center of the Conference would be closer to Starkville. But New Orleans is preferable.

What I would envision at some point would be a conference semi in DFW and Atlanta with the Conference Championship in New Orleans. Monetizing the conference effectively says that having 4 schools out of 16 to advance to a conference playoff would be worth another 100-120 million in revenue.

(07-20-2020 10:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 08:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The following SWC would still be here today - if you could ever get LSU onboard:

North - Kansas, Mizzou, KSU, Oklahoma, OSU, Arkansas
South - Texas, TAMU, Baylor, LSU, TT, Ole Miss

Doing that is tough because to have made it happen, Nebraska and Colorado probably have to be out of the B8/B12, and you can't have TCU, Houston, Rice, and SMU creating a problem. The final problem is the ego of Texas.

Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

Just a side point, but that also moves the center of the SEC from Birmingham to New Orleans - thus solidifying the Sugar Bowl (and maybe even makes the SEC consider moving the SEC CG there?)

If the SEC moves out of Atlanta for their CG....the ACC moves in!

(07-19-2020 08:17 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, the figures that founded the SWC earnestly wanted Ole Miss and LSU to take part in their little endeavor.

LSU was at the charter meeting of the SWC but decided not to join.

If LSU joins the SWC at it’s founding, Tulane probably does too at some point soon thereafter and with so many private schools in the SWC Tulane is able to stay competitive and their football program never nose dives. The Sugar Bowl positions itself as the home of both the SWC and SEC champions while the Cotton becomes a SWC #2 vs Big 8 #2 affair (the Big 8’s champ goes to the Orange Bowl against an at large)

let’s say they still add TTU in the 50s and Houston in the 70s.

If they can handle the scandals of 80s they’d emerge into the 90s with:

Arkansas, SMU, TCU, TTU, Texas, Baylor, TAMU, Rice, Houston, LSU, Tulane—11 schools

The SEC would be at 9 and the Big 8 has their 8.

I think it’s really hard to guess who raids who. The SWC has size but some weak sisters.

Does the Big 8 and/or SEC come in and Raid the cream of the crop or does the SWC pull Oklahoma from the Big 8? That scenario would leave the Big 8 in a tight spot and potentially vulnerable to the Big 10. They’d need to look to the WAC to fill the very large hole left by the Sooners.

(08-16-2020 06:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does the Big 8 and/or SEC come in and Raid the cream of the crop or does the SWC pull Oklahoma from the Big 8? That scenario would leave the Big 8 in a tight spot and potentially vulnerable to the Big 10. They’d need to look to the WAC to fill the very large hole left by the Sooners.

Actually, OU and Oklahoma A&M (now State) started in the SWC and only moved to what became the Big8 in the early 20's. So you've got it backwards - the question would be whether OU and the Aggies (then Cowboys) would still move away. And, it was OU's move that allowed TCU to be invited (effective 1923). The Frogs had remained loyal to the TIAA, which was Texas' first conference and had included several founding SWC schools (who defected).

(07-20-2020 10:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 10:45 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 10:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 04:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Which is precisely why this now works potentially for the SEC:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

or just this:
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I would imagine that this would be ESPN's dream.
Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida in the east.
Then add West Virginia and a full time Notre Dame (or Cincinnati if the Irish won't budge) to the ACC and it's all they would ever need.
The PAC remains the same, the B1G is forced to take what's left on the table (Kansas and Iowa State).
The AAC becomes a 16 conference team with the Big 12 leftovers.

Just a side point, but that also moves the center of the SEC from Birmingham to New Orleans - thus solidifying the Sugar Bowl (and maybe even makes the SEC consider moving the SEC CG there?)

Somehow, someway Jerry Jones would make the center of the conference at his playhouse.. and move the offices to Frisco TX

Actually the geographic center of the Conference would be closer to Starkville. But New Orleans is preferable.

What I would envision at some point would be a conference semi in DFW and Atlanta with the Conference Championship in New Orleans. Monetizing the conference effectively says that having 4 schools out of 16 to advance to a conference playoff would be worth another 100-120 million in revenue.

Make it so.

(08-16-2020 08:50 PM)Jared7 Wrote:  

(08-16-2020 06:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does the Big 8 and/or SEC come in and Raid the cream of the crop or does the SWC pull Oklahoma from the Big 8? That scenario would leave the Big 8 in a tight spot and potentially vulnerable to the Big 10. They’d need to look to the WAC to fill the very large hole left by the Sooners.

Actually, OU and Oklahoma A&M (now State) started in the SWC and only moved to what became the Big8 in the early 20's. So you've got it backwards - the question would be whether OU and the Aggies (then Cowboys) would still move away. And, it was OU's move that allowed TCU to be invited (effective 1923). The Frogs had remained loyal to the TIAA, which was Texas' first conference and had included several founding SWC schools (who defected).

That’s an interesting line of thought. If the Oklahoma schools never leave and the LA schools are in there too that’s a very strong start. Let’s say TCU still comes in during the 20s—that’s your 11th. TTU makes 12.

Houston may not have ever been added.

(08-17-2020 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-16-2020 08:50 PM)Jared7 Wrote:  

(08-16-2020 06:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does the Big 8 and/or SEC come in and Raid the cream of the crop or does the SWC pull Oklahoma from the Big 8? That scenario would leave the Big 8 in a tight spot and potentially vulnerable to the Big 10. They’d need to look to the WAC to fill the very large hole left by the Sooners.

Actually, OU and Oklahoma A&M (now State) started in the SWC and only moved to what became the Big8 in the early 20's. So you've got it backwards - the question would be whether OU and the Aggies (then Cowboys) would still move away. And, it was OU's move that allowed TCU to be invited (effective 1923). The Frogs had remained loyal to the TIAA, which was Texas' first conference and had included several founding SWC schools (who defected).

That’s an interesting line of thought. If the Oklahoma schools never leave and the LA schools are in there too that’s a very strong start. Let’s say TCU still comes in during the 20s—that’s your 11th. TTU makes 12.

Houston may not have ever been added.

In this scenario:

• The SWC is formed with UT, A&M, Rice, Baylor, SMU, OU, OSU, Arkansas, LSU, Tulane, and Ole Miss.
• OU and Oklahoma A&M never go to the Missouri Valley.
• LSU, Tulane, and Ole Miss never go to the SEC.
• TCU is added in 1923 to make 12.
• Tech bangs on the door for years, as they did with the SWC.
  

Does Tulane leave this version of the SWC in 1965, as they did the SEC? If so, Tech replaces them.

Houston most likely remains on the outside looking in, unless the SWC wants 13 teams. Also, Mississippi State remains in the SEC with Alabama but separated from Ole Miss.

This SWC would have stood a greater chance of survival.

I would love to have seen this conference.

(08-19-2020 04:24 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-17-2020 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-16-2020 08:50 PM)Jared7 Wrote:  

(08-16-2020 06:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does the Big 8 and/or SEC come in and Raid the cream of the crop or does the SWC pull Oklahoma from the Big 8? That scenario would leave the Big 8 in a tight spot and potentially vulnerable to the Big 10. They’d need to look to the WAC to fill the very large hole left by the Sooners.

Actually, OU and Oklahoma A&M (now State) started in the SWC and only moved to what became the Big8 in the early 20's. So you've got it backwards - the question would be whether OU and the Aggies (then Cowboys) would still move away. And, it was OU's move that allowed TCU to be invited (effective 1923). The Frogs had remained loyal to the TIAA, which was Texas' first conference and had included several founding SWC schools (who defected).

That’s an interesting line of thought. If the Oklahoma schools never leave and the LA schools are in there too that’s a very strong start. Let’s say TCU still comes in during the 20s—that’s your 11th. TTU makes 12.

Houston may not have ever been added.

In this scenario:

• The SWC is formed with UT, A&M, Rice, Baylor, SMU, OU, OSU, Arkansas, LSU, Tulane, and Ole Miss.
• OU and Oklahoma A&M never go to the Missouri Valley.
• LSU, Tulane, and Ole Miss never go to the SEC.
• TCU is added in 1923 to make 12.
• Tech bangs on the door for years, as they did with the SWC.
  

Does Tulane leave this version of the SWC in 1965, as they did the SEC? If so, Tech replaces them.

Houston most likely remains on the outside looking in, unless the SWC wants 13 teams. Also, Mississippi State remains in the SEC with Alabama but separated from Ole Miss.

This SWC would have stood a greater chance of survival.

I would love to have seen this conference.

Had all those things fallen into line that would have been a great conference.

If TTU gets held out of the league I think they go from the Border Conference to the WAC when it gets founded. The 1970s WAC would have been pretty awesome with TTU, BYU, and the AZ schools—they still lose the AZ schools though.

It’s a head scratcher what happens to Houston. Does TTU drag the WAC footprint East to bring Houston (and UNT?) into the WAC? Does Houston stay Indy until C-USA forms?

Without LSU, Tulane, and Ole Miss in the SEC do they look East? Maybe grabbing S.C. and Clemson in the 70s and then FSU in the 90s would be their course.