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Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-17-2020 02:50 PM)DukeDogNation Wrote:  With regards to your last point, I wrote this up on another forum and figure I'd post it here.

On one hand, I'm worried about what happens when the football season is cancelled/postponed and/or it's announced that classes will be moved online. I would imagine without any more stimulus, many restaurants and small businesses that cater to students and visitors associated with the college will have to close up shop.

On the other hand, I'm worried about the town's ability to keep up with their COVID procedures given a ~20,000 person influx into town when school opens. What do the grocery stores look like? What do the downtown bars and restaurants look like? While many people feel confident that college students, on the whole, won't get severely sick from COVID, but some will. And those who get COVID and don't get very sick may spread it to people who work in those support businesses. How will the hospital handle that influx of cases?

Never going to happen but if I had a magic wand...all students and staff do a strict self quarantine at home for two weeks before returning to Harrisonburg.
07-20-2020 06:10 PM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-20-2020 06:10 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  Never going to happen but if I had a magic wand...all students and staff do a strict self quarantine at home for two weeks before returning to Harrisonburg.

I agree with that as a desirable action, but COVID is being spread in Harrisonburg and the surrounding communities even without students here. Even if none of them bring fire with them, that's a lot more kindling for the fire. I would appreciate that they avoid their own unnessecary large gatherings while they're in town, but I expect them to be going to grocery stores or retail stores to buy necessities, picking up food from restaurants, etc. that could expose them to the virus or be opportunities for spread.

Then we get into things that they're required to do for classes like rotations in the hospitals, internships, practicums/student teaching in schools, etc. and we're looking at a lot of contacts with a wide network of people.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2020 08:05 PM by DukeDogNation.)
07-20-2020 08:04 PM
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Wear Purple Online
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Post: #23
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-20-2020 08:04 PM)DukeDogNation Wrote:  
(07-20-2020 06:10 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  Never going to happen but if I had a magic wand...all students and staff do a strict self quarantine at home for two weeks before returning to Harrisonburg.

I agree with that as a desirable action, but COVID is being spread in Harrisonburg and the surrounding communities even without students here. Even if none of them bring fire with them, that's a lot more kindling for the fire. I would appreciate that they avoid their own unnessecary large gatherings while they're in town, but I expect them to be going to grocery stores or retail stores to buy necessities, picking up food from restaurants, etc. that could expose them to the virus or be opportunities for spread.

Then we get into things that they're required to do for classes like rotations in the hospitals, internships, practicums/student teaching in schools, etc. and we're looking at a lot of contacts with a wide network of people.

"Kindling for the fire"...a great illustrative way of putting it. Well done.

Let's be honest here...on one hand I fully understand and on the other hand I hope college students fully grasp what the ramifications are of irresponsible behavior. Wait, did I just say college students should understand what happens from irresponsible behavior? Silly me.

Thousands of students have been shacked up at home for months. Incoming freshmen weren't able to graduate properly in most all cases. Many have been under Mom & Dad's wings and are just itching to get out and let loose. I mean, even without COVID that is normally the case. And now? Add in some feeling of invincibility ("it doesn't affect young people" belief) and you definitely indeed have a major load of kindling about to convene on college campuses all across America.

Btw, I'm not advocating one way or the other that college students should/shouldn't be on campuses. I'll leave that to the universities and health professionals. As for my much better half and I, we will continue to avoid high traffic areas in college towns where students tend to hang out - at least until we have a vaccine and/or feel that it is much safer. JMU, like most any state university, employs thousands of faculty and staff. I am concerned for them I must admit - or, at any college/K-12 school for that matter.

Like so often happens, it will likely be the few that cause the most problems for the masses.
07-21-2020 06:16 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
So if baseball starts on Thursday, is this tread relevant? COGS
07-21-2020 08:51 AM
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JMad03 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 08:51 AM)Dukester Wrote:  So if baseball starts on Thursday, is this tread relevant? COGS

Yes, because baseball is a spring/summer sport.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2020 10:03 AM by JMad03.)
07-21-2020 10:02 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 10:02 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  
(07-21-2020 08:51 AM)Dukester Wrote:  So if baseball starts on Thursday, is this tread relevant? COGS

Yes, because baseball is a spring/summer sport.


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07-21-2020 12:39 PM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 06:16 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  Let's be honest here...on one hand I fully understand and on the other hand I hope college students fully grasp what the ramifications are of irresponsible behavior. Wait, did I just say college students should understand what happens from irresponsible behavior? Silly me.

Thousands of students have been shacked up at home for months. Incoming freshmen weren't able to graduate properly in most all cases. Many have been under Mom & Dad's wings and are just itching to get out and let loose. I mean, even without COVID that is normally the case. And now? Add in some feeling of invincibility ("it doesn't affect young people" belief) and you definitely indeed have a major load of kindling about to convene on college campuses all across America.

I think the irresponsible behavior has to be part of the conversation, but I'm saying that even as a baseline of all students acting responsibly within the bounds of allowed activities within Phase III, by the very nature of operating in community there is more kindling for that fire.

The virus doesn't spread on its own, it spreads based on humans' behaviors. So any alteration you make to the community's behavior is going to have an effect up or down on transmission and infection. Adding 20,000 people, assuming some students stay home, to the town's population will have an effect on the numbers which will have an effect on the local hospital. This is not a nightmare gloom and doom scenario, this is just how numbers work.

The counter argument would be that college kids are less likely to get severely sick or die from it, which is not untrue, but that doesn't really address the point at hand. More people in the community increases the risk of not only an increase in the numbers of infected, but also an increase in the rate of transmission. So by interacting with full-time town residents through normal interactions, the students being present in town increase the likelihood that more people full-time residents will get it, too.
07-21-2020 12:51 PM
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JMaddy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 12:51 PM)DukeDogNation Wrote:  
(07-21-2020 06:16 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  Let's be honest here...on one hand I fully understand and on the other hand I hope college students fully grasp what the ramifications are of irresponsible behavior. Wait, did I just say college students should understand what happens from irresponsible behavior? Silly me.

Thousands of students have been shacked up at home for months. Incoming freshmen weren't able to graduate properly in most all cases. Many have been under Mom & Dad's wings and are just itching to get out and let loose. I mean, even without COVID that is normally the case. And now? Add in some feeling of invincibility ("it doesn't affect young people" belief) and you definitely indeed have a major load of kindling about to convene on college campuses all across America.

I think the irresponsible behavior has to be part of the conversation, but I'm saying that even as a baseline of all students acting responsibly within the bounds of allowed activities within Phase III, by the very nature of operating in community there is more kindling for that fire.

The virus doesn't spread on its own, it spreads based on humans' behaviors. So any alteration you make to the community's behavior is going to have an effect up or down on transmission and infection. Adding 20,000 people, assuming some students stay home, to the town's population will have an effect on the numbers which will have an effect on the local hospital. This is not a nightmare gloom and doom scenario, this is just how numbers work.

The counter argument would be that college kids are less likely to get severely sick or die from it, which is not untrue, but that doesn't really address the point at hand. More people in the community increases the risk of not only an increase in the numbers of infected, but also an increase in the rate of transmission. So by interacting with full-time town residents through normal interactions, the students being present in town increase the likelihood that more people full-time residents will get it, too.

I would think your Joe/Jane Q. JMU (student) is going to be more likely to take precautions like wearing masks in public than Joe/Jane Q. Public, no?
07-21-2020 02:37 PM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 02:37 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  I would think your Joe/Jane Q. JMU (student) is going to be more likely to take precautions like wearing masks in public than Joe/Jane Q. Public, no?

If we're speaking from a relatively objective point of view, my answer would be, "I'm not sure." I can do some research into the rate of participation in COVID procedures for college aged students and get back to you.

The only point I'm making is that more people in town means more risk of transmission and cases. There would be very few ways that we know of that a student coming back to town could have no impact on the increase of the rate of transmission or cases. College students are just like the rest of us, they go to the grocery store, they get gas, they live with each other, they go to restaurants, etc. The more interactions that happen with people, the more risk there is of transmission. There are interactions that are more risky than others and less risky than others, but they all include some risk. Not to mention that as we move into the fall and winter, being out doors will be a decreasingly available option for things like dining.

Precautions are precautions they're not perfect. I 100% agree with wearing a mask when you are out doing necessary errands, but I would also tell you to limit your travel only to necessary errands. (And before you ask, I have been practicing this myself since the beginning of the pandemic. It was more important and possible for me for personal reasons and yes it has been both difficult and unpopular. Because of my own reasons, I'm very glad I did take that course of action because my concerns were validated.) I think of it like the old saying "reduce, reuse, recycle" there's a reason reduce comes first, because it's the best thing to do of the three. When you can't reduce, you reuse, and when you can't reuse you recycle. In this case it's "limit contacts, limit closeness, wear a mask". So yes, if you have to interact with people wear a mask, but my primary suggestion for everyone is to interact with people less.

Getting back to the point at hand, having 20,000 people move to town who limited themselves to only essential travel and wore masks in public would still have a non-zero, non-negative effect on the risk of transmission of the disease. What amount of risk that scenario would lead to I can't say. But realistically we would have about 20,000 17-22 year old humans coming into town with all of the positives and negatives of that. All I want people to consider is that there are positives and negatives, both known and unknown.
07-21-2020 03:32 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
Have really enjoyed your posting on this topic, DukeDogNation. Just wanted to tell you that.
07-21-2020 08:48 PM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 08:48 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Have really enjoyed your posting on this topic, DukeDogNation. Just wanted to tell you that.

Thanks, I appreciate that! I read a lot about this topic and was a history major at JMU, so I like to think I have decent research and critical thinking skills. It takes a decent amount of time to write up and format the posts, so my posting will drop off over the next couple weeks as my amount of free time decreases. But thanks again for taking the time to leave a positive comment!
07-21-2020 08:54 PM
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JMad03 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 12:39 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(07-21-2020 10:02 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  
(07-21-2020 08:51 AM)Dukester Wrote:  So if baseball starts on Thursday, is this tread relevant? COGS

Yes, because baseball is a spring/summer sport.


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07-22-2020 07:19 AM
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DukeThaDawg Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
I've Been thinking about the ramifications to the JMU football program, and to the current players---IF there IS a football season, and JMU sits it out.
The assumption is that there are games to be scheduled. Madia has made it clear that right now,there are alot more games out there that can be scheduled than people think.
With the Ivy, Patriot, MEAC, CAA and SWAC, and Hampton (Individually from their conference) cancelling their seasons. With the Big 10 and Pac 12 going conference only---There are alot of holes to be filled.
Some P5/G5 have gone public stating their intention to fill open dates.
Hawaii already gave Robert Morris a body-bag game.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/07/1...-schedule/
Texas Tech amd Southern Miss are looking to fill body bag game losses with the cancellation of the SWAC
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...2798388224
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdaJp6FU4AAy...name=large

IF there IS a season and JMU sits it out, this will be devastating to the program. JMU outspends everyone in the FCS, they spend more than the vast majority of G5 programs---Forget about the money coming from student fees---they have spent what they've spent, and now they are considered along with NDSU as THE premier FCS programs. JMU is legitimately able to sell the notion to it's fanbase and recruits that it is a better program than the vast majority of G5's. If there is a season and they can't cobble together a season, then all that crumbles.
With the assumption that there are dates available---How bad does it look that Big Sky, Southland, the lowly NEC are having media days and intend to go forward with their seasons?? When the OVC commissioner says her conference will exhaust all possibilities to play in the fall
https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/12...8215503883
https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/12...8047285248
JMU spends more than double what the top teams in these conferences spend.

Madia has reported that Bourne said JMU is staying open minded to all possibilities. If that is so, then I would hope Bourne would be open to the possibility of getting on a plane to take a "body-bag" game (Like Robert Morris is doing with Hawaii) And getting on a plane to play UMass and Uconn, who are gonna be looking to desperately fill spots.

I dread the ramifications to this program IF there IS a season and JMU does NOT play. The JMU football brand may be irreparably damaged. For a guy like Cignetti who cares so much about brand and legacy---does he stick around?
What about the 5th year seniors?? How long does JMU wait to put together a season, because if there is a season, and JMU does not play---those 5th year seniors are out of eligibility. Who knows if the NCAA will grant them a waiver if other teams play and JMU does not. Those kids need to know the situation asap because if JMU can't put together a season, and other teams are playing---those kids need to hit the transfer portal asap to salvage their last year of eligibility.
And what about the true seniors?? They may decide to move on, take a redshirt, and play out their last year at a more stable situation.
And, if we do not play, I'd predict we lose some of our 2021 recruits. JMU has some 3* who have options, they may look to reevaluate and take another look at their other options.
If there is a season then JMU needs to do everything in their power to play or the ramifications may be irreparable.
07-22-2020 12:24 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-21-2020 08:54 PM)DukeDogNation Wrote:  
(07-21-2020 08:48 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Have really enjoyed your posting on this topic, DukeDogNation. Just wanted to tell you that.

Thanks, I appreciate that! I read a lot about this topic and was a history major at JMU, so I like to think I have decent research and critical thinking skills. It takes a decent amount of time to write up and format the posts, so my posting will drop off over the next couple weeks as my amount of free time decreases. But thanks again for taking the time to leave a positive comment!

+1
Been meaning to call you one of these days and tell you that. I will soon!
07-23-2020 12:24 AM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(07-23-2020 12:24 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  +1
Been meaning to call you one of these days and tell you that. I will soon!

Thanks! Miss running into you guys around town and grabbing a beer! Hopefully we'll be able to again sooner rather than later!
07-23-2020 01:50 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
With JMU football cancelled,I am eager to see the impact to Harrisonburg and elsewhere.
08-07-2020 09:19 PM
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Anders Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(08-07-2020 09:19 PM)hburg Wrote:  With JMU football cancelled,I am eager to see the impact to Harrisonburg and elsewhere.

Even with no games in the fall I think I will feel the urge to get to Hburg and get a cheesesteak from Urgies or stop by Union Station. Maybe get an airbnb and go for a hike one weekend.
08-07-2020 10:13 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(08-07-2020 10:13 PM)Anders Wrote:  
(08-07-2020 09:19 PM)hburg Wrote:  With JMU football cancelled,I am eager to see the impact to Harrisonburg and elsewhere.

Even with no games in the fall I think I will feel the urge to get to Hburg and get a cheesesteak from Urgies or stop by Union Station. Maybe get an airbnb and go for a hike one weekend.

If you like craft beer, have you been to friendly fermenter?
08-08-2020 11:24 AM
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Anders Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
(08-08-2020 11:24 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  
(08-07-2020 10:13 PM)Anders Wrote:  
(08-07-2020 09:19 PM)hburg Wrote:  With JMU football cancelled,I am eager to see the impact to Harrisonburg and elsewhere.

Even with no games in the fall I think I will feel the urge to get to Hburg and get a cheesesteak from Urgies or stop by Union Station. Maybe get an airbnb and go for a hike one weekend.

If you like craft beer, have you been to friendly fermenter?

That’s a great idea as well. Plenty to do in the burg this fall and hopefully our businesses can take the lower traffic.
08-08-2020 01:42 PM
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DukeDogNation Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Ramifications of No Fall Sports College and Pro
100% speculation, but I really feel like within the next week or so we'll hear that there will be a remote fall semester at JMU. Walking through campus today, it really reminded me how many modifications would have to be made to the college experience in order to safely conduct in-person classes. Pair that with prestigious universities like Princeton announcing classes will be remote this fall and to me it feels all but inevitable.

The bars, restaurants, and hotels will feel the hit immediately. I suspect that if a fall semester is moved remote, you'll see a handful of businesses decide to close temporarily or permanently. There will be other businesses that support the University that likely have to close: t-shirt printing companies, convenience stores, etc. A lot more of the retail in town is sustained by local and regional shoppers, so much of that should survive as long as needed.

If JMU decides not to have fall classes, my suggestion would be to purchase gift cards from your favorite Harrisonburg eateries. That would give them cash on hand to get through the immediate future while allowing you to purchase from them at a later, safer date. Contributing to Harrisonburg Downtown Renaissance would be another option or really any other local charity.

It's going to be tough times ahead, maybe tougher than we've already seen. Stay safe out there everyone and support your local businesses!
08-08-2020 02:54 PM
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