For your discussion.

College Finances

The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

clt says the ecu numbers are appalling. The school contributed $22M last year!

It is clear that Charlotte and ODU are breaking away as the elite flagships.

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

I saw this and was not happy about it. But congratulations.

My question is... With all that extra revenue, why did Charlotte have to sand down their old basketball court and repaint it? Couldn't you afford to just buy a new court?

(07-16-2020 04:57 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

I saw this and was not happy about it. But congratulations.

My question is... With all that extra revenue, why did Charlotte have to sand down their old basketball court and repaint it? Couldn't you afford to just buy a new court?

clt says we had a coupon from Lowe’s.

(07-16-2020 04:57 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  My question is... With all that extra revenue, why did Charlotte have to sand down their old basketball court and repaint it? Couldn't you afford to just buy a new court?

The trick here is to sand down past the recent years and get back to pre-2005, then seal it quickly before the mojo leaks out.

(07-16-2020 04:47 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

clt says the ecu numbers are appalling. The school contributed $22M last year!

It is clear that Charlotte and ODU are breaking away as the elite flagships.

Lots of subsidies in this conference including those 2 flagships.

(07-16-2020 08:38 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:47 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

clt says the ecu numbers are appalling. The school contributed $22M last year!

It is clear that Charlotte and ODU are breaking away as the elite flagships.

Lots of subsidies in this conference including those 2 flagships.

Gotta take a W when you can get it.

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

Or take the ECU AD word with some skepticism.

Does it hurt anyone’s feelings that Tech wins so much in so many sports with just the change we found in LSU’s couch? I jest, it’s really embarrassing to only be able to drum up a measly 25 million in revenue given the success we have had in Baseball, Basketball and Football. I really would like to know what we could do with ODU or ECU money.

(07-16-2020 05:00 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:57 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:26 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  The first thing I notice is that ECU has a $3.5 million surplus, when their AD says they are running a $5-6 million annual deficit, so take these numbers with some skepticism.

The second thing I notice is that Charlotte has moved into #2 in revenue in C-USA behind ODU, which means our elite tennis facility may be getting needlessly upgraded soon.

I saw this and was not happy about it. But congratulations.

My question is... With all that extra revenue, why did Charlotte have to sand down their old basketball court and repaint it? Couldn't you afford to just buy a new court?

clt says we had a coupon from Lowe’s.

I knew you were a comedian...lol!

Western's real budget is a lot lower than this one being reported...

21 million range according to the official docs Western releases. But I have a feeling that doesnt include soft money that is being paid out from the athletic dept back to Western for scholarships. Other words in the linked docs its probably listed as school funds but on a school budget its just two lines where the school transfers it to the AD and the AD transfers it back to the school for scholarships


When it comes to dollars spent Tech and Western is probably #1 and #2 on bang for the bucks when it comes to FB and BB. On the other end UNCC has to be last since 2014

But does it really matter if you are spending 35 to 40 or 21 million when most schools are with in a million or so in the big two sports. What it really means...

you got higher cost that does not play any role in winning or losing.

clt says Charlotte should consider an indoor tennis facility next.

Marshall, LA Tech, and USM are the only CUSA schools with less than 50% state and school subsidies. It will be interesting to see how all of the other schools will do with less subsidized money, if COVID continues to play havoc.

(07-16-2020 05:10 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:57 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  My question is... With all that extra revenue, why did Charlotte have to sand down their old basketball court and repaint it? Couldn't you afford to just buy a new court?

The trick here is to sand down past the recent years and get back to pre-2005, then seal it quickly before the mojo leaks out.

That is an excellent response. +3 for you.

(07-17-2020 08:22 AM)Herd6993 Wrote:  Marshall, LA Tech, and USM are the only CUSA schools with less than 50% state and school subsidies. It will be interesting to see how all of the other schools will do with less subsidized money, if COVID continues to play havoc.

Very true. That shows the importance of making good hiring decisions, winning and at least putting good products on the field and court. Looking at the history of ticket sales, donations, etc., there is a strong correlation between good results and good finances, as you would expect.

The P5 are self funded with 0% from subsidies

CUSA % Allocated (Subsidies, Student Fees)
Tech 43.92
USM 44.85
Marshall 47.78
.
.
.
UNT 68.95
FIU 77.15

I feel like we talk about these student athletic fees pretty often. I believe we can all agree that none of us are going to fund our $25-40 million budgets on any combination of ticket sales, TV revenue, parking & concessions, and donations. That means the balance--the biggest part--will either come from student athletic fees, or funding from the University/State. Or maybe some combination of the two.

The fees get money from the students that choose to attend the school, and the state funding comes from all residents in your state. I am not sure which is more fair, but neither is really representative of voluntarily funding sports. In NC the state does not fund athletics directly, so we are going to use the athletic fee. In other states some money does come from the State budget (perhaps funneled through the general university fund). When that is the case the student athletic fee can be smaller, but it isn't anything to crow about, because the same Dad that is paying less in fees is paying more in taxes. It is (sort of) a wash.

At Charlotte our enrollment growth rate is substantial, and our 30k student population will grow to around 40k+ in another decade or so. That tells me two things--our fees are at an acceptable level, and we are going to pass ODU with the top athletics budget one day!

(07-17-2020 01:46 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 01:01 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I feel like we talk about these student athletic fees pretty often. I believe we can all agree that none of us are going to fund our $25-40 million budgets on any combination of ticket sales, TV revenue, parking & concessions, and donations. That means the balance--the biggest part--will either come from student athletic fees, or funding from the University/State. Or maybe some combination of the two.

The fees get money from the students that choose to attend the school, and the state funding comes from all residents in your state. I am not sure which is more fair, but neither is really representative of voluntarily funding sports. In NC the state does not fund athletics directly, so we are going to use the athletic fee. In other states some money does come from the State budget (perhaps funneled through the general university fund). When that is the case the student athletic fee can be smaller, but it isn't anything to crow about, because the same Dad that is paying less in fees is paying more in taxes. It is (sort of) a wash.

At Charlotte our enrollment growth rate is substantial, and our 30k student population will grow to around 40k+ in another decade or so. That tells me two things--our fees are at an acceptable level, and we are going to pass ODU with the top athletics budget one day!

I can see that happening. ODU is short on land for expansion and hasn't grown vertically to preserve what we did have. Im actually OK with capping enrollment though. 24,000 is a fine student body, so Id work on trying to bring in higher caliber students, and improving selectivity, professor quality and campus experience for those who get in. That should translate into better giving numbers down the road to offset what we would have received in fees (I hope).

(07-17-2020 01:49 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 01:46 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 01:01 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I feel like we talk about these student athletic fees pretty often. I believe we can all agree that none of us are going to fund our $25-40 million budgets on any combination of ticket sales, TV revenue, parking & concessions, and donations. That means the balance--the biggest part--will either come from student athletic fees, or funding from the University/State. Or maybe some combination of the two.

The fees get money from the students that choose to attend the school, and the state funding comes from all residents in your state. I am not sure which is more fair, but neither is really representative of voluntarily funding sports. In NC the state does not fund athletics directly, so we are going to use the athletic fee. In other states some money does come from the State budget (perhaps funneled through the general university fund). When that is the case the student athletic fee can be smaller, but it isn't anything to crow about, because the same Dad that is paying less in fees is paying more in taxes. It is (sort of) a wash.

At Charlotte our enrollment growth rate is substantial, and our 30k student population will grow to around 40k+ in another decade or so. That tells me two things--our fees are at an acceptable level, and we are going to pass ODU with the top athletics budget one day!

I can see that happening. ODU is short on land for expansion and hasn't grown vertically to preserve what we did have. Im actually OK with capping enrollment though. 24,000 is a fine student body, so Id work on trying to bring in higher caliber students, and improving selectivity, professor quality and campus experience for those who get in. That should translate into better giving numbers down the road to offset what we would have received in fees (I hope).

clt says it is a delicate balance odu pal. Charlotte is threading the needle right now by growing and improving selectivity.