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St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
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Todor Offline
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Post: #41
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-15-2020 07:19 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 06:06 PM)Todor Wrote:  Pioneer is good for St Thomas now but I wouldn't be surprised to see them move to scholarship football when a spot opens up somewhere convenient.

Might eventually happen, but it's going to be awhile. They have to spend A LOT of money over the next several years before they can think about scholarship football. They probably have to double or triple the number of athletic office employees to deal with compliance and the host of all the other things DI brings. They'll need to add assistant coaches and pump up salaries. Travel budgets are going to balloon. So might recruiting budgets. There are the other scholarships, of course. And then there are the tens of millions that they need to dump into facilities. Finally, it's likely that hockey will be a priority, and that's very expensive on its own.

Once most of that list is dealt with, then they might consider scholarship football. I'm not saying they can't do it eventually, but I doubt it will be in this decade.

You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 03:19 AM by Todor.)
07-16-2020 03:15 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #42
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.
07-16-2020 06:28 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #43
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 06:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.

So ORU left the Southland because they would have been playing fewer Texas schools than they'd like, and went back to the Summit, which has worse travel and no Texas schools?
07-16-2020 07:03 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #44
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon.

Source?

Quote:ORU may beat them on timing.

Fennelant radishes posterialize greeenly.
07-16-2020 07:13 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #45
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon.

Source?

Quote:ORU may beat them on timing.

Fennelant radishes posterialize greeenly.

NoDak's source is that he wants WIU (and ORU) to leave the Summit. He had actually been doing pretty well in this thread on holding back the crazy.

And incidentally, Bruce, picking up a now excess EIU would work out well for MAC soccer.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 07:22 AM by Nerdlinger.)
07-16-2020 07:16 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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Post: #46
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 07:03 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 06:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.

So ORU left the Southland because they would have been playing fewer Texas schools than they'd like, and went back to the Summit, which has worse travel and no Texas schools?

04-cheers

I was just about to say the same thing.
07-16-2020 07:19 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #47
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 07:19 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 07:03 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 06:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.

So ORU left the Southland because they would have been playing fewer Texas schools than they'd like, and went back to the Summit, which has worse travel and no Texas schools?

04-cheers

I was just about to say the same thing.

Would this be the time that TAMU-International moves up to provide another soccer school?
07-16-2020 09:07 AM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #48
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?
You'd be dumb to shed any affiliate member when your membership count is near the minimum, especially when we haven't seen the full impact of COVID. If I'm running a low major conference, there isn't an affiliation call I won't answer.
07-16-2020 09:13 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?
07-16-2020 09:30 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #50
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-15-2020 08:52 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 08:28 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 07:45 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'm happy for Sr. Thomas, happy for Minnesota, who finally has their second D1 schools, and happy for the Summit League.

That league finally has some geographic identity after so many years of gaining and losing members, spreading out from southern Utah to Louisiana to upstate New York at various times. It makes some sense now.

[Image: 4YYkdtx.png]

It's pretty much linear, north to south, from Grand Forks, North Dakota down to Tulsa, Oklahoma, with a pair of schools a bit off to the east in Illinois and Minnesota, plus a western outlier in Denver.

Now all they need is a team in Wisconsin to surround Iowa completely.

Putting the pressure on Upper Iowa to at long last move up. Brilliant!

The WCHA ready. has N Michigan, who doesn't have a choice in conferences. It has to all
apply as there is no other choice if it was wants a women's team.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 11:19 AM by NoDak.)
07-16-2020 10:35 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #51
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports...Division-I
So apparent that UST wants the holdout and upgrade from the CCHA. That arena hosts the HS-affilliate St Paul Academy, which is good but labors under the 1A brand. A larger arena has been UST's target according to a DIII board.

A garbage post by Nerdlinger is anticipated here because johnbragg is a superhero for Nerdlinger.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 07:26 PM by NoDak.)
07-16-2020 11:08 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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Post: #52
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 06:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.

Not a bad idea. Questions about whether there could be a new conference that gets immediate NCAA automatic bids to sports would have to answered, as has been discussed at length with all the C-USA/Sun Belt breakaway ideas.

I do wonder about UTA and whether they would want to join such a new conference. They left the SLC avout a decade ago for a WAC that was losing members rapidly, which shows how badly they wanted out of the SLC at that time. They're now in the Sun Belt, which has higher NET rankings and more revenue than the SLC. Would they want to go back to save on travel, or are they content in the SB?

As for UALR, they've been in the SB a long time, and I'm sure they like playing Arkansas State and the SB Louisiana schools. I don't know what they would want to do.
07-16-2020 11:32 AM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
A new arena has been hinted at in the local newspapers for quite some time now. So I think a smaller 3-6k arena will get built somewhere in the area. However, the Wild's practice rink would be a decent short term option. Less likely, but also a potential option is to pay for the nearby state fair coliseum to add ice making capabilities again. Seats 8k, but is a bare bones cement building. Worked great for high school hockey, but would be a morgue unless sold out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wan4_Z6PIOw

I think they will announce their admittance to the new ccha at the same time they announce construction or fundraising plans for a new arena. Either that or they will axe hockey.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 11:48 AM by nodak651.)
07-16-2020 11:47 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #54
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?
07-16-2020 12:07 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #55
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
07-16-2020 01:02 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #56
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 09:13 AM)Mav Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?
You'd be dumb to shed any affiliate member when your membership count is near the minimum, especially when we haven't seen the full impact of COVID. If I'm running a low major conference, there isn't an affiliation call I won't answer.

If Eastern Illinois's affiliation agreement is running out in 2021, 2022 or 2023, it might not be a matter of "shed", just a matter of moving to an opportunity for more bus trips to games. They joined in 2017, so if they signed a five or six year agreement, that would put it right in that frame.

It also sounds fairly likely that Bowling Green will be playing the Tommies in hockey in the not too distant future, with the CCHA Commissioner last month in a podcast interview saying
Quote:“They’ll have to weigh their options and what’s best for St. Thomas. Obviously we would love to have them be a part of our league because of their location and footprint, their academics and the potential for them to have a very strong college hockey Division I program.”
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 01:32 PM by BruceMcF.)
07-16-2020 01:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #57
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
It will be interesting to see what St Thomas emphasizes as a D1 member:

Football: not likely since they are headed to the Pioneer. I’m not sure it makes sense to keep the sport at all

Hockey: my guess is that they are headed to the CCHA but they can build some success maybe UND, Denver, and Omaha vouch for them in the NCHC (or The Summit League takes over sponsorship).

Basketball: this is where I think they could shine as a big urban Catholic school
07-16-2020 01:27 PM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It will be interesting to see what St Thomas emphasizes as a D1 member:

Football: not likely since they are headed to the Pioneer. I’m not sure it makes sense to keep the sport at all

Hockey: my guess is that they are headed to the CCHA but they can build some success maybe UND, Denver, and Omaha vouch for them in the NCHC (or The Summit League takes over sponsorship).

Basketball: this is where I think they could shine as a big urban Catholic school

That will never happen. NCHC has been profitable and the entire reason that they created the conference was so that the member institutions could control the decision making process (rather than smaller budgeted teams that would have had voting power in what was left in the WCHA).
07-16-2020 01:38 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #59
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
:ban:nJohnbragg has no clue what he is talking about but wants his say imploded on others. Lindenwod has said they want an upgraded status and has DI status for women hockey, but is too clueless to see how they relate.

JohnBragg should be removed from moderator duties as he simply is too clueless and stupid. LIndenwood has DII football.
07-16-2020 01:46 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #60
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood.

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
:ban:nJohnbragg has no clue what he is talking about but wants his say imploded on others. Lindenwod has said they want an upgraded status and has DI status for women hockey, but is too clueless to see how they relate.

JohnBragg should be removed from moderator duties as he simply is too clueless and stupid. LIndenwood has DII football.

OK, so what you wrote was I guess what you meant to say.
Nobody is getting a "Summit FB bid" because there is no Summit FB. The Summit torching the Missouri Valley Football Conference is unlikely. The logic behind "Summit FCS" used to be that the Summit was out of compliance--mens' soccer and men's baseball were going to fall below the minimums. But St Thomas solves that problem.

I'm not sure what Lindenwood would need a "women's bid" for, but if you're suggesting Lindenwood to the Summit, that isn't 100% crazy. St Louis is on the fringe of the league footprint, they're US News top 300 (not embarrassing, in other words).


On the other hand, it does stretch the new footprint a little bit--it's a long, long bus ride from the Dakotas. And Lindenwood doesn't fill an obvious need for the Summit as #11. If Sanford Health really is the Summit's dark overlord and compels them to take Augustana, Lindenwood is a decent choice for #12.

Quote:Can both get bids?
Well, no idea what you're talking about, but the magic 8 ball says "All Signs Point To No."
07-16-2020 02:42 PM
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