https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...oling.html

Reversal of the last 30 years. Trump administration recognizes reality. Most Americans do not and will not get college degrees.

Makes perfect sense; however, I am sure there will be many that disagree just because Trump.

Mike Rowe has been pushing this boulder uphill for about 15 years. Unfortunately, the gutting of Votech education from high school back the late 90's has shrouded such work as low class.

(07-14-2020 08:43 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Makes perfect sense; however, I sure there will be many that disagree just because Trump.

Nah,

I dislike Trump but this seems like an alright idea. It's clear that college isn't for everyone, especially with the cost of tuition outpacing inflation over the past few decades. It's simply unaffordable for many middle class families to send their children to universities. Trade schools and apprenticeships can provide good alternatives.

I'm not seeing any sort of attack on the culture of credentialism that caused this, but instead a big ad campaign for considering community college. The ad campaign seems lame and will resonate with absolutely no one. Does anyone really believe being stuck making $15 an hour to get shuttled around the country putting up solar panels is "the new corporate office?" That's the problem with Conservatism Inc., they think the answer to anything that's not a corporate giveaway is a better sales pitch.

Maybe her and Jared should take her own advice and go turn a wrench somewhere. It'd be the closest thing her weasel husband's ever had to an homest living.

(07-14-2020 08:57 AM)Mav Wrote:  I'm not seeing any sort of attack on the culture of credentialism that caused this, but instead a big ad campaign for considering community college. The ad campaign seems lame and will resonate with absolutely no one. Does anyone really believe being stuck making $15 an hour to get shuttled around the country putting up solar panels is "the new corporate office?" That's the problem with Conservatism Inc., they think the answer to anything that's not a corporate giveaway is a better sales pitch.

Maybe her and Jared should take her own advice and go turn a wrench somewhere. It'd be the closest thing her weasel husband's ever had to an homest living.

I think you are seeing it being pushed back by companies starting their own in house training.

(07-14-2020 08:43 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Mike Rowe has been pushing this boulder uphill for about 15 years. Unfortunately, the gutting of Votech education from high school back the late 90's has shrouded such work as low class.

^^^

every single bit of it....

The administration is correct on this issue. We need to put HS students into vocational programs and internships as soon as we know that a student either does not have the desire or aptitude for higher education. Schools should even earlier on identify students by their skill sets and design curriculums targeted toward those skills. Not everyone is math whiz and often math whizzes have no aptitude at skilled trades like carpentry and plumbing. We need to educate our kids based on the things that excite them and lead them to a career they enjoy. The one size fits all education system we now have fails a ton of kids.

(07-14-2020 09:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The administration is correct on this issue. We need to put HS students into vocational programs and internships as soon as we know that a student either does not have the desire or aptitude for higher education. Schools should even earlier on identify students by their skill sets and design curriculums targeted toward those skills. Not everyone is math whiz and often math whizzes have no aptitude at skilled trades like carpentry and plumbing. We need to educate our kids based on the things that excite them and lead them to a career they enjoy. The one size fits all education system we now have fails a ton of kids.

There was a proposal that came out of the Clinton organization that we have work-study apprenticeship programs for vocational education, with retired plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, and the like as mentors. Republicans opposed it because is was Clinton's idea and democrats opposed it because the teachers' unions didn't like it.

(07-14-2020 09:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The administration is correct on this issue. We need to put HS students into vocational programs and internships as soon as we know that a student either does not have the desire or aptitude for higher education. Schools should even earlier on identify students by their skill sets and design curriculums targeted toward those skills. Not everyone is math whiz and often math whizzes have no aptitude at skilled trades like carpentry and plumbing. We need to educate our kids based on the things that excite them and lead them to a career they enjoy. The one size fits all education system we now have fails a ton of kids.

There are a lot of kids who have no business being in college. They get debt, little of benefit to them and lose years of earning. They also get sidetracked from something more befitting their natural talents and inclinations.

And there are a lot of college programs that have next to zero value. Unless you want to be a researcher, why would anyone take "gender studies?"

This has been a problem since the 80’s. Schools trying to channel every child. Heaven forbid you be the sensible voice in the crowd that points out every child is college material.

In 1988 I was hiring machine operators to run boring and milling with machines with newly introduced PLC’s straight out of high school. By 1995 it was impossible to hire anyone because vocational education had been de-emphasized. The company closed in 1996 with most of that work going to Asia.

By the time I retired last year, we had engineering co-ops that could barely read a tape measure.

True story
I was sitting at my desk listening to the engineers in the engineering area across the room talk about cars. They asked my young manufacturing engineering co-op what size engine his car had in it. He said

“I don’t know but I will measure it at lunch.”

I looked at the Engineering Manager sitting to my left and he just shook his head. Our Engineering Manager for the Japanese team, that was seated in front of us, turned around and looked at both with a WTH look on his face.

I knew then it was time to retire. I told my replacement good luck, you’re going to need it.

To be real, there's nothing I learned in high school that I have used more than my Woodshop class. And I don't do much. I just need it to do basic home repairs, replacing siding, fences, putting up shelves, painting, etc.

(07-14-2020 09:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  To be real, there's nothing I learned in high school that I have used more than my Woodshop class. And I don't do much. I just need it to do basic home repairs, replacing siding, fences, putting up shelves, painting, etc.

The most valuable classes I took in HS were drafting and typing. Typing being easily the most valuable. I made a bunch of extra cash in college typing term papers.

(07-14-2020 08:57 AM)Mav Wrote:  I'm not seeing any sort of attack on the culture of credentialism that caused this, but instead a big ad campaign for considering community college. The ad campaign seems lame and will resonate with absolutely no one. Does anyone really believe being stuck making $15 an hour to get shuttled around the country putting up solar panels is "the new corporate office?" That's the problem with Conservatism Inc., they think the answer to anything that's not a corporate giveaway is a better sales pitch.

Maybe her and Jared should take her own advice and go turn a wrench somewhere. It'd be the closest thing her weasel husband's ever had to an homest living.

1) Why must each and every 'pitch' address every single problem? If you want to attack the culture of credentialism, go for it. There certainly are lots of people for whom that won't resonate.

2) Getting paid $15/hr and traveling the country isn't a bad thing... especially if the alternative is making $10/hr to work at the McDonalds on the corner in the same town you've spent your whole life.

3) the above ignores the reality of most people who do such jobs... They start off making $15/hr working for someone else, they take some community college courses in running a business and eventually go into business for themselves... either as a direct competitor to their former employer, or in a related area, like servicing older systems.... and now they're making 100k+/yr and employing people whom they pay $15/hr

4) $15/hr is 'more' when you didn't spend 50k+ to earn it.

5) It's funny that you mention (with disdain) Kushner... who graduated Harvard and then attended NYU graduating with a JD AND an MBA. If he didn't earn 'those', doesn't that speak to those 'highly respected' institutions as much as he?

(07-14-2020 08:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...oling.html

Reversal of the last 30 years. Trump administration recognizes reality. Most Americans do not and will not get college degrees.

I never attended college or got a degree from a college or university. None the less, I ended up working first in electronics, then in Engineering for the Federal Government. I got my training via the Apprenticeship Programs offered at Norfolk Naval Shipyard. For the last 15 years of my career I was a Group Leader in the Engineering Department and always had anywhere from 4 to 12 people working under me with nearly all of them being Engineers with a BS in Electrical Engineering. I made six figures in my latter years. Bottom line is that making a decent living can be done without obtaining a college degree.

(07-14-2020 12:29 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(07-14-2020 08:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...oling.html

Reversal of the last 30 years. Trump administration recognizes reality. Most Americans do not and will not get college degrees.

I never attended college or got a degree from a college or university. None the less, I ended up working first in electronics, then in Engineering for the Federal Government. I got my training via the Apprenticeship Programs offered at Norfolk Naval Shipyard. For the last 15 years of my career I was a Group Leader in the Engineering Department and always had anywhere from 4 to 12 people working under me with nearly all of them being Engineers with a BS in Electrical Engineering. I made six figures in my latter years. Bottom line is that making a decent living can be done without obtaining a college degree.

The thing is that you were willing to grind it out to get to six figures. A lot of college grads with little critical thinking skills believe they should have a corner office or they are being slighted.

My oldest had a full scholarship starting last fall. Great student, made a 30 on her ACT.

She knew after the first week she was done after one semester. Walked into English class and the first thing the "professor" had eveyone do was stand up and declare their pronouns. And yes, quotes around professor because the first exercise had absolutely nothing to do with college English.

She is busting her butt to eventually open her own business.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

(07-14-2020 09:54 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  This has been a problem since the 80’s. Schools trying to channel every child. Heaven forbid you be the sensible voice in the crowd that points out every child is college material.

In 1988 I was hiring machine operators to run boring and milling with machines with newly introduced PLC’s straight out of high school. By 1995 it was impossible to hire anyone because vocational education had been de-emphasized. The company closed in 1996 with most of that work going to Asia.

By the time I retired last year, we had engineering co-ops that could barely read a tape measure.

True story
I was sitting at my desk listening to the engineers in the engineering area across the room talk about cars. They asked my young manufacturing engineering co-op what size engine his car had in it. He said

“I don’t know but I will measure it at lunch.”

I looked at the Engineering Manager sitting to my left and he just shook his head. Our Engineering Manager for the Japanese team, that was seated in front of us, turned around and looked at both with a WTH look on his face.

I knew then it was time to retire. I told my replacement good luck, you’re going to need it.

I used my GI Bill after I retired in 2016 and went to a Post Secondary Trade College. There were tons of products of the education system that didn't know how to read a tape measure. The whole 1/4 = 2/8 = 4/16, etc...blew their mind. Ofcourse, most of them just played music into their headphones and texted all day in class. They didn't care they were on a Pell Grant, etc...

(07-14-2020 12:40 PM)maximus Wrote:  My oldest had a full scholarship starting last fall. Great student, made a 30 on her ACT.

She knew after the first week she was done after one semester. Walked into English class and the first thing the "professor" had eveyone do was stand up and declare their pronouns. And yes, quotes around professor because the first exercise had absolutely nothing to do with college English.

She is busting her butt to eventually open her own business.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Had a TA in my first English class who downgraded a paper on abortion because I "should have used a more widely accepted source" than the Bible.

I doubt she taught again. We nailed her on the valuations. She was bad all around.

(07-14-2020 12:42 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-14-2020 09:54 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  This has been a problem since the 80’s. Schools trying to channel every child. Heaven forbid you be the sensible voice in the crowd that points out every child is college material.

In 1988 I was hiring machine operators to run boring and milling with machines with newly introduced PLC’s straight out of high school. By 1995 it was impossible to hire anyone because vocational education had been de-emphasized. The company closed in 1996 with most of that work going to Asia.

By the time I retired last year, we had engineering co-ops that could barely read a tape measure.

True story
I was sitting at my desk listening to the engineers in the engineering area across the room talk about cars. They asked my young manufacturing engineering co-op what size engine his car had in it. He said

“I don’t know but I will measure it at lunch.”

I looked at the Engineering Manager sitting to my left and he just shook his head. Our Engineering Manager for the Japanese team, that was seated in front of us, turned around and looked at both with a WTH look on his face.

I knew then it was time to retire. I told my replacement good luck, you’re going to need it.

I used my GI Bill after I retired in 2016 and went to a Post Secondary Trade College. There were tons of products of the education system that didn't know how to read a tape measure. The whole 1/4 = 2/8 = 4/16, etc...blew their mind. Ofcourse, most of them just played music into their headphones and texted all day in class. They didn't care they were on a Pell Grant, etc...

Mark its sad. Lana had to show her daughter’s fiancé how to check the oil in his truck after I refused to do it. The guy is a moron. To his credit he does work. The rest of the time he plays video games.

Personally I don’t know what the girl sees in him but it is what it is.