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(07-27-2020 08:33 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I think many of us on this board know doctors who work with COVID patients fairly regularly at this point. All of them that I know say this is serious, and one of the biggest ramifications of catching it is the long term effects. We don't know what those will be, but they don't look promising in many people at this point. Staying home for the rest of our lives is obviously not an option, and none of the people I am friends with and trust have ever suggested that. But they have suggested wearing masks in public and not putting myself in harm's way.

If COVID hits an entire FBS roster at once, nobody is expecting 80 players to die. But if all 130ish teams have this breakout, that would be over 1000 otherwise healthy young men, and it's not unreasonable to say there would likely be multiple deaths at that point. The question to me becomes, is it worth it to suffer a few deaths of players and coaches to play college football this fall? If your answer to this is yes, then we can just stop the conversation there.

The major league players are getting paid and have endless funds to protect them, and we are still seeing breakouts in baseball after 4 days of games or so. The NBA bubble appears to be the best setup of the bunch, and I think that may work simply because of how things are being run and the short time frame it will take place in. But, these guys are all being paid and have agreed to take the risk for their paychecks. College athletes are not officially being paid, and they should not be put into dangerous conditions because we love our college football. This will eventually die down, and we will develop a vaccine, or herd immunity will eventually take place. I want UAB to play football as much as anybody does this fall, but I will not put my morals to the side to have this take place. If we play football, I think it's a very bad idea.

I agree. Frenchie is probably the only other physician I know who is so laissez faire about all of this. He makes a ton of ASSumptions that are pretty crazy. I'm sure he is a good physician in his own field and area of expertise, but I would not listen to anything he has to say regarding infectious diseases, epidemiology, or the spread of COVID-19. I think he gets a ton of leeway here just because he is a big supporter of UAB athletics. That's not a prerequisite for being an expert on what's going on currently in the country by any stretch..

I would be shocked if there weren't any deaths among players, coaches, or other ancillary staff as a result of COVID-19 if we go on with college football without any kind of bubble set up/major testing changes/etc. I really can't see the requisite safety measures being enacted in a sport that is so widespread and involves thousands of young college students without any kind of mandatory testing scheme, isolation/bubble set up, etc. It's a recipe for disaster. Professional players make an informed decision based on getting their paychecks and continuing their livelihoods, but it's just not the same in college sports.

(07-27-2020 01:43 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(07-26-2020 08:18 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  ask people which color is the sun ,,,5 % will be wONT said yellow ...simple statistic

The sun is white. It appears yellow from Earth because some colors are scattered by the atmosphere.

And that's why you don't take scientific "facts" from an amateur using that there common sense.

So with all due respect, I'll ask astronomers about the color of the sun, and epidemiologists about the spread of Covid-19.

(07-27-2020 01:43 AM)58-56 Wrote:  The sun is white. It appears yellow from Earth because some colors are scattered by the atmosphere.

And that's why you don't take scientific "facts" from an amateur using that there common sense.

So with all due respect, I'll ask astronomers about the color of the sun, and epidemiologists about the spread of Covid-19.

(07-27-2020 07:22 AM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  You got me there ,,but my question which color did you see the sun,,,:)

This is kind of the point. What you "see" without the expert knowledge to actually understand what is happening is the issue

Anyway, I'll just leave this here:



The MLB season, which is like 4 days old, is already falling apart because basically the entire Marlins team tested positive. MLB has tens of millions of dollars, a relatively small group of players compared to football, and a very high motivation among both teams and players to keep isolated, and the players don't have to go to class with the general population

I'd say see you guys in 2021, but Google has announced they're going to extend work from home until Summer 2021, so who knows if we'll be back to normal even then

(07-26-2020 02:58 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  after everyone is positive on the team ,,,,they will all become immune to it
it is one way to do it

They don’t know that yet.

(07-27-2020 12:35 PM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  

(07-26-2020 02:58 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  after everyone is positive on the team ,,,,they will all become immune to it
it is one way to do it

They don’t know that yet.

and it is not yet known what level of immunity having the infection provides. there are patients who are being re-infected.

(07-27-2020 10:30 AM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  

(07-27-2020 08:33 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I think many of us on this board know doctors who work with COVID patients fairly regularly at this point. All of them that I know say this is serious, and one of the biggest ramifications of catching it is the long term effects. We don't know what those will be, but they don't look promising in many people at this point. Staying home for the rest of our lives is obviously not an option, and none of the people I am friends with and trust have ever suggested that. But they have suggested wearing masks in public and not putting myself in harm's way.

If COVID hits an entire FBS roster at once, nobody is expecting 80 players to die. But if all 130ish teams have this breakout, that would be over 1000 otherwise healthy young men, and it's not unreasonable to say there would likely be multiple deaths at that point. The question to me becomes, is it worth it to suffer a few deaths of players and coaches to play college football this fall? If your answer to this is yes, then we can just stop the conversation there.

The major league players are getting paid and have endless funds to protect them, and we are still seeing breakouts in baseball after 4 days of games or so. The NBA bubble appears to be the best setup of the bunch, and I think that may work simply because of how things are being run and the short time frame it will take place in. But, these guys are all being paid and have agreed to take the risk for their paychecks. College athletes are not officially being paid, and they should not be put into dangerous conditions because we love our college football. This will eventually die down, and we will develop a vaccine, or herd immunity will eventually take place. I want UAB to play football as much as anybody does this fall, but I will not put my morals to the side to have this take place. If we play football, I think it's a very bad idea.

I agree. Frenchie is probably the only other physician I know who is so laissez faire about all of this. He makes a ton of ASSumptions that are pretty crazy. I'm sure he is a good physician in his own field and area of expertise, but I would not listen to anything he has to say regarding infectious diseases, epidemiology, or the spread of COVID-19. I think he gets a ton of leeway here just because he is a big supporter of UAB athletics. That's not a prerequisite for being an expert on what's going on currently in the country by any stretch..

I would be shocked if there weren't any deaths among players, coaches, or other ancillary staff as a result of COVID-19 if we go on with college football without any kind of bubble set up/major testing changes/etc. I really can't see the requisite safety measures being enacted in a sport that is so widespread and involves thousands of young college students without any kind of mandatory testing scheme, isolation/bubble set up, etc. It's a recipe for disaster. Professional players make an informed decision based on getting their paychecks and continuing their livelihoods, but it's just not the same in college sports.

I know hundreds of them.
Almost none will say so in public
(Hundreds May be an exaggeration)

Frenchie is probably the only other physician I know who is so laissez faire about all of this.



I know hundreds of them.
Almost none will say so in public
(Hundreds May be an exaggeration)
[/quote]

Here's the deal. We as physicians know this is a bad virus. It's part of the spectrum of contagious diseases we see every day. We're not "laissez faire". But we're not paralyzed with fear. Luc is in a position that is very high risk in anesthesiology and I'm at moderate risk because I do radiology procedures on inpatients. I work under the assumption that everyone is positive until proven otherwise.

The data is incontrovertible. Healthy young athletes are at minimal risk of serious complications. Minimal. I would also argue that athletes in the controlled environment of of the UAB athletic department are actually SAFER than the general student population because of the level of testing they receive and their movements are more monitored. My guess is they'll mostly be taking classes on line as well to even reduce the risk during the season.

And before someone starts in on "we don't know the long term effects" discussion I invite you to peruse the data from the UNC center on catastrophic athletic injuries https://nccsir.unc.edu/reports/. These are real long term risks. Known. Quantifiable. Catastrophic. We as fans and as players know these risks and consider them acceptable. This doesn't include the long term effects of musculoskeletal and CNS injuries but we have made a determination as fans and players that these are also acceptable but need to be improved.

Sorry for prolonging the misery of this thread.

Lou Williams couldn’t stay out of a strip club. We expect college athletes to avoid house parties, bars, etc? It’s just not possible.

So are you saying that if football goes on and there is a large outbreak players won’t die from COVID? None?

(07-27-2020 08:45 PM)biglizard Wrote:  Here's the deal. We as physicians know this is a bad virus. It's part of the spectrum of contagious diseases we see every day. We're not "laissez faire". But we're not paralyzed with fear. Luc is in a position that is very high risk in anesthesiology and I'm at moderate risk because I do radiology procedures on inpatients. I work under the assumption that everyone is positive until proven otherwise.

The data is incontrovertible. Healthy young athletes are at minimal risk of serious complications. Minimal. I would also argue that athletes in the controlled environment of of the UAB athletic department are actually SAFER than the general student population because of the level of testing they receive and their movements are more monitored. My guess is they'll mostly be taking classes on line as well to even reduce the risk during the season.

And before someone starts in on "we don't know the long term effects" discussion I invite you to peruse the data from the UNC center on catastrophic athletic injuries https://nccsir.unc.edu/reports/. These are real long term risks. Known. Quantifiable. Catastrophic. We as fans and as players know these risks and consider them acceptable. This doesn't include the long term effects of musculoskeletal and CNS injuries but we have made a determination as fans and players that these are also acceptable but need to be improved.

Sorry for prolonging the misery of this thread.

Low risk is not zero risk. There are plenty of stories of perfectly healthy 20-somethings who have died from this virus. The actual experts, including the actual experts at UAB, say we should be taking this more seriously than we are. I trust them. Covid has now passed stroke as top 5 leading cause of death in the US for the year. That is not all attributable to everyone dying of it being diabetic

(07-27-2020 08:45 PM)biglizard Wrote:  Frenchie is probably the only other physician I know who is so laissez faire about all of this.



I know hundreds of them.
Almost none will say so in public
(Hundreds May be an exaggeration)

Here's the deal. We as physicians know this is a bad virus. It's part of the spectrum of contagious diseases we see every day. We're not "laissez faire". But we're not paralyzed with fear. Luc is in a position that is very high risk in anesthesiology and I'm at moderate risk because I do radiology procedures on inpatients. I work under the assumption that everyone is positive until proven otherwise.

The data is incontrovertible. Healthy young athletes are at minimal risk of serious complications. Minimal. I would also argue that athletes in the controlled environment of of the UAB athletic department are actually SAFER than the general student population because of the level of testing they receive and their movements are more monitored. My guess is they'll mostly be taking classes on line as well to even reduce the risk during the season.

And before someone starts in on "we don't know the long term effects" discussion I invite you to peruse the data from the UNC center on catastrophic athletic injuries https://nccsir.unc.edu/reports/. These are real long term risks. Known. Quantifiable. Catastrophic. We as fans and as players know these risks and consider them acceptable. This doesn't include the long term effects of musculoskeletal and CNS injuries but we have made a determination as fans and players that these are also acceptable but need to be improved.

Sorry for prolonging the misery of this thread.
[/quote]

No matter what you say, your opinions on this aren’t congruent with any physicians that I know... you three are definite outliers.

Are your opinions and laissez faire attitudes about exposures and loosening restrictions based on the severely reduced cases and income the initial lockdowns caused? If so, that’s certainly understandable, but obviously extremely biased.

Football related neurologic and musculoskeletal injuries are a known and intrinsic part of the game. Players go into competition knowing the risk of those type of injuries with eyes wide open. Exposure to a novel virus that could lead to long term health issues, death, or spread to other at-risk individuals is not an intrinsic part of the game.

I don’t think any of us are paralyzed with fear. Some of us are just more cautious than others and realize that attempting college football is not feasible nor safe. I understand that we will probably attempt a season in some modified way, but I think there is a near zero chance the season plays out to full completion.

One of my sons started feeling poorly last week, got tested on Friday. Waiting on results. I started running a fever yesterday, getting tested today.

Good times.

No matter what you say, your opinions on this aren’t congruent with any physicians that I know... you three are definite outliers.

I would suggest you expand your circle.

Are your opinions and laissez faire attitudes about exposures and loosening restrictions based on the severely reduced cases and income the initial lockdowns caused? If so, that’s certainly understandable, but obviously extremely biased.

I'll put up with a lot. Not this. The suggestion that my medical judgement is based on my income is a bridge too far. I'd be happy to correct you in person. And these aren't "attitudes'. I've been in medicine in one form or another (including immunology research) for 35 years. I trained during the initial AIDS epidemic in the mid 80's when we didn't know how it was transmitted but we knew it was a universal death sentence. This doesn't rise to that level, it's not even in the same time zone. My opinion is also based on things like, you know, data.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid...L1c5aMRbIw



Football related neurologic and musculoskeletal injuries are a known and intrinsic part of the game. Players go into competition knowing the risk of those type of injuries with eyes wide open. Exposure to a novel virus that could lead to long term health issues, death, or spread to other at-risk individuals is not an intrinsic part of the game.

I don’t think any of us are paralyzed with fear. Some of us are just more cautious than others and realize that attempting college football is not feasible nor safe. I understand that we will probably attempt a season in some modified way, but I think there is a near zero chance the season plays out to full completion.
[/quote]

I again assert that these students are safer in the AD environment than being in the general student population. The season may not happen at all, it may happen in full or somewhere in between. But let's not pretend that shortening or cancelling the season is somehow tied to athlete safety. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

Mods feel free to delete my post. Feel free to ban me. Feel free to hang me in effigy. I just don't care anymore

[/quote]
No matter what you say, your opinions on this aren’t congruent with any physicians that I know... you three are definite outliers. [/quote]

you actually don't know my opinion.
i think the argument is stupid, because nobody here is going to change anybody's mind, so i keep it to myself.

i one time made a comment about the evidence put forth by the scientific community at the time...you accused me of being a right wing nut job and asked for my sources, so i provided the ones put out by my hospitals ID dept earlier that week.

i also said i know a lot of physicians that agree with Frenchie

to my knowledge, those are the only 2 statements ive made about it, neither of which expresses my opinion

im embarrased that ive contributed this much to this trainwreck of a thread

for the fun look at the statistic in quebec ,,where everyone have access to health care (white black asian etc) ..data are incredible because everyone have a card ,,and the healthcare know what did you fhave or treatment or rx test and death etc
look at percentage of death

i KNOW for a fact because my sister leave there and I skype her EVERY weeks ,.,.,.'

movement was restricted
no one was able to go in certain hot area of the province (example in Montreal ,,,people had to stay home as much as possible
quarantine 14 days if you came from china or the usa etc

look at percentage of death

https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-i...in-quebec/

Distribution of deaths by age group
Age group % of deaths
Under 20 years 0.0
20-29 years 0.1
30-39 years 0.1
40-49 years 0.4
50-59 years 1.8
60-69 years 6.0
70-79 years 18.0
80-89 years 40.1
90 years or more 33.6
Age to be determined 0
Cumulative data. Source: Trajectoire de santé publique (TSP), MSSS, July 27, 2020, 4 p.m.

none of those death played college football ,,,I am pretty sure
dont get mad ,,,it just statistic ,,that mean something

That is protection

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Ohio St announced it's "probable" they would operate their stadium at 20% capacity, ban tailgating, and require masks if there's a season.

(07-29-2020 09:45 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  Ohio St announced it's "probable" they would operate their stadium at 20% capacity, ban tailgating, and require masks if there's a season.

they do it in europe ,,,,except zero people in the stand except players , trainers , referee

I believe that data is fairly accurate, and I’d imagine the numbers in America are fairly similar based off of everything I’ve seen or read.

As a doctor, I’m sure you are aware African American men are at risk for certain defects in general, and COVID can be a major problem for these underlying health issues. Also 0.1% or 1000ish D1 players is equal to what? Plus, we need to look at the coaching staff and the risk groups they are in. COVID wouldn’t wipe out an entire football team, nobody has ever suggested that. But losing a player or two to a death so we can have our football just doesn’t seem worth it to me.

the football player part was a joke .....AA in usa are in general is worse shape ,,,for xyz reasons and it is sad ...
.quebec doesnt t have AA because we dont use the word related to a continent ,"),,but the majority of black people in quebec are from HAITI , and African country who speak french (and many African country speak french)