most of the this impact is pre Covid.....so it's going to get much worse for FSU.

Sadly, the revenue gap is going to bring change. MASSIVE change. Don't know what it is...but I don't think FSU fans will like it. They have been in denial for years....and here we are.

Once the post Covid impact is felt......FSU gonna be a shadow of itself. Schools with massive athletic endowments (UNC) will be better off.


https://theosceola.com/fsu-to-slash-athl...0-percent/

Florida State has cut 25 full-time positions from athletics and the boosters and must slash 20 percent from the 2020-21 budget, athletics director David Coburn said in a statement on Friday.
FSU’s athletics budget in recent years has been between $105 million-$110 million, which means more than $21 million must be stripped away through salary cuts, travel expenses and other means. Head coaches have taken “significant salary reductions.”

Everyone will make the necessary adjustments. Stanford took advantage of the economic circumstances associated with CV-19 pandemic. It isn't like their athletic endowment isn't huge. I suspect carrying 30+ sports was something the administration at Stanford wanted to change for a while. The cover of CV-19 gave them that opportunity.

(07-12-2020 12:13 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  Everyone will make the necessary adjustments. Stanford took advantage of the economic circumstances associated with CV-19 pandemic. It isn't like their athletic endowment isn't huge. I suspect carrying 30+ sports was something the administration at Stanford wanted to change for a while. The cover of CV-19 gave them that opportunity.

As I stated. This was PRE Covid budget issues (2018-2019). This is FSU's 3rd or 4th year in a row of budget cuts.

The next 3 years of budget cuts when COVID hits FSU"s budget are going to shock FSU fans......shock them greatly.

(07-12-2020 01:43 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 12:13 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  Everyone will make the necessary adjustments. Stanford took advantage of the economic circumstances associated with CV-19 pandemic. It isn't like their athletic endowment isn't huge. I suspect carrying 30+ sports was something the administration at Stanford wanted to change for a while. The cover of CV-19 gave them that opportunity.

As I stated. This was PRE Covid budget issues (2018-2019). This is FSU's 3rd or 4th year in a row of budget cuts.

The next 3 years of budget cuts when COVID hits FSU"s budget are going to shock FSU fans......shock them greatly.

Maybe they should try and protect football and basketball and cancel the rest of the sports. Stanford is loaded with money so I guess they wanted to cancel those other sports.

It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

And yet their Gross Total Revenue last year was either 2nd or 3rd and a shade under 200 million. That was an atypical year for them as usually their GTR runs around 127 to 140 million range depending upon performance. That's why their shortfall for the same period of time seems so bizarre.

(07-12-2020 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

And yet their Gross Total Revenue last year was either 2nd or 3rd and a shade under 200 million. That was an atypical year for them as usually their GTR runs around 127 to 140 million range depending upon performance. That's why their shortfall for the same period of time seems so bizarre.

They are doing something with capital money that is causing it to appear on the books as an annual revenue. It's not modified accrual. https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...929215001/

As near as I can tell they are running a combined campaign to raise $100 million but the funds are being spent on current operations and capital projects. I've never seen it done this way, but NC based accounting is the most conservative in the US.

For instance, UNC borrowed a ton of money from BB&T to fix a bunch of infrastructure and to replace a storm drainage feature covered over by a couple of dorms, the bell tower, and part of Kenan and the women's FH field. This was short term borrowing that they hoped to have the State of NC pick up in a tax exempt bond so that they could roll that over into long term debt. It never hit the books as annual "revenue" and the expenses hit the books as long term debt service.

(As near as I could tell the Ram's Club gave BB&T a worthless promise to pay as they Ram's Club owns no land on Campus - see it's good to graduate your future bankers)

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

i remember reading an article years ago about how the sports folks calculate how big an arena/stadium to build based on what they could charge customers and still fill the arena. The article used the United Center in Chicago which holds 23,500 people but for different markets higher revenue was generated by having fewer seats but charging people more money per ticket. Perhaps, FSU might need to think about raising ticket prices. I see how they got into the problem, because FSU was so successful over the years in football so they had inflated revenues so they expanded their budgets and sports. Now that FSU is a middle to lower range team, they really need to cut back their sports and their budgets and perhaps raise prices on tickets.

(07-12-2020 09:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

And yet their Gross Total Revenue last year was either 2nd or 3rd and a shade under 200 million. That was an atypical year for them as usually their GTR runs around 127 to 140 million range depending upon performance. That's why their shortfall for the same period of time seems so bizarre.

They are doing something with capital money that is causing it to appear on the books as an annual revenue. It's not modified accrual. https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...929215001/

As near as I can tell they are running a combined campaign to raise $100 million but the funds are being spent on current operations and capital projects. I've never seen it done this way, but NC based accounting is the most conservative in the US.

For instance, UNC borrowed a ton of money from BB&T to fix a bunch of infrastructure and to replace a storm drainage feature covered over by a couple of dorms, the bell tower, and part of Kenan and the women's FH field. This was short term borrowing that they hoped to have the State of NC pick up in a tax exempt bond so that they could roll that over into long term debt. It never hit the books as annual "revenue" and the expenses hit the books as long term debt service.

(As near as I could tell the Ram's Club gave BB&T a worthless promise to pay as they Ram's Club owns no land on Campus - see it's good to graduate your future bankers)

Hmm, this reminds me of a company that I used to work for that had two sets of books, One was the "official books" and one was the "real books" for themselves. Seems a little strange to be doing this type of accounting. I wonder whether they are hiding something, not saying that they are or they aren't but usually when you have a couple sets of books there is usually something to hide.

(07-12-2020 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

And yet their Gross Total Revenue last year was either 2nd or 3rd and a shade under 200 million. That was an atypical year for them as usually their GTR runs around 127 to 140 million range depending upon performance. That's why their shortfall for the same period of time seems so bizarre.

A couple of years ago, Florida State was having regular fund raising events to generate enough cash to make the payments on their baseball stadium renovations.

(07-12-2020 09:52 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-12-2020 08:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  It can't be helping that football attendance has fallen by 34% over the last five years. That has to be close to $15 million a year in lost revenue.

Last year they were down to an average of 55K in a stadium that seats 81K. FSU's stadium is built with a lot of "freeboard" meaning that their own fan base and no travelers can only fill about 85% of the stadium which means a full stadium would seat only 69K. By comparison NC State has no freeboard so 58K will watch ND or a FCS dog.
There's two ways to gin up that extra 11,000 for FSU - they have to be in the top 15 or so, or the opponent has to be a top 5 or so high profile opponent. They only had 68K when Clemson came to town in 2018.

i remember reading an article years ago about how the sports folks calculate how big an arena/stadium to build based on what they could charge customers and still fill the arena. The article used the United Center in Chicago which holds 23,500 people but for different markets higher revenue was generated by having fewer seats but charging people more money per ticket. Perhaps, FSU might need to think about raising ticket prices. I see how they got into the problem, because FSU was so successful over the years in football so they had inflated revenues so they expanded their budgets and sports. Now that FSU is a middle to lower range team, they really need to cut back their sports and their budgets and perhaps raise prices on tickets.

FSU is literally in the middle of nowhere. The fans they draw either come from the panhandle or drive up from the big Metros (2.5 to 7 hrs) . I'm amazed they used to draw 80K. Having a large student fanbase helps. Realistically their stadium should be right sized to 60-65K. I just see most stadiums becoming emptier. If you reduce capacity and employ dynamic pricing you can charge more as winning dictates. Obviously they won't do anything soon but I don't see this trend changing of more fans opting to watch the game remotely at the time and location of their choosing.

(07-11-2020 07:44 AM)nole Wrote:  most of the this impact is pre Covid.....so it's going to get much worse for FSU.

Sadly, the revenue gap is going to bring change. MASSIVE change. Don't know what it is...but I don't think FSU fans will like it. They have been in denial for years....and here we are.

Once the post Covid impact is felt......FSU gonna be a shadow of itself. Schools with massive athletic endowments (UNC) will be better off.


https://theosceola.com/fsu-to-slash-athl...0-percent/

Florida State has cut 25 full-time positions from athletics and the boosters and must slash 20 percent from the 2020-21 budget, athletics director David Coburn said in a statement on Friday.
FSU’s athletics budget in recent years has been between $105 million-$110 million, which means more than $21 million must be stripped away through salary cuts, travel expenses and other means. Head coaches have taken “significant salary reductions.”

Nole,

Although I agree with your concerns about the revenue gap. Thats something to worry about when it actually starts to hinder FSU's competitiveness. FSU, by generating more revenues than anyone else in the ACC, and last year being top 5 in revenues in the entire country, it seems that the revenue shortfalls currently at FSU are self inflicted with a 34% decline in attendance. The attendance issues may take care of themselves once FSU starts winning big again. But that seems to be more of FSU's problem than anything else right now.

(07-13-2020 11:02 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 07:44 AM)nole Wrote:  most of the this impact is pre Covid.....so it's going to get much worse for FSU.

Sadly, the revenue gap is going to bring change. MASSIVE change. Don't know what it is...but I don't think FSU fans will like it. They have been in denial for years....and here we are.

Once the post Covid impact is felt......FSU gonna be a shadow of itself. Schools with massive athletic endowments (UNC) will be better off.


https://theosceola.com/fsu-to-slash-athl...0-percent/

Florida State has cut 25 full-time positions from athletics and the boosters and must slash 20 percent from the 2020-21 budget, athletics director David Coburn said in a statement on Friday.
FSU’s athletics budget in recent years has been between $105 million-$110 million, which means more than $21 million must be stripped away through salary cuts, travel expenses and other means. Head coaches have taken “significant salary reductions.”

Nole,

Although I agree with your concerns about the revenue gap. Thats something to worry about when it actually starts to hinder FSU's competitiveness. FSU, by generating more revenues than anyone else in the ACC, and last year being top 5 in revenues in the entire country, it seems that the revenue shortfalls currently at FSU are self inflicted with a 34% decline in attendance. The attendance issues may take care of themselves once FSU starts winning big again. But that seems to be more of FSU's problem than anything else right now.

Perhaps.

There is really one one school that is anywhere close to playoff competitive in the ACC and that is Clemson. For that reason, many dismiss $16 million revenue gaps as a problem.

Maybe they are right.

But when a lobster is being boiled slowly it takes a long time for folks to realize it. I hope 5-10 years now, the ACC isn't bright red and wondering what happened. My guess is the ACC is sitting in a pot now not really noticing it's being boiled

(07-13-2020 02:06 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-13-2020 11:02 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 07:44 AM)nole Wrote:  most of the this impact is pre Covid.....so it's going to get much worse for FSU.

Sadly, the revenue gap is going to bring change. MASSIVE change. Don't know what it is...but I don't think FSU fans will like it. They have been in denial for years....and here we are.

Once the post Covid impact is felt......FSU gonna be a shadow of itself. Schools with massive athletic endowments (UNC) will be better off.


https://theosceola.com/fsu-to-slash-athl...0-percent/

Florida State has cut 25 full-time positions from athletics and the boosters and must slash 20 percent from the 2020-21 budget, athletics director David Coburn said in a statement on Friday.
FSU’s athletics budget in recent years has been between $105 million-$110 million, which means more than $21 million must be stripped away through salary cuts, travel expenses and other means. Head coaches have taken “significant salary reductions.”

Nole,

Although I agree with your concerns about the revenue gap. Thats something to worry about when it actually starts to hinder FSU's competitiveness. FSU, by generating more revenues than anyone else in the ACC, and last year being top 5 in revenues in the entire country, it seems that the revenue shortfalls currently at FSU are self inflicted with a 34% decline in attendance. The attendance issues may take care of themselves once FSU starts winning big again. But that seems to be more of FSU's problem than anything else right now.

Perhaps.

There is really one one school that is anywhere close to playoff competitive in the ACC and that is Clemson. For that reason, many dismiss $16 million revenue gaps as a problem.

Maybe they are right.

But when a lobster is being boiled slowly it takes a long time for folks to realize it. I hope 5-10 years now, the ACC isn't bright red and wondering what happened. My guess is the ACC is sitting in a pot now not really noticing it's being boiled

I think we should grant the 'noles their freedom or at least trade them.
Florida State for Tennessee might work out for both conferences a little better than the current circumstance. And while we are at it, we might as well swap Miami for Kentucky so that all of Florida can belong to the SEC.

(07-13-2020 02:36 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-13-2020 02:06 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-13-2020 11:02 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 07:44 AM)nole Wrote:  most of the this impact is pre Covid.....so it's going to get much worse for FSU.

Sadly, the revenue gap is going to bring change. MASSIVE change. Don't know what it is...but I don't think FSU fans will like it. They have been in denial for years....and here we are.

Once the post Covid impact is felt......FSU gonna be a shadow of itself. Schools with massive athletic endowments (UNC) will be better off.


https://theosceola.com/fsu-to-slash-athl...0-percent/

Florida State has cut 25 full-time positions from athletics and the boosters and must slash 20 percent from the 2020-21 budget, athletics director David Coburn said in a statement on Friday.
FSU’s athletics budget in recent years has been between $105 million-$110 million, which means more than $21 million must be stripped away through salary cuts, travel expenses and other means. Head coaches have taken “significant salary reductions.”

Nole,

Although I agree with your concerns about the revenue gap. Thats something to worry about when it actually starts to hinder FSU's competitiveness. FSU, by generating more revenues than anyone else in the ACC, and last year being top 5 in revenues in the entire country, it seems that the revenue shortfalls currently at FSU are self inflicted with a 34% decline in attendance. The attendance issues may take care of themselves once FSU starts winning big again. But that seems to be more of FSU's problem than anything else right now.

Perhaps.

There is really one one school that is anywhere close to playoff competitive in the ACC and that is Clemson. For that reason, many dismiss $16 million revenue gaps as a problem.

Maybe they are right.

But when a lobster is being boiled slowly it takes a long time for folks to realize it. I hope 5-10 years now, the ACC isn't bright red and wondering what happened. My guess is the ACC is sitting in a pot now not really noticing it's being boiled

I think we should grant the 'noles their freedom or at least trade them.
Florida State for Tennessee might work out for both conferences a little better than the current circumstance. And while we are at it, we might as well swap Miami for Kentucky so that all of Florida can belong to the SEC.

Better idea: let's trade UNC and Duke for Auburn and a six-pack of beer...
and if they want UVA as well, toss in Tennessee and they can keep the beer.

There are going to be a BUNCH of schools in similar situations in the P5.

Honestly, bringing some financial sanity back to college athletics could be one silver lining of this pandemic.

(07-13-2020 04:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  There are going to be a BUNCH of schools in similar situations in the P5.

Honestly, bringing some financial sanity back to college athletics could be one silver lining of this pandemic.

All of our schools should be permitted to set aside 2 years worth of operating expenses for catastrophes, war, and pandemics, or any other unforeseen circumstance and be able to do so without the Feds claiming it is profit.

Right now they all tend to spend whatever they take in so as not to be considered a for profit.

Personally I'd like to see a flat 10% annually placed back into academics and another 10% in the set aside until it builds to 2 years of operational expense. Let all of them operate on 80% of their revenue and they should be able to do it.

We are only facing a financial crisis because unimaginative leadership and government entities just stupidly considered nothing would ever shut down the games. The time to get this done is now while everyone sees the importance of it and nobody can make an excuse not to.

(07-13-2020 04:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  There are going to be a BUNCH of schools in similar situations in the P5.

Honestly, bringing some financial sanity back to college athletics could be one silver lining of this pandemic.

That won't be the outcome. You will have a P2 (SEC & BIG1) along with a small handful of schools (OU, Texas, ND, etc) that continues the current pace.

The rest will fall off.

Much like what happened with Big East....nothing changed, you just had fewer teams competing

(07-13-2020 05:24 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-13-2020 04:24 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  There are going to be a BUNCH of schools in similar situations in the P5.

Honestly, bringing some financial sanity back to college athletics could be one silver lining of this pandemic.

That won't be the outcome. You will have a P2 (SEC & BIG1) along with a small handful of schools (OU, Texas, ND, etc) that continues the current pace.

The rest will fall off.

Much like what happened with Big East....nothing changed, you just had fewer teams competing

If no one plays this fall, everyone will be looking for a way to pay the bills. All 300 plus athletic departments in the country have the same problem.

No income

The real problem is every athletic department in the country is trying to balance the health of student athletes and fans with the need for income.

If there is no football that Big Ten Network and SEC Network is useless.