Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
Author Message
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,914
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #21
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-07-2020 09:52 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 08:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 07:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 06:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  https://twitter.com/chrislee70?ref_src=t...is-is-fine

They're going to handle athletic communications within the main campus communications department. Possibly the folks in the SID office can get jobs within the main communications office, but it's also possible some are out of a job.

That's sadly going to be happening elsewhere in colleges too. If sports aren't being played, there is no need for an SID staff.

Or they may be revaluating sports altogether, at least in regard to what maintaining a P5 level Athletic Department means. I'm not saying this is it, and I'm not saying it's not, but Vanderbilt has been scaling back prior to this and refuses to renovate venues to bring them up to SEC standards. They don't currently offer all of the required SEC sports and due to their long history with the SEC they get a pass.

I'm just saying that they are very pressed for space on campus, and they love their baseball and basketball. If there was to ever be a partial member of the SEC Vanderbilt would be the perfect test subject to make that transition.

It's worth watching.

Nah - Vandy’s value to the SEC is very similar to Northwestern to the Big Ten: elite academic schools that are directly in fantastic urban locations within their conference footprints. Those are the types of schools that still are invaluable even if they go 0-12.

On the flip side, P5 membership is what allows Vandy and Northwestern to win a lot of student cross-admit battles with the Ivy League or the University of Chicago/MIT-types. Their targets are extremely smart sociable kids that also want school spirit. From everything that I’ve seen, Vandy is consistently ranked as the happiest and most fun school in the country for *really* smart students and their SEC membership is an integral part of that.

Frank you are likely right about this, but you have to remember that Tennessee gives the SEC the Nashville market and while Vanderbilt is the academic bell cow of the conference and certainly has great value in that regard, we are talking about a conference which unlike the Big 10 looks at athletics and academics through separate lenses and not as a whole package. And that way of looking at athletics may be a reality everywhere sooner than we think.

Now that said dynamics for what makes a school profitable to other schools has changed and is changing still. In an era where brand power multiplies the national audience and when actual viewers may determine payouts more exclusively in the future, at some point the other 13 schools of the SEC and Big 10 may start to ask what exactly does this small viewership school that is not competitive in the revenue sports offer us besides wins on the schedule? Academic associations are nice, but Vanderbilt doesn't see itself as a peer to the Mississippi schools, or even Georgia. So their impact upon those schools academically is marginalized through nobody's fault. It simply is what it is.

Under the market model, especially if you couldn't adequately claim Nashville, Dallas/Ft. Worth / Atlanta / Chicago, etc with another large state school then having a physical presence in such a place was essential. I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that is going to be a factor in an age where technology counts precisely who it is that is watching.

We also don't know yet how some of these long established privates are going to handle the pay for play angle and the rights to image issues. So I don't just have my eye on Vanderbilt, though I consider Northwestern much less likely to make other choices than their Big 10 membership, I have my eye all all privates. Their circumstances are so unique compared to a lot of large state schools that while they may be benefitting from the social life of a big time athletic conference, many of them are more dedicated to their other missions more than they are athletics.

The space of a football field and parking for at Vanderbilt can earn the University so very much more if turned into research space. I know there is talk of using the professional stadium, but with the other issues all in a state of flux legally I think all of these administrations are having to do some very forward thinking about what to do if the relationship with athletics changes further.

Five years ago I would be right there with you in confidently proclaiming they aren't going anywhere. Now I'm simply not as sure. If they did not compete in football they would still be every bit in the hunt for the non revenue sports, bowling included, and with a lot more space on campus for research.

1) The Vols may deliver television screens in Nashville but the road trip to Nashville for other SEC East teams is always more attractive than a trip to Knoxville. The presence in Nashville also helps with Music Bowl affiliation.
2) Vandy is very good at baseball, which is more important in the SEC than in most leagues.
3) Vandy, despite being in the East Division, is not undoable for many SEC West schools and an attractive long weekend trip.
4) The Predators Arena is an attractive site for SEC men’s and women’s basketball tourneys.
5) Dichotomy between keeping the football stadium, and thus the sizable SEC network payout, or demolishing that facility to built research labs which will bring in big bucks is false. Vandy can build significant research facilities without bulldozing their field.
6) Vandy is, by virtue of their presence in a party city, an elite academic school and being in the SEC, had recruiting and revenue advantages that make them equally if not more attractive to other Southeastern/Southern FBS private schools who lack one or more of those three criteria: Duke, Wake, Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Baylor and Tulsa.
7) A Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Vandy, Duke and Wake league would have very desirable travel destinations in 7 of 8 conference towns. Sorry Winston-Salem. Baylor and Tulsa don’t get in because the only reason people want to visit Waco is Fixer-Upper fever and Tulsa is, well, Tulsa.

As a season football ticket holder for over 40 years, and baseball for over two decades, I know these things. But as Bob Dylan sang the times they are a changing.

I appreciate Vanderbilt's historical significance to the SEC, and appreciate Nashville's unique entertainment value. I don't necessarily agree that the football field's space would not be more profitably utilized otherwise. And you'll note I suggested a partial membership for them to remain in the SEC.

All of that is merely conjecture on my part at this time but pay for play, rights to image, and other legal issues are going to take a toll. And streaming is going to change the value that a set of schools, or a particular school, have to one another. What changes those things bring are yet to be determined. But those tasked with navigating those changes have to be really thinking outside of their familiar parameters in order to find their way in the midst of the changes.

Ten years realignment changed the college sports landscape. Technology, pandemic, and financial worries amid a major demographic shift which will occur by 2035 are going to change them now.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2020 10:12 PM by JRsec.)
07-07-2020 10:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,236
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #22
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-07-2020 09:52 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 08:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 07:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 06:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  https://twitter.com/chrislee70?ref_src=t...is-is-fine

They're going to handle athletic communications within the main campus communications department. Possibly the folks in the SID office can get jobs within the main communications office, but it's also possible some are out of a job.

That's sadly going to be happening elsewhere in colleges too. If sports aren't being played, there is no need for an SID staff.

Or they may be revaluating sports altogether, at least in regard to what maintaining a P5 level Athletic Department means. I'm not saying this is it, and I'm not saying it's not, but Vanderbilt has been scaling back prior to this and refuses to renovate venues to bring them up to SEC standards. They don't currently offer all of the required SEC sports and due to their long history with the SEC they get a pass.

I'm just saying that they are very pressed for space on campus, and they love their baseball and basketball. If there was to ever be a partial member of the SEC Vanderbilt would be the perfect test subject to make that transition.

It's worth watching.

Nah - Vandy’s value to the SEC is very similar to Northwestern to the Big Ten: elite academic schools that are directly in fantastic urban locations within their conference footprints. Those are the types of schools that still are invaluable even if they go 0-12.

On the flip side, P5 membership is what allows Vandy and Northwestern to win a lot of student cross-admit battles with the Ivy League or the University of Chicago/MIT-types. Their targets are extremely smart sociable kids that also want school spirit. From everything that I’ve seen, Vandy is consistently ranked as the happiest and most fun school in the country for *really* smart students and their SEC membership is an integral part of that.

Frank you are likely right about this, but you have to remember that Tennessee gives the SEC the Nashville market and while Vanderbilt is the academic bell cow of the conference and certainly has great value in that regard, we are talking about a conference which unlike the Big 10 looks at athletics and academics through separate lenses and not as a whole package. And that way of looking at athletics may be a reality everywhere sooner than we think.

Now that said dynamics for what makes a school profitable to other schools has changed and is changing still. In an era where brand power multiplies the national audience and when actual viewers may determine payouts more exclusively in the future, at some point the other 13 schools of the SEC and Big 10 may start to ask what exactly does this small viewership school that is not competitive in the revenue sports offer us besides wins on the schedule? Academic associations are nice, but Vanderbilt doesn't see itself as a peer to the Mississippi schools, or even Georgia. So their impact upon those schools academically is marginalized through nobody's fault. It simply is what it is.

Under the market model, especially if you couldn't adequately claim Nashville, Dallas/Ft. Worth / Atlanta / Chicago, etc with another large state school then having a physical presence in such a place was essential. I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that is going to be a factor in an age where technology counts precisely who it is that is watching.

We also don't know yet how some of these long established privates are going to handle the pay for play angle and the rights to image issues. So I don't just have my eye on Vanderbilt, though I consider Northwestern much less likely to make other choices than their Big 10 membership, I have my eye all all privates. Their circumstances are so unique compared to a lot of large state schools that while they may be benefitting from the social life of a big time athletic conference, many of them are more dedicated to their other missions more than they are athletics.

The space of a football field and parking for at Vanderbilt can earn the University so very much more if turned into research space. I know there is talk of using the professional stadium, but with the other issues all in a state of flux legally I think all of these administrations are having to do some very forward thinking about what to do if the relationship with athletics changes further.

Five years ago I would be right there with you in confidently proclaiming they aren't going anywhere. Now I'm simply not as sure. If they did not compete in football they would still be every bit in the hunt for the non revenue sports, bowling included, and with a lot more space on campus for research.

1) The Vols may deliver television screens in Nashville but the road trip to Nashville for other SEC East teams is always more attractive than a trip to Knoxville. The presence in Nashville also helps with Music Bowl affiliation.
2) Vandy is very good at baseball, which is more important in the SEC than in most leagues.
3) Vandy, despite being in the East Division, is not undoable for many SEC West schools and an attractive long weekend trip.
4) The Predators Arena is an attractive site for SEC men’s and women’s basketball tourneys.
5) Dichotomy between keeping the football stadium, and thus the sizable SEC network payout, or demolishing that facility to built research labs which will bring in big bucks is false. Vandy can build significant research facilities without bulldozing their field.
6) Vandy is, by virtue of their presence in a party city, an elite academic school and being in the SEC, had recruiting and revenue advantages that make them equally if not more attractive to other Southeastern/Southern FBS private schools who lack one or more of those three criteria: Duke, Wake, Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Baylor and Tulsa.
7) A Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Vandy, Duke and Wake league would have very desirable travel destinations in 7 of 8 conference towns. Sorry Winston-Salem. Baylor and Tulsa don’t get in because the only reason people want to visit Waco is Fixer-Upper fever and Tulsa is, well, Tulsa.

Travel is the one thing that could keep this league from happening. Because the schools are so spread apart it would be expensive to move the women's volleyball team around for a mid-week game.

That league, would be the perfect place for Army and Navy to compete.
Also possibilities: Boston College and even a public; Georgia Tech which struggles to generate dollars.

Maybe then, Northwestern (which has a larger graduate population than UG) and even Notre Dame may become interested.

Boston College, Army, Navy, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami
Notre Dame, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Rice, SMU, TCU

Likely? Maybe not, but something to keep on the back burner as a future scenario if NIL and pay for play are seen as not being compatible with the mission of some academic institutions.
07-08-2020 04:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,281
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 217
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #23
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
On one side, to hear about Vandy and how sports seem to always find the bottom of the shoe with regards to infrastructural investments and departmental adjustments, reads a little too political or pointed at times. Like athletics are the favorite sacrificial lamb. And for a school that has money, seems unnecessary?

Yet, I can’t help but think what they do with restructures and cuts is what they and every other big university should be doing anyway no matter the size of endowment or private/public status? A rich school that cares about every penny coming in and out. So, while reading political, it also comes off as responsible? Potentially commendable, even though you hate seeing people lose their jobs?
07-08-2020 06:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gamecock Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,979
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 182
I Root For: South Carolina
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
I don’t see Vanderbilt going anywhere - certainly not in the near future. I don’t think any SEC school would advocate for pushing them out and Vanderbilt has no reason to want out
07-08-2020 07:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SkullyMaroo Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 11,195
Joined: Mar 2009
Reputation: 635
I Root For: South Alabama
Location: Mobile
Post: #25
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
I’m sure Vandy can’t wait to be rid of the SEC and their massive yearly payout.
07-08-2020 08:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 10,390
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 950
I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #26
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 08:12 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  I’m sure Vandy can’t wait to be rid of the SEC and their massive yearly payout.

Indeed, we are not going to voluntarily leave. We enjoy suckling on the engorged milt teats of "Mama SEC Sow."
07-08-2020 08:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,914
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 06:07 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  On one side, to hear about Vandy and how sports seem to always find the bottom of the shoe with regards to infrastructural investments and departmental adjustments, reads a little too political or pointed at times. Like athletics are the favorite sacrificial lamb. And for a school that has money, seems unnecessary?

Yet, I can’t help but think what they do with restructures and cuts is what they and every other big university should be doing anyway no matter the size of endowment or private/public status? A rich school that cares about every penny coming in and out. So, while reading political, it also comes off as responsible? Potentially commendable, even though you hate seeing people lose their jobs?

I think there is great truth in this outlook. And I know there is a lack of responsibility in the handling of resources by many of the SEC's schools. But realistically, the SEC is about to hit an insane amount of revenue precisely because it is lavish with expenditures. When everyone is drunk at the punchbowl they aren't thinking about what's down the road! And while the SEC has never asked anyone to leave and certainly would not ask Vanderbilt to do so, everyone notices the lack of cooperation from Vanderbilt when it comes to keeping pace. So moves like this one as responsible as it may be just adds to the perception, if not reality, that they aren't going to participate in what appears to most to be the endeavors helping to drive the athletic values up.

Again I don't expect in my lifetime to see Vanderbilt leave the conference, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more conferences, including the SEC, consider a partial membership move for historical and venerated privates that simply choose not to invest in football. So instead of pressuring them to leave the effort will be made to accommodate their desires to deemphasize the costliest of their athletic offerings.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2020 10:11 AM by JRsec.)
07-08-2020 10:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
whittx Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,703
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 122
I Root For: FSU, Bport,Corn
Location:
Post: #28
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-07-2020 09:52 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 08:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 07:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 06:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  https://twitter.com/chrislee70?ref_src=t...is-is-fine

They're going to handle athletic communications within the main campus communications department. Possibly the folks in the SID office can get jobs within the main communications office, but it's also possible some are out of a job.

That's sadly going to be happening elsewhere in colleges too. If sports aren't being played, there is no need for an SID staff.

Or they may be revaluating sports altogether, at least in regard to what maintaining a P5 level Athletic Department means. I'm not saying this is it, and I'm not saying it's not, but Vanderbilt has been scaling back prior to this and refuses to renovate venues to bring them up to SEC standards. They don't currently offer all of the required SEC sports and due to their long history with the SEC they get a pass.

I'm just saying that they are very pressed for space on campus, and they love their baseball and basketball. If there was to ever be a partial member of the SEC Vanderbilt would be the perfect test subject to make that transition.

It's worth watching.

Nah - Vandy’s value to the SEC is very similar to Northwestern to the Big Ten: elite academic schools that are directly in fantastic urban locations within their conference footprints. Those are the types of schools that still are invaluable even if they go 0-12.

On the flip side, P5 membership is what allows Vandy and Northwestern to win a lot of student cross-admit battles with the Ivy League or the University of Chicago/MIT-types. Their targets are extremely smart sociable kids that also want school spirit. From everything that I’ve seen, Vandy is consistently ranked as the happiest and most fun school in the country for *really* smart students and their SEC membership is an integral part of that.

Frank you are likely right about this, but you have to remember that Tennessee gives the SEC the Nashville market and while Vanderbilt is the academic bell cow of the conference and certainly has great value in that regard, we are talking about a conference which unlike the Big 10 looks at athletics and academics through separate lenses and not as a whole package. And that way of looking at athletics may be a reality everywhere sooner than we think.

Now that said dynamics for what makes a school profitable to other schools has changed and is changing still. In an era where brand power multiplies the national audience and when actual viewers may determine payouts more exclusively in the future, at some point the other 13 schools of the SEC and Big 10 may start to ask what exactly does this small viewership school that is not competitive in the revenue sports offer us besides wins on the schedule? Academic associations are nice, but Vanderbilt doesn't see itself as a peer to the Mississippi schools, or even Georgia. So their impact upon those schools academically is marginalized through nobody's fault. It simply is what it is.

Under the market model, especially if you couldn't adequately claim Nashville, Dallas/Ft. Worth / Atlanta / Chicago, etc with another large state school then having a physical presence in such a place was essential. I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that is going to be a factor in an age where technology counts precisely who it is that is watching.

We also don't know yet how some of these long established privates are going to handle the pay for play angle and the rights to image issues. So I don't just have my eye on Vanderbilt, though I consider Northwestern much less likely to make other choices than their Big 10 membership, I have my eye all all privates. Their circumstances are so unique compared to a lot of large state schools that while they may be benefitting from the social life of a big time athletic conference, many of them are more dedicated to their other missions more than they are athletics.

The space of a football field and parking for at Vanderbilt can earn the University so very much more if turned into research space. I know there is talk of using the professional stadium, but with the other issues all in a state of flux legally I think all of these administrations are having to do some very forward thinking about what to do if the relationship with athletics changes further.

Five years ago I would be right there with you in confidently proclaiming they aren't going anywhere. Now I'm simply not as sure. If they did not compete in football they would still be every bit in the hunt for the non revenue sports, bowling included, and with a lot more space on campus for research.

1) The Vols may deliver television screens in Nashville but the road trip to Nashville for other SEC East teams is always more attractive than a trip to Knoxville. The presence in Nashville also helps with Music Bowl affiliation.
2) Vandy is very good at baseball, which is more important in the SEC than in most leagues.
3) Vandy, despite being in the East Division, is not undoable for many SEC West schools and an attractive long weekend trip.
4) The Predators Arena is an attractive site for SEC men’s and women’s basketball tourneys.
5) Dichotomy between keeping the football stadium, and thus the sizable SEC network payout, or demolishing that facility to built research labs which will bring in big bucks is false. Vandy can build significant research facilities without bulldozing their field.
6) Vandy is, by virtue of their presence in a party city, an elite academic school and being in the SEC, had recruiting and revenue advantages that make them equally if not more attractive to other Southeastern/Southern FBS private schools who lack one or more of those three criteria: Duke, Wake, Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Baylor and Tulsa.
7) A Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Vandy, Duke and Wake league would have very desirable travel destinations in 7 of 8 conference towns. Sorry Winston-Salem. Baylor and Tulsa don’t get in because the only reason people want to visit Waco is Fixer-Upper fever and Tulsa is, well, Tulsa.

But Waco has the Dr. Pepper Museum and the Texas Sports Hall of Fame...
07-08-2020 11:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
whittx Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,703
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 122
I Root For: FSU, Bport,Corn
Location:
Post: #29
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 04:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:52 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 08:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 07:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Or they may be revaluating sports altogether, at least in regard to what maintaining a P5 level Athletic Department means. I'm not saying this is it, and I'm not saying it's not, but Vanderbilt has been scaling back prior to this and refuses to renovate venues to bring them up to SEC standards. They don't currently offer all of the required SEC sports and due to their long history with the SEC they get a pass.

I'm just saying that they are very pressed for space on campus, and they love their baseball and basketball. If there was to ever be a partial member of the SEC Vanderbilt would be the perfect test subject to make that transition.

It's worth watching.

Nah - Vandy’s value to the SEC is very similar to Northwestern to the Big Ten: elite academic schools that are directly in fantastic urban locations within their conference footprints. Those are the types of schools that still are invaluable even if they go 0-12.

On the flip side, P5 membership is what allows Vandy and Northwestern to win a lot of student cross-admit battles with the Ivy League or the University of Chicago/MIT-types. Their targets are extremely smart sociable kids that also want school spirit. From everything that I’ve seen, Vandy is consistently ranked as the happiest and most fun school in the country for *really* smart students and their SEC membership is an integral part of that.

Frank you are likely right about this, but you have to remember that Tennessee gives the SEC the Nashville market and while Vanderbilt is the academic bell cow of the conference and certainly has great value in that regard, we are talking about a conference which unlike the Big 10 looks at athletics and academics through separate lenses and not as a whole package. And that way of looking at athletics may be a reality everywhere sooner than we think.

Now that said dynamics for what makes a school profitable to other schools has changed and is changing still. In an era where brand power multiplies the national audience and when actual viewers may determine payouts more exclusively in the future, at some point the other 13 schools of the SEC and Big 10 may start to ask what exactly does this small viewership school that is not competitive in the revenue sports offer us besides wins on the schedule? Academic associations are nice, but Vanderbilt doesn't see itself as a peer to the Mississippi schools, or even Georgia. So their impact upon those schools academically is marginalized through nobody's fault. It simply is what it is.

Under the market model, especially if you couldn't adequately claim Nashville, Dallas/Ft. Worth / Atlanta / Chicago, etc with another large state school then having a physical presence in such a place was essential. I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that is going to be a factor in an age where technology counts precisely who it is that is watching.

We also don't know yet how some of these long established privates are going to handle the pay for play angle and the rights to image issues. So I don't just have my eye on Vanderbilt, though I consider Northwestern much less likely to make other choices than their Big 10 membership, I have my eye all all privates. Their circumstances are so unique compared to a lot of large state schools that while they may be benefitting from the social life of a big time athletic conference, many of them are more dedicated to their other missions more than they are athletics.

The space of a football field and parking for at Vanderbilt can earn the University so very much more if turned into research space. I know there is talk of using the professional stadium, but with the other issues all in a state of flux legally I think all of these administrations are having to do some very forward thinking about what to do if the relationship with athletics changes further.

Five years ago I would be right there with you in confidently proclaiming they aren't going anywhere. Now I'm simply not as sure. If they did not compete in football they would still be every bit in the hunt for the non revenue sports, bowling included, and with a lot more space on campus for research.

1) The Vols may deliver television screens in Nashville but the road trip to Nashville for other SEC East teams is always more attractive than a trip to Knoxville. The presence in Nashville also helps with Music Bowl affiliation.
2) Vandy is very good at baseball, which is more important in the SEC than in most leagues.
3) Vandy, despite being in the East Division, is not undoable for many SEC West schools and an attractive long weekend trip.
4) The Predators Arena is an attractive site for SEC men’s and women’s basketball tourneys.
5) Dichotomy between keeping the football stadium, and thus the sizable SEC network payout, or demolishing that facility to built research labs which will bring in big bucks is false. Vandy can build significant research facilities without bulldozing their field.
6) Vandy is, by virtue of their presence in a party city, an elite academic school and being in the SEC, had recruiting and revenue advantages that make them equally if not more attractive to other Southeastern/Southern FBS private schools who lack one or more of those three criteria: Duke, Wake, Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Baylor and Tulsa.
7) A Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Vandy, Duke and Wake league would have very desirable travel destinations in 7 of 8 conference towns. Sorry Winston-Salem. Baylor and Tulsa don’t get in because the only reason people want to visit Waco is Fixer-Upper fever and Tulsa is, well, Tulsa.

Travel is the one thing that could keep this league from happening. Because the schools are so spread apart it would be expensive to move the women's volleyball team around for a mid-week game.

That league, would be the perfect place for Army and Navy to compete.
Also possibilities: Boston College and even a public; Georgia Tech which struggles to generate dollars.

Maybe then, Northwestern (which has a larger graduate population than UG) and even Notre Dame may become interested.

Boston College, Army, Navy, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami
Notre Dame, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Rice, SMU, TCU

Likely? Maybe not, but something to keep on the back burner as a future scenario if NIL and pay for play are seen as not being compatible with the mission of some academic institutions.
You have 3 sets of logical travel partners. Miami/Vandy is an issue.
07-08-2020 11:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DFW HOYA Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,410
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 265
I Root For: Georgetown
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #30
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
This is Vandy being Vandy. It eliminated the entire athletic department structure a decade ago and then brought it back. There is nothing earth-shaking about the SID reporting to university communications.
07-08-2020 11:28 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 10,390
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 950
I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #31
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 11:28 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is Vandy being Vandy. It eliminated the entire athletic department structure a decade ago and then brought it back. There is nothing earth-shaking about the SID reporting to university communications.

You are correct.
07-08-2020 11:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CarlSmithCenter Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 931
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 86
I Root For: Ball So Hard U
Location:
Post: #32
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 11:22 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 04:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:52 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 09:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 08:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Nah - Vandy’s value to the SEC is very similar to Northwestern to the Big Ten: elite academic schools that are directly in fantastic urban locations within their conference footprints. Those are the types of schools that still are invaluable even if they go 0-12.

On the flip side, P5 membership is what allows Vandy and Northwestern to win a lot of student cross-admit battles with the Ivy League or the University of Chicago/MIT-types. Their targets are extremely smart sociable kids that also want school spirit. From everything that I’ve seen, Vandy is consistently ranked as the happiest and most fun school in the country for *really* smart students and their SEC membership is an integral part of that.

Frank you are likely right about this, but you have to remember that Tennessee gives the SEC the Nashville market and while Vanderbilt is the academic bell cow of the conference and certainly has great value in that regard, we are talking about a conference which unlike the Big 10 looks at athletics and academics through separate lenses and not as a whole package. And that way of looking at athletics may be a reality everywhere sooner than we think.

Now that said dynamics for what makes a school profitable to other schools has changed and is changing still. In an era where brand power multiplies the national audience and when actual viewers may determine payouts more exclusively in the future, at some point the other 13 schools of the SEC and Big 10 may start to ask what exactly does this small viewership school that is not competitive in the revenue sports offer us besides wins on the schedule? Academic associations are nice, but Vanderbilt doesn't see itself as a peer to the Mississippi schools, or even Georgia. So their impact upon those schools academically is marginalized through nobody's fault. It simply is what it is.

Under the market model, especially if you couldn't adequately claim Nashville, Dallas/Ft. Worth / Atlanta / Chicago, etc with another large state school then having a physical presence in such a place was essential. I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that is going to be a factor in an age where technology counts precisely who it is that is watching.

We also don't know yet how some of these long established privates are going to handle the pay for play angle and the rights to image issues. So I don't just have my eye on Vanderbilt, though I consider Northwestern much less likely to make other choices than their Big 10 membership, I have my eye all all privates. Their circumstances are so unique compared to a lot of large state schools that while they may be benefitting from the social life of a big time athletic conference, many of them are more dedicated to their other missions more than they are athletics.

The space of a football field and parking for at Vanderbilt can earn the University so very much more if turned into research space. I know there is talk of using the professional stadium, but with the other issues all in a state of flux legally I think all of these administrations are having to do some very forward thinking about what to do if the relationship with athletics changes further.

Five years ago I would be right there with you in confidently proclaiming they aren't going anywhere. Now I'm simply not as sure. If they did not compete in football they would still be every bit in the hunt for the non revenue sports, bowling included, and with a lot more space on campus for research.

1) The Vols may deliver television screens in Nashville but the road trip to Nashville for other SEC East teams is always more attractive than a trip to Knoxville. The presence in Nashville also helps with Music Bowl affiliation.
2) Vandy is very good at baseball, which is more important in the SEC than in most leagues.
3) Vandy, despite being in the East Division, is not undoable for many SEC West schools and an attractive long weekend trip.
4) The Predators Arena is an attractive site for SEC men’s and women’s basketball tourneys.
5) Dichotomy between keeping the football stadium, and thus the sizable SEC network payout, or demolishing that facility to built research labs which will bring in big bucks is false. Vandy can build significant research facilities without bulldozing their field.
6) Vandy is, by virtue of their presence in a party city, an elite academic school and being in the SEC, had recruiting and revenue advantages that make them equally if not more attractive to other Southeastern/Southern FBS private schools who lack one or more of those three criteria: Duke, Wake, Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Baylor and Tulsa.
7) A Tulane, Miami, TCU, SMU, Rice, Vandy, Duke and Wake league would have very desirable travel destinations in 7 of 8 conference towns. Sorry Winston-Salem. Baylor and Tulsa don’t get in because the only reason people want to visit Waco is Fixer-Upper fever and Tulsa is, well, Tulsa.

Travel is the one thing that could keep this league from happening. Because the schools are so spread apart it would be expensive to move the women's volleyball team around for a mid-week game.

That league, would be the perfect place for Army and Navy to compete.
Also possibilities: Boston College and even a public; Georgia Tech which struggles to generate dollars.

Maybe then, Northwestern (which has a larger graduate population than UG) and even Notre Dame may become interested.

Boston College, Army, Navy, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami
Notre Dame, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Rice, SMU, TCU

Likely? Maybe not, but something to keep on the back burner as a future scenario if NIL and pay for play are seen as not being compatible with the mission of some academic institutions.
You have 3 sets of logical travel partners. Miami/Vandy is an issue.

If the goals of this proposed pseudo-Magnolia Conference are to create an all-sports league where members won't have to maintain a P5 level football budget, including full cost of attendance and the facilities arms race, and/or to have to directly pay players for name, image and likeness rights when that inevitable change comes (where by when Congress, the states, or the courts), then I think you would have to exclude at least Georgia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame, Duke and TCU from consideration.

First, Notre Dame isn't going join a conference for football period, and this proposal would give them inferior competition in Olympic sports.

Likewise, NCAA doesn't allow single sport FBS football conferences, so if GT, TCU and Miami joined this proposed league they'd be throwing in the towel and giving up on big time football in exchange for what, exactly?

Alternatively, if this new league didn't sponsor football, I don't think the potential benefits in basketball and Olympic sports over their current leagues would be worth it for GT, Miami or TCU, or even BC, Wake, Northwestern or Vandy, to go independent in football (I don't see any of them having the clout to get what UConn couldn't from the American, i.e. leaving football but taking everything else to a new league). Even if the participating schools had some sort of scheduling alliance I would be worse than what any of the P5 members of this proposed new conference currently has.

I do think the ACC could be convinced to let move its football to another league if MBB and other sports stayed put, which isn't currently possible (unless this new league is FCS level). However, if Duke moved FB to this league, or sent all sports, it could face potential legal challenges for fully funding MBB but not football or other sports. It would certainly drive down the media rights value of this potential new league if it either didn't have football (a worse Big East) or was the FBS-Pioneer League
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2020 01:40 PM by CarlSmithCenter.)
07-08-2020 01:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AllTideUp Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,154
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 559
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #33
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.
07-08-2020 02:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 10,390
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 950
I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #34
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.


This is a very fair and constructively critical post. Well done, AllTideUp.

Vanderbilt — the university broadly and the athletics department specifically — is an unusual animal in the higher ed landscape. There is actually no private school like it located in the South.

Emory is located in a major city and is big time in terms of academics — but does not offer DI sports.

Duke is elite in academics and offer DI sports — but is located in the smallish Durham.

Miami is located in a major city and offers DI sports. But its academics, though strong, are not Top 30 to 40 or so elite.

Tulane is top 40-ish academically and located in a fantastic city, but its athletics are in a G5. Ditto for Rice.

Wake Forest plays in the ACC but is located in Winston-Salem (nice town but smallish) and is not top 40 academics.

Georgetown (some would call it the South in a loose sense) is located in the impressive D.C. and the hoop-strong Big East. It also offers strong academics. But no DI football of P5 home.

So it's a challenge to point to a "role model" for VU and from which it could take some cues.

Vanderbilt does, indeed, need to make some major changes/improvements in football. Sadly, our new AD does not have a football background and I am not even remotely optimistic.

My hope is that with any future massive shift in the college athletics landscape, the university will not be left in the cold. I'm hopeful VU will be fine but ...
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2020 04:02 PM by bill dazzle.)
07-08-2020 03:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,236
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #35
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 03:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.


This is a very fair and constructively critical post. Well done, AllTideUp.

Vanderbilt — the university broadly and the athletics department specifically — is an unusual animal in the higher ed landscape. There is actually no private school like it located in the South.

Emory is located in a major city and is big time in terms of academics — but does not offer DI sports.

Duke is elite in academics and offer DI sports — but is located in the smallish Durham.

Miami is located in a major city and offers DI sports. But its academics, though strong, are not Top 30 to 40 or so elite.

Tulane is top 40-ish academically and located in a fantastic city, but its athletics are in a G5. Ditto for Rice.

Wake Forest plays in the ACC but is located in Winston-Salem (nice town but smallish) and is not top 40 academics.

Georgetown (some would call it the South in a loose sense) is located in the impressive D.C. and the hoop-strong Big East. It also offers strong academics. But no DI football of P5 home.

So it's a challenge to point to a "role model" for VU and from which it could take some cues.

Vanderbilt does, indeed, need to make some major changes/improvements in football. Sadly, our new AD does not have a football background and I am not even remotely optimistic.

My hope is that with any future massive shift in the college athletics landscape, the university will not be left in the cold. I'm hopeful VU will be fine but ...

Bill I do want to point out that there are at least 2 Million people living within 35 mile radius of the Duke campus and more than a million surrounding Wake Forest.
The towns are small by big city standards, but the population within the same land area as some large metropolitan areas may surprise you.
Wake county (Raleigh/NC State) has a greater population than Mecklenberg County (Charlotte). Orange County (UNC) abuts Durham county (Duke) which abuts Wake County.
07-08-2020 06:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
pkptigers07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,772
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 127
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Memphis, TN
Post: #36
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
This is nothing new. They did away with their athletic administration in 2003. That clearly didn’t last long since they had a sports information department in 2020. This is all just posturing towards institutional efficiency and cost savings. Reality is that it’s largely just shifting money from one department to another. At best a few mid to upper level administrative positions are no longer necessary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/s...5ea8ce6a0/
07-08-2020 07:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 10,390
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 950
I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #37
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 06:25 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 03:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.


This is a very fair and constructively critical post. Well done, AllTideUp.

Vanderbilt — the university broadly and the athletics department specifically — is an unusual animal in the higher ed landscape. There is actually no private school like it located in the South.

Emory is located in a major city and is big time in terms of academics — but does not offer DI sports.

Duke is elite in academics and offer DI sports — but is located in the smallish Durham.

Miami is located in a major city and offers DI sports. But its academics, though strong, are not Top 30 to 40 or so elite.

Tulane is top 40-ish academically and located in a fantastic city, but its athletics are in a G5. Ditto for Rice.

Wake Forest plays in the ACC but is located in Winston-Salem (nice town but smallish) and is not top 40 academics.

Georgetown (some would call it the South in a loose sense) is located in the impressive D.C. and the hoop-strong Big East. It also offers strong academics. But no DI football of P5 home.

So it's a challenge to point to a "role model" for VU and from which it could take some cues.

Vanderbilt does, indeed, need to make some major changes/improvements in football. Sadly, our new AD does not have a football background and I am not even remotely optimistic.

My hope is that with any future massive shift in the college athletics landscape, the university will not be left in the cold. I'm hopeful VU will be fine but ...

Bill I do want to point out that there are at least 2 Million people living within 35 mile radius of the Duke campus and more than a million surrounding Wake Forest.
The towns are small by big city standards, but the population within the same land area as some large metropolitan areas may surprise you.
Wake county (Raleigh/NC State) has a greater population than Mecklenberg County (Charlotte). Orange County (UNC) abuts Durham county (Duke) which abuts Wake County.


Very good points, XLance. My sister once lived in Chapel Hill (and Pittsboro prior to that) and graduated from both N.C. State and UNC. The Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA population is almost 2.1 million. Very legit. I strongly enjoyed the Triangle area during my several visits to the two homes of my sister and her husband.

I guess I should not have "penalized" Duke for being located in the smallish (but growing nicely) Durham. The Triangle is so unusual with three big-time universities.

We thought one of my sister's children might end up at Duke to complete the "family trifecta." But it did not happen.

I once visited Winston-Salem (saw the WFU campus) and was fairly impressed. That city "plays bigger" than its population suggests.

Though our family strongly cheer for the Heels, we like the Wolfpack, too. As to the Blue Devils ... maybe one day.
07-08-2020 09:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,281
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 217
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #38
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-08-2020 10:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 06:07 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  On one side, to hear about Vandy and how sports seem to always find the bottom of the shoe with regards to infrastructural investments and departmental adjustments, reads a little too political or pointed at times. Like athletics are the favorite sacrificial lamb. And for a school that has money, seems unnecessary?

Yet, I can’t help but think what they do with restructures and cuts is what they and every other big university should be doing anyway no matter the size of endowment or private/public status? A rich school that cares about every penny coming in and out. So, while reading political, it also comes off as responsible? Potentially commendable, even though you hate seeing people lose their jobs?

I think there is great truth in this outlook. And I know there is a lack of responsibility in the handling of resources by many of the SEC's schools. But realistically, the SEC is about to hit an insane amount of revenue precisely because it is lavish with expenditures. When everyone is drunk at the punchbowl they aren't thinking about what's down the road! And while the SEC has never asked anyone to leave and certainly would not ask Vanderbilt to do so, everyone notices the lack of cooperation from Vanderbilt when it comes to keeping pace. So moves like this one as responsible as it may be just adds to the perception, if not reality, that they aren't going to participate in what appears to most to be the endeavors helping to drive the athletic values up.

Again I don't expect in my lifetime to see Vanderbilt leave the conference, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more conferences, including the SEC, consider a partial membership move for historical and venerated privates that simply choose not to invest in football. So instead of pressuring them to leave the effort will be made to accommodate their desires to deemphasize the costliest of their athletic offerings.

Yet, I suspect that if the SEC did ask Vandy to start spending or leave, I think the Big Ten and ACC would be right there to grab them. It’s not like all of the Big Ten members are big spenders. Purdue is notoriously cheap, yet sees success in both basketball and football occasionally. Indiana and even Minnesota weren’t usually big spenders either, iirc. I don’t think Rutgers puts out as much either, though, doing business in NYC metro is not cheap; same for UMD and their location, but they just bleed money.
07-09-2020 12:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,914
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #39
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
(07-09-2020 12:00 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 10:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-08-2020 06:07 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  On one side, to hear about Vandy and how sports seem to always find the bottom of the shoe with regards to infrastructural investments and departmental adjustments, reads a little too political or pointed at times. Like athletics are the favorite sacrificial lamb. And for a school that has money, seems unnecessary?

Yet, I can’t help but think what they do with restructures and cuts is what they and every other big university should be doing anyway no matter the size of endowment or private/public status? A rich school that cares about every penny coming in and out. So, while reading political, it also comes off as responsible? Potentially commendable, even though you hate seeing people lose their jobs?

I think there is great truth in this outlook. And I know there is a lack of responsibility in the handling of resources by many of the SEC's schools. But realistically, the SEC is about to hit an insane amount of revenue precisely because it is lavish with expenditures. When everyone is drunk at the punchbowl they aren't thinking about what's down the road! And while the SEC has never asked anyone to leave and certainly would not ask Vanderbilt to do so, everyone notices the lack of cooperation from Vanderbilt when it comes to keeping pace. So moves like this one as responsible as it may be just adds to the perception, if not reality, that they aren't going to participate in what appears to most to be the endeavors helping to drive the athletic values up.

Again I don't expect in my lifetime to see Vanderbilt leave the conference, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more conferences, including the SEC, consider a partial membership move for historical and venerated privates that simply choose not to invest in football. So instead of pressuring them to leave the effort will be made to accommodate their desires to deemphasize the costliest of their athletic offerings.

Yet, I suspect that if the SEC did ask Vandy to start spending or leave, I think the Big Ten and ACC would be right there to grab them. It’s not like all of the Big Ten members are big spenders. Purdue is notoriously cheap, yet sees success in both basketball and football occasionally. Indiana and even Minnesota weren’t usually big spenders either, iirc. I don’t think Rutgers puts out as much either, though, doing business in NYC metro is not cheap; same for UMD and their location, but they just bleed money.

While the SEC will ask them to invest more in facilities and athletics it will never ask them to leave. No school in the SEC's history has been asked to leave, nor will there be one. But should the image issue or stipends, or limited pay for play prove to be a course Vanderbilt doesn't choose to chart then they might ask to leave. De-emphasizing football might prove to be the more likely move in which case they might one day seek a partial for that. If the 5 games they kept from the SEC were Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Kentucky I think that would be possible for them. If they could win 2 of those in any given year with a less difficult scheduling for the other 7 games they could have a more legitimate chance for bowl success.

But rest assured if Vanderbilt leaves the SEC or seeks a different status it will be their choice.

As to your observation that the Big 10 or ACC would snap them up, I don't disagree. I think Vanderbilt's best fit would be the ACC, but the money in the Big 10 would be significantly higher than that of the ACC.
07-09-2020 02:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 10,390
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 950
I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #40
RE: Vanderbilt eliminates its athletic communications (SID) department
I am on record on this board as saying the "most ideal" league for Vanderbilt is the ACC. But I've grown over the years to be comfortable with the SEC and hope we stay there for years to come. The SEC has been good to VU and I hope we have been good for the league.

I would also be fine with the wildcard scenario of VU ditching football altogether and joining the Big East. But that is no more likely to happen than long-time Commodore fan Bill Dazzle — wearing his "Anchor Down" speedo swim trunks and enjoying a cup of hydrogenated-oil-free rice milk — relaxing tonight in a hot tub with four young lovelies who find the eccentric, and considerably older, chap alluring due to his passion for coin magic, urban placemaking themes and the standup comedy skills of the late Rodney Dangerfield.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2020 03:21 PM by bill dazzle.)
07-09-2020 03:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.