(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

(07-09-2020 04:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

I agree with most of what you say. Good points.

But as somebody who lived 3.5 years in Chicago (go, Cubs and DePaul) and who loves the Windy City (and who now lives in Nashville), ponder this:

The average college football fan (and, admittedly, I'm stereotyping) would rather see a game in Nashville and then hit Lower Broadway than ... freeze in Evanston and take the time to venture into the heart of Chicago.

Nashville/Vanderbilt is warmer and more logistically manageable (the campus and downtown are located within close proximity) than Chicago/Northwestern. And, there is with Nashville, shall we say, a "cultural dynamic" (college football, country music and cheap beer go together for many traveling fans) at play.

I work in the media and talk to lots of folks from out of town. They are enamored with Nashville. I even find it a bit puzzling.

As such, Vanderbilt's value is, in large part, its Music City location. The SEC loves having Vanderbilt for its fans to travel to Nashville.

For the record, and since you and I are Bearcat fans, I much prefer Cincinnati to Nashville on many levels (including the architecture, craft beer scene, zoo, art museum, Mt. Adams, chili, etc.). But the appeal of Nashville cannot be overstated. Nashville has a brand. By comparison, Charlotte, Jacksonville and the cities in Ohio (and I like them all, including Dayton) ... do not.

Add Vandy to the AAC West. 7 teams in the west and 5 in the east!

AAC West Rivalries:

UH vs SMU (SWC rivals)
Memphis vs Vandy (in-state battle)
Tulane vs Tulsa (Tulsane Championship)
Navy has the Army game.

(07-09-2020 08:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 08:19 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 03:13 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I am on record on this board as saying the "most ideal" league for Vanderbilt is the ACC. But I've grown over the years to be comfortable with the SEC and hope we stay there for years to come. The SEC has been good to VU and I hope we have been good for the league.

I would also be fine with the wildcard scenario of VU ditching football altogether and joining the Big East. But that is no more likely to happen than long-time Commodore fan Bill Dazzle — wearing his "Anchor Down" speedo swim trunks and enjoying a cup of hydrogenated-oil-free rice milk — relaxing tonight in a hot tub with four young lovelies who find the eccentric, and considerably older, chap alluring due to his passion for coin magic, urban placemaking themes and the standup comedy skills of the late Rodney Dangerfield.

It's so frustratingly sad that a man with such aspirations would have as his idle one who always said, "I tell ya, I get no respect!".

I was going to use Phyllis Diller or Don Rickles but assumed most of the folks on this board would not recognize either name.

If you had chosen Phyllis that would make you Fang. If you had chosen Rickles that would have made you a poor judge of talent. Flip Wilson was available! And you could have then claimed the "Devil made you do it!"

I strongly enjoyed Flip Wilson back in the day. What about the legendary Jonathan Winters? My father, 89, is a major Redd Foxx fan.

Don Rickles is one of the my all-time 10 favorite funny people — though I am in the minority on that one. George Carlin is likely my favorite stand-up comic.

(07-09-2020 04:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

I agree with most of what you say. Good points.

But as somebody who lived 3.5 years in Chicago (go, Cubs and DePaul) and who loves the Windy City (and who now lives in Nashville), ponder this:

The average college football fan (and, admittedly, I'm stereotyping) would rather see a game in Nashville and then hit Lower Broadway than ... freeze in Evanston and take the time to venture into the heart of Chicago.

Nashville/Vanderbilt is warmer and more logistically manageable (the campus and downtown are located within close proximity) than Chicago/Northwestern. And, there is with Nashville, shall we say, a "cultural dynamic" (college football, country music and cheap beer go together for many traveling fans) at play.

I work in the media and talk to lots of folks from out of town. They are enamored with Nashville. I even find it a bit puzzling.

As such, Vanderbilt's value is, in large part, its Music City location. The SEC loves having Vanderbilt for its fans to travel to Nashville.

For the record, and since you and I are Bearcat fans, I much prefer Cincinnati to Nashville on many levels (including the architecture, craft beer scene, zoo, art museum, Mt. Adams, chili, etc.). But the appeal of Nashville cannot be overstated. Nashville has a brand. By comparison, Charlotte, Jacksonville and the cities in Ohio (and I like them all, including Dayton) ... do not.

I completely agree that Nashville has a brand.

But so does Gatlinburg. So does Branson. So does New Orleans. Doesn't mean the SEC wants/needs a team in those places.

Tulane is actually a great comparable for Vanderbilt. Not quite as good academically as Vandy, but New Orleans is one of the only cities with a better brand than Nashville.

Tulane is in the same conference as my school, and I'd just as soon not have them. I love visiting New Orleans, but they don't add to the bottom line.

(07-10-2020 01:50 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

I agree with most of what you say. Good points.

But as somebody who lived 3.5 years in Chicago (go, Cubs and DePaul) and who loves the Windy City (and who now lives in Nashville), ponder this:

The average college football fan (and, admittedly, I'm stereotyping) would rather see a game in Nashville and then hit Lower Broadway than ... freeze in Evanston and take the time to venture into the heart of Chicago.

Nashville/Vanderbilt is warmer and more logistically manageable (the campus and downtown are located within close proximity) than Chicago/Northwestern. And, there is with Nashville, shall we say, a "cultural dynamic" (college football, country music and cheap beer go together for many traveling fans) at play.

I work in the media and talk to lots of folks from out of town. They are enamored with Nashville. I even find it a bit puzzling.

As such, Vanderbilt's value is, in large part, its Music City location. The SEC loves having Vanderbilt for its fans to travel to Nashville.

For the record, and since you and I are Bearcat fans, I much prefer Cincinnati to Nashville on many levels (including the architecture, craft beer scene, zoo, art museum, Mt. Adams, chili, etc.). But the appeal of Nashville cannot be overstated. Nashville has a brand. By comparison, Charlotte, Jacksonville and the cities in Ohio (and I like them all, including Dayton) ... do not.

I completely agree that Nashville has a brand.

But so does Gatlinburg. So does Branson. So does New Orleans. Doesn't mean the SEC wants/needs a team in those places.

Tulane is actually a great comparable for Vanderbilt. Not quite as good academically as Vandy, but New Orleans is one of the only cities with a better brand than Nashville.

Tulane is in the same conference as my school, and I'd just as soon not have them. I love visiting New Orleans, but they don't add to the bottom line.

Hard truth. Could just as easily schedule OOC to destination cities

(07-10-2020 02:07 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 01:50 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

I agree with most of what you say. Good points.

But as somebody who lived 3.5 years in Chicago (go, Cubs and DePaul) and who loves the Windy City (and who now lives in Nashville), ponder this:

The average college football fan (and, admittedly, I'm stereotyping) would rather see a game in Nashville and then hit Lower Broadway than ... freeze in Evanston and take the time to venture into the heart of Chicago.

Nashville/Vanderbilt is warmer and more logistically manageable (the campus and downtown are located within close proximity) than Chicago/Northwestern. And, there is with Nashville, shall we say, a "cultural dynamic" (college football, country music and cheap beer go together for many traveling fans) at play.

I work in the media and talk to lots of folks from out of town. They are enamored with Nashville. I even find it a bit puzzling.

As such, Vanderbilt's value is, in large part, its Music City location. The SEC loves having Vanderbilt for its fans to travel to Nashville.

For the record, and since you and I are Bearcat fans, I much prefer Cincinnati to Nashville on many levels (including the architecture, craft beer scene, zoo, art museum, Mt. Adams, chili, etc.). But the appeal of Nashville cannot be overstated. Nashville has a brand. By comparison, Charlotte, Jacksonville and the cities in Ohio (and I like them all, including Dayton) ... do not.

I completely agree that Nashville has a brand.

But so does Gatlinburg. So does Branson. So does New Orleans. Doesn't mean the SEC wants/needs a team in those places.

Tulane is actually a great comparable for Vanderbilt. Not quite as good academically as Vandy, but New Orleans is one of the only cities with a better brand than Nashville.

Tulane is in the same conference as my school, and I'd just as soon not have them. I love visiting New Orleans, but they don't add to the bottom line.

Hard truth. Could just as easily schedule OOC to destination cities

Not as easily. You’re relying on the other school to choose you over all suitors. Having them in your conference guarantees certainty.

(07-10-2020 01:50 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 04:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 02:53 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's been covered, but it should be noted there is a difference between Vanderbilt and Northwestern.

The latter has been investing consistently in their football product the last few decades while Vandy has not. Northwestern is consistently competitive and one of the more watched programs in the Big Ten despite not being a large state school while Vandy doesn't hit that mark either.

Actually, Vandy doesn't invest in much of anything sports-related. Even their proud baseball team didn't have adequate resources when Tim Corbin was hired. They also don't have a softball team, for example.

Now, that's not to say I don't value Vanderbilt or that I would rather not have a presence in Nashville. Nashville is a great town, but let's also not pretend the majority of the city is comprised of Vandy fans. As Bill Dazzle pointed out, the support for Vanderbilt was the same before the NFL showed up. If anything, the Titans probably cut into the Tennessee Volunteer fan base more than anyone else. The city has plenty of transplants from up North and the Midwest...one of the reasons the NHL has worked for them. It's an eclectic mix as far as Southern cities go...plenty of Bama fans can be found up there for one thing.

I would prefer that Vanderbilt stay in the conference, but they really should step aside in football if they have no desire to compete in that sport. It's the primary financial driver and they should be considerate of that. If they would prefer to be independent and be guaranteed a set number of games against SEC opponents every year then I would endorse that as well.

Of course, I wouldn't blame them for de-emphasizing football as it's a tough row to hoe and always has been for them. If they want their resources to go towards academic endeavors then that's more than appropriate. It's just a matter that as far as an athletic conference is concerned, the conference has to concern themselves with athletics.

I wouldn't be surprised if the closing of the SID office were indicative of a broader scaling back. After all, when Malcolm Turner was hired, he was considered a hot-shot candidate and he promised to reinvigorate Vandy athletics. About a year later, he was gone to "spend time with family" which is what people say when they have other reasons for moving on they would rather not discuss publicly. The timing of that move was also interesting because it came just a few weeks after news leaked that the SEC was going to get a big raise from ESPN.

Personally, I suspect that it was decided that Vanderbilt was not going to put a ton of money back into athletics. It may have even been decided that their SEC membership would be altered once the new deal kicked in. I doubt that ESPN wants to pay that much money for a product in Vanderbilt that's not going to drive serious viewership even in their home market much less nationally. I'm honing in on what will inevitably be Disney's focus on streaming product going forward which was likely a key piece of whatever deal they struck with the SEC.

And so...Turner moved on and he was replaced with a career Vanderbilt staffer who would no doubt be loyal to the mission regardless of what it was.

I may be reading too much into it and it's true that Vanderbilt likes to do things their own way, but a pattern has developed.

It's also worth noting that at an institutional level, Northwestern is more valuable to a P5 conference than Vanderbilt.

Northwestern has 70% more students (22k vs 13k), 70% more living alumni (230k vs 136k), and a 76% larger endowment (11.1 billion vs 6.3 billion).

Northwestern is more elite. It competes with the top-tier Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, etc. Vanderbilt's peers are the bottom-tier Ivies, Notre Dame, Rice, Case Western, etc. Still elite, but everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Brown.

And Nashville, while a great place to visit, is not Chicago. It's not Atlanta. It's closer in size to Jacksonville than to Charlotte. If Nashville were in Ohio, it would be the 4th largest metro area.

Not that this means much if they're investing in football. Notre Dame & TCU are very valuable programs. But just like ND, Vanderbilt has to do better than Northwestern at football to be just as valuable to an athletic conference.

I agree with most of what you say. Good points.

But as somebody who lived 3.5 years in Chicago (go, Cubs and DePaul) and who loves the Windy City (and who now lives in Nashville), ponder this:

The average college football fan (and, admittedly, I'm stereotyping) would rather see a game in Nashville and then hit Lower Broadway than ... freeze in Evanston and take the time to venture into the heart of Chicago.

Nashville/Vanderbilt is warmer and more logistically manageable (the campus and downtown are located within close proximity) than Chicago/Northwestern. And, there is with Nashville, shall we say, a "cultural dynamic" (college football, country music and cheap beer go together for many traveling fans) at play.

I work in the media and talk to lots of folks from out of town. They are enamored with Nashville. I even find it a bit puzzling.

As such, Vanderbilt's value is, in large part, its Music City location. The SEC loves having Vanderbilt for its fans to travel to Nashville.

For the record, and since you and I are Bearcat fans, I much prefer Cincinnati to Nashville on many levels (including the architecture, craft beer scene, zoo, art museum, Mt. Adams, chili, etc.). But the appeal of Nashville cannot be overstated. Nashville has a brand. By comparison, Charlotte, Jacksonville and the cities in Ohio (and I like them all, including Dayton) ... do not.

I completely agree that Nashville has a brand.

But so does Gatlinburg. So does Branson. So does New Orleans. Doesn't mean the SEC wants/needs a team in those places.

Tulane is actually a great comparable for Vanderbilt. Not quite as good academically as Vandy, but New Orleans is one of the only cities with a better brand than Nashville.

Tulane is in the same conference as my school, and I'd just as soon not have them. I love visiting New Orleans, but they don't add to the bottom line.

If I lived in, say, Omaha and my company was moving me to either NOLA or Nashville ... I'm taking New Orleans in a heartbeat. And I'm very pro-Nashville so it's nothing against my hometown. I just prefer the quirkiness, history and architecture of New Orleans.

Having said that, your noting that New Orleans has a "better brand" than Nashville is purely subjective. As a non-mainstream urbanite whose tastes, hobbies and lifestyle lend themselves to New Orleans more than Nashville, NOLA would be "better" for me than Nashville. But lots of college football fans are, essentially, the opposite of me and, for many of them, Nashville is "better" than New Orleans. Nashville suits their cultural tastes and lifestyle.

Now, for many Americans who are not college football fans (and I give you this), New Orleans would have the more likable brand than Nashville.

As to Tulane, I am very pleased to have them in the league. Great university in a fantastic city and with strong baseball. Tulane definitely brings some cache to the American.

(07-10-2020 03:11 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Not as easily. You’re relying on the other school to choose you over all suitors. Having them in your conference guarantees certainty.

Right. It's kind of like what's been said about the service academies. People wanted to play them, and they didn't mind visiting there. The whole experience is something unique to college athletics when visiting Annapolis or West Point. Try getting in touch with Navy now when their schedule is mostly spoken for. Take Tulane out of the AAC, or Rice out of CUSA, and it becomes that much more difficult to respectively schedule them when they were once counted among you.