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Sports reimagined
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.
07-07-2020 11:47 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.
07-07-2020 11:52 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 10:22 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Why is the workplace an inappropriate time for politics? If anything, I think it's one of the most appropriate places for it.

In fact I don't think I've ever been in a place that doesn't talk about politics, from minimum wage positions to field work to desk jobs. My coworkers and I (conservatives, moderates, progressives, managers, low-level employees) talk about relevant political issues at least a few times a week

Watercooler talk and politics is almost as intertwined as sports and politics, maybe even more so?

Politics is major part of life; it is literally the exchange of ideas on how we want society to function.

Talking about politics with your co-workers during your downtime is one thing, and I am not really a big fan of that, but staging protests or making large scale political statements during work hours is not appropriate at most workplaces. You are there to work, to perform the job functions that you are being paid to perform, not to gin up civil disobedience to further a political position.

I am not a fan of Unions, but that is a different rant, but based on this logic, you feel that politics should not be in the work place at all, so Unions should not be able to strike, or if your bosses are making you work extra hours uncompensated, you should not organize your fellow coworkers and say pay us or we will shut you down?
07-07-2020 11:53 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.
07-07-2020 11:56 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.
07-07-2020 12:04 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

Let's put this in a different light....this is similar to the treatment that my ancestors, and I am sure some of yours, the Irish and Italian's and other "lesser" European immigrants received when they immigrated to the US. Shut up, work, and live in the ghetto, and don't rock the boat. If they had not gone on strike, protested their treatment, and rocked the boat where would we be today? It was our families right to protest and express ourselves, it is these kids right to do the same.
07-07-2020 12:05 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Sports reimagined
Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.
07-07-2020 12:17 PM
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Maryland Monarch Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.

That sounds like a straw man argument to me. The severity of the sentence is most often proportionate to the severity of the crime, coupled with the record of the criminal. Two people committing the same crime could have different sentences, depending on the criminal record of each. A first-time offender will receive more leniency than a recalcitrant criminal. You would have to look at each case individually before you could validate your assertion.
07-07-2020 12:21 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I wouldn't boo them or boycott them if that was their choice.

Do you feel the same about the National Anthem being played before games?
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2020 12:23 PM by mturn017.)
07-07-2020 12:23 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:23 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I wouldn't boo them or boycott them if that was their choice.

Do you feel the same about the National Anthem being played before games?

I am not sure I understand your question?
07-07-2020 12:24 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.

Really? Where did you come up with that? What state or locality? Is the data normalized take into account other variables such as repeat offenses, public vs private representation, probation, parole? Honestly curious.
07-07-2020 12:25 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

Sure, if the guys came our with MAGA gear during warmups to express something bigger than football, who am I to judge. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop donating like all these others were threatening to do.
07-07-2020 12:30 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:18 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU, sports or academics, becomes a platform for left wing activism and Marxism, they'll never see another dollar from me.

Is BLM left wing activism to you? If so, you should've stopped donating and paying for tickets 4 years ago.
07-07-2020 12:30 PM
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Monarchist13 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:18 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU, sports or academics, becomes a platform for left wing activism and Marxism, they'll never see another dollar from me.

You’ve stated you rarely go to games, so how much would they really lose out on?
07-07-2020 12:32 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:30 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

Sure, if the guys came our with MAGA gear during warmups to express something bigger than football, who am I to judge. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop donating like all these others were threatening to do.

Let me be clear, while I don't support the individual protests, I am not going to stop donating because X player took a knee. I will stop donating when the school gets involved and paints "BLM" or some other left wing or Marxist slogan on helmets or the end zone.
07-07-2020 12:33 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:32 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:18 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU, sports or academics, becomes a platform for left wing activism and Marxism, they'll never see another dollar from me.

You’ve stated you rarely go to games, so how much would they really lose out on?

I usually go to 5-6 basketball games and 1-2 football games. Tend need 3 tickets amd to drop about $80 in the Village on food and alcohol, another $50 or so in the bookstore and another $20-$30 in concessions. I'm sure they can afford to lose me individually, but 50% of the fan base would be suicide.
07-07-2020 12:37 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:21 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.

That sounds like a straw man argument to me. The severity of the sentence is most often proportionate to the severity of the crime, coupled with the record of the criminal. Two people committing the same crime could have different sentences, depending on the criminal record of each. A first-time offender will receive more leniency than a recalcitrant criminal. You would have to look at each case individually before you could validate your assertion.

I hardly see how bringing up disproportionate sentencing based on race to argue that equal protection under the law does not exist in practice can be seen as a straw man argument.

To your other point. Yes, looking at any two people sentenced for the same crime you will have different outcomes for various reasons. Looking at thousands of cases in aggregate though, in a study that accounts for criminal history, completed by the United States Sentencing Commision that found that black males receive a sentence 19% longer than their similarly positioned white counterparts? That seems pretty conclusive.

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-r...sentencing
07-07-2020 12:38 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I think the more accurate comparison would be "black lives matter" (the cause, not necessarily the group as you can support the former while not the latter) vs. "support the troops." They're apolitical statements on the surface that can and do function as political statements as well, depending on the context. "Make America Great Again" is the long-established slogan for Trump's presidential campaigns. It's sorta hard for that not to be political.
07-07-2020 12:38 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:33 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:30 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

Sure, if the guys came our with MAGA gear during warmups to express something bigger than football, who am I to judge. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop donating like all these others were threatening to do.

Let me be clear, while I don't support the individual protests, I am not going to stop donating because X player took a knee. I will stop donating when the school gets involved and paints "BLM" or some other left wing or Marxist slogan on helmets or the end zone.

But you are fine if they wear BLM shirts during warmups, do a circle of unity, and send our rainbow fireworks?

Does anyone actually think ODU is going to paint BLM in the endzone?
07-07-2020 12:40 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:24 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:23 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I wouldn't boo them or boycott them if that was their choice.

Do you feel the same about the National Anthem being played before games?

I am not sure I understand your question?

Do you oppose the National Anthem being played before football games?
07-07-2020 12:41 PM
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