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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Sports reimagined
Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.
07-07-2020 11:23 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.
07-07-2020 11:31 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 07:44 AM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  
(07-06-2020 06:53 PM)blueandsilver Wrote:  I sure hope that things can return to support what I really enjoy about ODU Football. After getting battered with everything all week -- work, news, politics -- I enjoy a Saturday afternoon with others who want to watch and cheer the Monarchs on and having all the distractions disappear for a short while.

I have had season tickets and donated since football started -- I'm all set and whatever direction the wind blows I'll deal with it (delay start of season, restrict attendance, TV only, etc.).

However, if it devolves into a bunch of political statements and drama being played in addition to the sport, I'm out and probably not coming back. Lot's of options of where to spend my time, support, and $$$. If the garbage that is being played out all week long works itself into football Saturday's, I'll quietly step aside and let those participants sort it out. I've always liked Australian Football.

So much to be grateful for in this country and to see some of the ignorance being bantered about by a bunch of cowards who have sacrificed nothing for the freedoms they enjoy, and take for granted, is really disgusting. It has no place in college or professional sports.

I wholeheartedly agree. If sports (Pro and NCAA) become political - they will lose a huge chunk of their fan base and it will destroy the product. Ratings plummeted for the NFL during the Kap/Kneel debacle. It will only get worse if they continue in this direction. I'm not looking for political expressions / pronouncements during sporting events. If that's what they devolve to - I'm out. Been following / supporting Old Dominion since 1986. Not real happy with the direction they are going as a University. Will be very unhappy if they politicize their sports programs. Hoping for the best on both accounts.

I doubt the University will be politicizing the athletics program. But you would have the University curtail each individual athletes Constitutional right to freedom of speech and expression? That's like telling you that you can come to the game but you have to sit down all the time becasue someone else might get pissed if you stand up and cheer.
07-07-2020 11:35 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.
07-07-2020 11:43 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 10:29 AM)monarx Wrote:  [quote='smudge12' pid='16893274' dateline='1594135379']
Why is the workplace an inappropriate time for politics? If anything, I think it's one of the most appropriate places for it.

In fact I don't think I've ever been in a place that doesn't talk about politics, from minimum wage positions to field work to desk jobs. My coworkers and I (conservatives, moderates, progressives, managers, low-level employees) talk about relevant political issues at least a few times a week

Watercooler talk and politics is almost as intertwined as sports and politics, maybe even more so?

Politics is major part of life; it is literally the exchange of ideas on how we want society to function.

In such a polarized time, its not good business to alienate 50% of your client base. I wouldnt want people on my team wearing political themed T-shirts from any perspective while interacting with the public on behalf of the company. What they do on their own time, is their own business. But when in the office (or on the field) they represent the team.
[/qu

The players (our players) already do this, they wear messages on their shoes, t shirts during warm-ups and under their uniforms, the circle of unity. You may disagree with their message, but it is their right to say it and express it. And I highly doubt ODU would lose 50% of their fans over an athlete or even a group of athletes expressing their constitutionally protected rights.
07-07-2020 11:47 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.
07-07-2020 11:47 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.
07-07-2020 11:52 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 10:22 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Why is the workplace an inappropriate time for politics? If anything, I think it's one of the most appropriate places for it.

In fact I don't think I've ever been in a place that doesn't talk about politics, from minimum wage positions to field work to desk jobs. My coworkers and I (conservatives, moderates, progressives, managers, low-level employees) talk about relevant political issues at least a few times a week

Watercooler talk and politics is almost as intertwined as sports and politics, maybe even more so?

Politics is major part of life; it is literally the exchange of ideas on how we want society to function.

Talking about politics with your co-workers during your downtime is one thing, and I am not really a big fan of that, but staging protests or making large scale political statements during work hours is not appropriate at most workplaces. You are there to work, to perform the job functions that you are being paid to perform, not to gin up civil disobedience to further a political position.

I am not a fan of Unions, but that is a different rant, but based on this logic, you feel that politics should not be in the work place at all, so Unions should not be able to strike, or if your bosses are making you work extra hours uncompensated, you should not organize your fellow coworkers and say pay us or we will shut you down?
07-07-2020 11:53 AM
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smudge12 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

04-clap204-clap204-clap2
07-07-2020 11:53 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.
07-07-2020 11:56 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:31 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It isn't a civil rights issue. Nobody's rights are being violated. Guarantee of equal rights doesn't mean the results will yield equal outcomes. I don't hate Asians because they do better than me. Until a culture of personal responsibility is fostered, this will never end. So yeah, while you are in uniform representing the school, shut up and play football. You want to take to activism in your personal time? Have at it. Volunteer at the local Boys and Girls club and make a difference. You'll get a nice article written about you and garner respect. Disrespecting the flag is never going to be seen a respectful to many.

Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.
07-07-2020 12:04 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Since it seems we're talking about BLM and anthem kneeling rather than being forced to wear a mask at the stadium I'll add this: what does BLM and at least 50% of pretty much every Div I roster have in common? Young black men. It's a concern of theirs and rightfully so, imo. When you say "shut up and play football" that's pretty much the response they've received from America for over a century. That their value is tied to white people's entertainment, be it sports or music or whatever else. Their job prospects outside of athletics are going to be worse then their male counterparts when they graduate based strictly on the color of their skin. Time to see this as a civil rights issue rather than a political one.

Let's put this in a different light....this is similar to the treatment that my ancestors, and I am sure some of yours, the Irish and Italian's and other "lesser" European immigrants received when they immigrated to the US. Shut up, work, and live in the ghetto, and don't rock the boat. If they had not gone on strike, protested their treatment, and rocked the boat where would we be today? It was our families right to protest and express ourselves, it is these kids right to do the same.
07-07-2020 12:05 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Sports reimagined
Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.
07-07-2020 12:17 PM
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Maryland Monarch Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.

That sounds like a straw man argument to me. The severity of the sentence is most often proportionate to the severity of the crime, coupled with the record of the criminal. Two people committing the same crime could have different sentences, depending on the criminal record of each. A first-time offender will receive more leniency than a recalcitrant criminal. You would have to look at each case individually before you could validate your assertion.
07-07-2020 12:21 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I wouldn't boo them or boycott them if that was their choice.

Do you feel the same about the National Anthem being played before games?
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2020 12:23 PM by mturn017.)
07-07-2020 12:23 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:23 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

I wouldn't boo them or boycott them if that was their choice.

Do you feel the same about the National Anthem being played before games?

I am not sure I understand your question?
07-07-2020 12:24 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:52 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-07-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Not true. You can guarantee rights on paper but if they are not in practice then it's not really being guaranteed is it? It's observable in policing, courtrooms, even school discipline. And if a black student graduating from ODU is less employable due to the color of his skin than a white person then someone somewhere along the line has violated the Civil Rights Act? Right? Until there is equal opportunity this will never end. You want to take you entertainment dollars elsewhere. Have at it. A welcoming community far exceeds your donations in terms of program value.

There is zero evidence of anything you are asserting. All talking points. There is equal opportunity.

There's plenty of evidence and you know this.

There is evidence of unequal outcomes, not unequal opportunity. Tends to have more to do with the family structure than the skin color. Whites coming from broken homes with no father figure don't do so great either.

Uh huh. So that explains why black people receive longer jail sentences for the same crimes as whites.

Really? Where did you come up with that? What state or locality? Is the data normalized take into account other variables such as repeat offenses, public vs private representation, probation, parole? Honestly curious.
07-07-2020 12:25 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would everyone involved in this conversation feel the same if the team came out wearing MAGA gear instead of BLM gear. I would. I am opposed to all of it on the playing field, and I support all of it off the field.

Sure, if the guys came our with MAGA gear during warmups to express something bigger than football, who am I to judge. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop donating like all these others were threatening to do.
07-07-2020 12:30 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:18 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU, sports or academics, becomes a platform for left wing activism and Marxism, they'll never see another dollar from me.

Is BLM left wing activism to you? If so, you should've stopped donating and paying for tickets 4 years ago.
07-07-2020 12:30 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Sports reimagined
(07-07-2020 11:18 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU, sports or academics, becomes a platform for left wing activism and Marxism, they'll never see another dollar from me.

You’ve stated you rarely go to games, so how much would they really lose out on?
07-07-2020 12:32 PM
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