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Roberts comes back for school choice
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Roberts comes back for school choice
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.



“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."
06-30-2020 01:58 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
IMO he's still a liberal out in the open for all to see. Thanks GWB.

03-banghead

Nice to see that he will sometimes do the right thing, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that when a big issue comes before the court he will side with the libs - again.
06-30-2020 02:12 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.
06-30-2020 02:42 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?
06-30-2020 02:48 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
Abortions pretty much a done deal, unfortunately, & unless we get a second Great Awakening or people start following actual science & data, it's here to stay. The only question w/ Roberts ruling yesterday is why did he change his mind?
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 03:44 PM by Bronco'14.)
06-30-2020 03:42 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 02:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?

What changed is that the Supreme Court issued a precedent in the Texas case.

The Chief Justice is bound by the Supreme Court's precedent, not by Judge Roberts' personal opinions about what the precedent should have been.
06-30-2020 03:59 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 02:12 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  IMO he's still a liberal out in the open for all to see. Thanks GWB.

03-banghead

Nice to see that he will sometimes do the right thing, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that when a big issue comes before the court he will side with the libs - again.

Or he votes based on his interpretation of the law...like he’s supposed to
06-30-2020 07:29 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 02:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?


Roberts is trying to get the Supreme Court balance. That was Kennedy's job. We do not want any far left or far right laws to dictate the laws of the land. They need balance. That is why we need neutral judges who are not mired by politics on both sides.
06-30-2020 07:30 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

IMO his courts only real transgression was the ACA tax ruling.
06-30-2020 07:43 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 07:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Roberts is trying to get the Supreme Court balance. That was Kennedy's job. We do not want any far left or far right laws to dictate the laws of the land. They need balance. That is why we need neutral judges who are not mired by politics on both sides.

David, that ship sailed long, long, long ago. I truly doubt that if you did a national search you could even find two handfuls of judges that are truly 'neutral.' Then, you'd have to figure out if they were competent.

Surely David, you have heard of FDR trying to pack the court, right? That was in 1937. He wanted to expand the Supreme Court and pack it with judges that would be favorable in New Deal cases.
06-30-2020 08:02 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 07:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?


Roberts is trying to get the Supreme Court balance. That was Kennedy's job. We do not want any far left or far right laws to dictate the laws of the land. They need balance. That is why we need neutral judges who are not mired by politics on both sides.

It's not a Supreme Court Justice's job to "get balance". Their job is to interpret the law in relation to the Constitution.

"Is the case presented to the court constitutional?"

That's it. No more, no less. It's too bad the left wing activists on the court have **** all over this belief for decades.
06-30-2020 08:32 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.



“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."

This is a Trojan Horse ruling in line with the 1000 Points of Light under H.W. Bush. Churches that accepted the federal money for ministry with the homeless and disadvantaged found out later that their social stances on moral matters were limited by the guidelines of the Federal Government.

If Private Schools accept public funding then they will eventually have to comply with much of the curricula accepted by the government from the NEA.

Unless destitute I would strongly urge all private schools to get by on their own without government money. Take a nickel from Uncle Sam and your polity is owned by the Government.

Roberts knows this explicitly. He's still doing the liberal bidding.

And for the record this is precisely how churches lost their independent voices in Europe. Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 11:35 PM by JRsec.)
06-30-2020 11:32 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 11:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.



“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."

This is a Trojan Horse ruling in line with the 1000 Points of Light under H.W. Bush. Churches that accepted the federal money for ministry with the homeless and disadvantaged found out later that their social stances on moral matters were limited by the guidelines of the Federal Government.

If Private Schools accept public funding then they will eventually have to comply with much of the curricula accepted by the government from the NEA.

Unless destitute I would strongly urge all private schools to get by on their own without government money. Take a nickel from Uncle Sam and your polity is owned by the Government.

Roberts knows this explicitly. He's still doing the liberal bidding.

And for the record this is precisely how churches lost their independent voices in Europe. Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47d1e74e97a2190780fd...=giphy.gif]
06-30-2020 11:47 PM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 11:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.


“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."

This is a Trojan Horse ruling in line with the 1000 Points of Light under H.W. Bush. Churches that accepted the federal money for ministry with the homeless and disadvantaged found out later that their social stances on moral matters were limited by the guidelines of the Federal Government.

If Private Schools accept public funding then they will eventually have to comply with much of the curricula accepted by the government from the NEA.

Unless destitute I would strongly urge all private schools to get by on their own without government money. Take a nickel from Uncle Sam and your polity is owned by the Government.

Roberts knows this explicitly. He's still doing the liberal bidding.

And for the record this is precisely how churches lost their independent voices in Europe. Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.

Okay, I get that and agree private schools should be wary of accepting govt funding, but my understanding of these tax-scholarship programs is that the money doesn't actually come from the government, it comes from the individual (or corporate) taxpayer redirecting money that would have been taxes, but is not instead to go to the school(s) and thus to the students who wish to have freedom of choice. They are private funds, that have to follow the rules mandated by state laws, but state laws mandate how private businesses and non-profits should run/be treated without that being controlling them as you suggest in this instance. That's my current take on these tax-scholarship programs, which I think are a very good and useful thing, as everybody benefits: the students, the schools and the taxpayers.
07-01-2020 12:21 AM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(07-01-2020 12:21 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 11:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.


“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."

This is a Trojan Horse ruling in line with the 1000 Points of Light under H.W. Bush. Churches that accepted the federal money for ministry with the homeless and disadvantaged found out later that their social stances on moral matters were limited by the guidelines of the Federal Government.

If Private Schools accept public funding then they will eventually have to comply with much of the curricula accepted by the government from the NEA.

Unless destitute I would strongly urge all private schools to get by on their own without government money. Take a nickel from Uncle Sam and your polity is owned by the Government.

Roberts knows this explicitly. He's still doing the liberal bidding.

And for the record this is precisely how churches lost their independent voices in Europe. Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.

Okay, I get that and agree private schools should be wary of accepting govt funding, but my understanding of these tax-scholarship programs is that the money doesn't actually come from the government, it comes from the individual (or corporate) taxpayer redirecting money that would have been taxes, but is not instead to go to the school(s) and thus to the students who wish to have freedom of choice. They are private funds, that have to follow the rules mandated by state laws, but state laws mandate how private businesses and non-profits should run/be treated without that being controlling them as you suggest in this instance. That's my current take on these tax-scholarship programs, which I think are a very good and useful thing, as everybody benefits: the students, the schools and the taxpayers.

Whenever the Federal Government muddies the water with anything coming from taxpayers they are standing there in hip waders and you are standing knee deep in the muck with your Suit on. They walk away clean and interpret the mud as they wish in their courts. You walk away soiled no matter what you thought was happening.

Is there anything anyone else needs to know about dealing with the government? There is a long history gong back to legislation in 1956 by LBJ that tied tax exemption to silence in the pulpit about moral issues not specifically covered in the Bible and about politics in general. The rest has been a history of how the moral voice of the American Church has been silenced. The Private school, secular or parochial, now represents the only opposing voice to the morality of the Corporate Left espoused by the NEA. Do we really want their voices silenced as well? If there is doubt it will be decided in courts where the judges have been appointed or selected by the government. Is that a square deal?
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 12:32 AM by JRsec.)
07-01-2020 12:30 AM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(07-01-2020 12:30 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 12:21 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Okay, I get that and agree private schools should be wary of accepting govt funding, but my understanding of these tax-scholarship programs is that the money doesn't actually come from the government, it comes from the individual (or corporate) taxpayer redirecting money that would have been taxes, but is not instead to go to the school(s) and thus to the students who wish to have freedom of choice. They are private funds, that have to follow the rules mandated by state laws, but state laws mandate how private businesses and non-profits should run/be treated without that being controlling them as you suggest in this instance. That's my current take on these tax-scholarship programs, which I think are a very good and useful thing, as everybody benefits: the students, the schools and the taxpayers.

Whenever the Federal Government muddies the water with anything coming from taxpayers they are standing there in hip waders and you are standing knee deep in the muck with your Suit on. They walk away clean and interpret the mud as they wish in their courts. You walk away soiled no matter what you thought was happening.

Is there anything anyone else needs to know about dealing with the government? There is a long history gong back to legislation in 1956 by LBJ that tied tax exemption to silence in the pulpit about moral issues not specifically covered in the Bible and about politics in general. The rest has been a history of how the moral voice of the American Church has been silenced. The Private school, secular or parochial, now represents the only opposing voice to the morality of the Corporate Left espoused by the NEA. Do we really want their voices silenced as well? If there is doubt it will be decided in courts where the judges have been appointed or selected by the government. Is that a square deal?

Hey, you're preaching to the choir here; I didn't thuink this was govt funds. they were maybe almost govt funds, so I didn't thunk they'd qualify. But muddy water stains all, so your point is taken. thanks!
07-01-2020 01:02 AM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(07-01-2020 12:21 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 11:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme...us-schools

"In the 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court essentially backed a Montana tax-credit scholarship program that gave residents up to a $150 credit for donating to private scholarship organizations, helping students pay for their choice of private schools. The state's revenue department made a rule banning those tax-credit scholarships from going to religious schools before the state's supreme court later struck down the entire program.


“A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the court's opinion...."

This is a Trojan Horse ruling in line with the 1000 Points of Light under H.W. Bush. Churches that accepted the federal money for ministry with the homeless and disadvantaged found out later that their social stances on moral matters were limited by the guidelines of the Federal Government.

If Private Schools accept public funding then they will eventually have to comply with much of the curricula accepted by the government from the NEA.

Unless destitute I would strongly urge all private schools to get by on their own without government money. Take a nickel from Uncle Sam and your polity is owned by the Government.

Roberts knows this explicitly. He's still doing the liberal bidding.

And for the record this is precisely how churches lost their independent voices in Europe. Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.

Okay, I get that and agree private schools should be wary of accepting govt funding, but my understanding of these tax-scholarship programs is that the money doesn't actually come from the government, it comes from the individual (or corporate) taxpayer redirecting money that would have been taxes, but is not instead to go to the school(s) and thus to the students who wish to have freedom of choice. They are private funds, that have to follow the rules mandated by state laws, but state laws mandate how private businesses and non-profits should run/be treated without that being controlling them as you suggest in this instance. That's my current take on these tax-scholarship programs, which I think are a very good and useful thing, as everybody benefits: the students, the schools and the taxpayers.

Georgia has special needs scholarships which can be up to $7,000 per student. Its created a wealth of special needs schools that can meet many of the varied needs of special needs students. A lot of people wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. Its been a very good thing. Students benefit and the local schools benefit in not having to deal with some students they are poorly equipped for. Parents also benefit as they don't have the constant phone calls and battles with the public schools.
07-01-2020 09:20 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 03:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?

What changed is that the Supreme Court issued a precedent in the Texas case.

The Chief Justice is bound by the Supreme Court's precedent, not by Judge Roberts' personal opinions about what the precedent should have been.

This, and he even said as much.
07-01-2020 09:57 AM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(07-01-2020 09:57 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 03:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Roberts is making decisions based on the law and precedent. Anyone who read the Texas precedent knew how Roberts would vote on the Louisiana abortion case.

And anyone who reads the First Amendment can plainly see how this school choice case should be ruled.

Roberts has been a very good Chief Justice as America has become more divided.

In the Texas case a few years ago Roberts ruled exactly the opposite that he ruled this time around. The two states laws were almost identical. What changed? (other than Roberts mind?) When was he correct, the first time or this time?

You want to talk about precedent?

What changed is that the Supreme Court issued a precedent in the Texas case.

The Chief Justice is bound by the Supreme Court's precedent, not by Judge Roberts' personal opinions about what the precedent should have been.

This, and he even said as much.

Which is why we need more Scalias. If progressive judges ignore all precedents and conservatives do, we move constantly to a more progressive and totalitarian state.
Roberts was a great choice in 2000. A bad judge for 2020.
07-01-2020 10:05 AM
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RE: Roberts comes back for school choice
(06-30-2020 11:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Take state funds as historical sites and you accept state polity over your teachings.

Which is, of course, a direct violation of, "Separation of church and state."
07-01-2020 10:07 AM
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