(07-03-2020 05:11 PM)pantone1935 Wrote:  Big Red, please don't get banned as I need your MBB info.

GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, I didn't even realize I was trying (to piss or get banned).

But apparently I was.

If so, how can I argue against such forces?

I suppose, the only thing I'd ask is for an explanation of how I went so far off the rails. Then again, I'm not sure I deserve such a courtesy after my behavior.

I guess I'll just have to self-reflect.

(07-02-2020 09:12 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:17 PM)Huckin Fuskie Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 11:06 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 10:39 AM)Huckin Fuskie Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 09:46 AM)Big Red Wrote:  I did and I still wasn't able to figure out the source.

And that's not how this works. You don't claim something and then go tell other's to look it up.

You clearly know the source, but for some reason, you don't want to share it.

I put the first sentence into Google and got the source as the third result (as that sentence appeared in bold face on the search page results. It took three seconds. I'm embarrassed for you.

You telling others how things work on this board is not how this works. I didn't "claim something." I posted a piece from a scholarly article that any grownup would have read without wondering if The Deep State wrote it.

And how is this hugely relevant to the final point -- that large construction projects often bring in a large influx of outside workers (and the service people who then support them), who stay in the area? I gave one quick example to mollify someone who said that this FACT is out of touch with reality.

I "clearly" don't want to share the source? How could I hide it even if I didn't want you to see it -- it only takes three seconds to Google. I could post the link now, but I get to annoy a Karen by not doing it.

You are hoping to show that my source of information is Deep State, and therefore, my point is false, and that DeKalb won't experience an influx of new residents/workerswon't due to 3-5 large building projects -- and that means no locales with large building projects ever experience an influx of workers to do the work.

What is your point? Where are YOUR facts?

Ultimately though, it's clear that you are being defensive and evasive and clearly don't want people here to know the source to your article. I have no idea why since you seem to be so enthralled by the issue and how it is presented in this article.

It is odd that, when asked for a link to the source, you've gotten so bent out of shape and defensive, though.

Speaks volumes.

Let's assume my source doesn't exist. I wrote the report.

Do you believe that the 3-5 companies building large projects in DeKalb can do so without a significant import of laborers?

THAT'S the point of the discussion.

And, the grownups here don't need to see the source of an article that discusses post-Katrina labor hiring to make their determinations about whether or not my original proposition is utter fantasy, as you or your buddy suggested.

Most people here do, however, like seeing you toyed with because you can't do a simple Google search and it's driving you crazy. The source won't help you at all, but you're like a puppy with a stuffed toy, going crazy over it, because you've found a re herring to distract from the fact that you don't believe what you originally posted.

Truth speaks volumes. A link to an internet article doesn't.

Answer the question. Without my source. Because I'm asking you about your beliefs/knowledge on this subject. Stop changing the subject to, "Mommy, he won't give me a link!" and answer the question.

Do you believe these 3-5 large construction projects can all be completed with local (DeKalb) labor, or will be completed using just DeKalb-area labor, and that all of these laborers will earn local scale and leave when the projects are done?

Please, speak volumes to us.

Fine. You want to hide the source.

No one cares anymore.

Peace.

This whole back and forth was like the home run argument in Major League. “Who gives a ****, it’s gone”. The project is coming and there are already hundreds of workers there. They are spending money at hotels and restaurants already. More projects in the works and The candy company is well into the project. Positive news either way.

(07-03-2020 01:49 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 12:45 PM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  Wow. This is one of the fiercest convos I've seen on here. Moreso than any fire Carey/Carey would have threads.

Anyway. Go Huskies.

OMG! Oh, oh! Now you did it! You had to mention Carey! Now, here comes jb’94 in 5.....4.....3.....2......

Shhh....

All I know is that if there’s no football this year this thread will be #1 for 2020.

Unless of course Stay Cool puts the XXX on it.
Love ya SC....don’t ever change.

I did the XXX for DF just to be clear.

(07-03-2020 07:01 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 01:49 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 12:45 PM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  Wow. This is one of the fiercest convos I've seen on here. Moreso than any fire Carey/Carey would have threads.

Anyway. Go Huskies.

OMG! Oh, oh! Now you did it! You had to mention Carey! Now, here comes jb’94 in 5.....4.....3.....2......

Shhh....

All I know is that if there’s no football this year this thread will be #1 for 2020.

Unless of course Stay Cool puts the XXX on it.
Love ya SC....don’t ever change.

I did the XXX for DF just to be clear.

No offense taken, we as mods aren't perfect and I'm always open to feedback guys. Only 1 PM away

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(07-03-2020 02:20 PM)golf4501 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 09:03 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A Facebook datacenter will do a few things:
- Consume an enormous amount of electricity
- Lend permanent job security to a few local HVAC technicians
- Create a small pool of 50-150 well paid jobs
- Wipe out your local supply of enterprise focused geeks


I wouldn't look for "Facebook Stadium". A much better idea is to seek FB investment in the NIU CS Department. Facebook will be chronically short of local talent to fill their positions and NIU won't be teaching actual real world enterprise technology because no CS department outside of a tiny handful of the most elite do. That's part ignorance, part faculty stagnation, part due to the rapid pace of change in the field, and part due to the cost in keeping the curriculum up to date with constantly churning technology.

How does the Facebook Applied Computer Sciences Lab sound instead?

That's not exactly true. There has been a change in direction in the CSCI department to teach more real world business technology by partnering with companies and doing actual projects. Covid-19 probably stopped some of the Spring initiatives, but I know it's on the docket as the head of the department was a grad student classmate, and a personal friend.

I haven't talked to him about what the Facebook Data Center means to the department, but I'm sure he is in tune and already has proposals started.

I'm telling you CS departments don't teach real world enterprise technology. They just don't. http://www.cs.niu.edu/courses/Spring2020.pdf

The only Linux-y thing in the entire CS department is CSCI 330: UNIX Systems and Networks. Description: "UNIX system usage and commands. Shell script programming. Network programming concepts and protocols. System call level and basic network programming in C++. Extensive laboratory work."

So you learn a near-dead language (C++). They just say UNIX so who knows what the hell it is. I've seen no shortage of places still teaching UNIX on OpenSolaris. You find me any of the following in the CS department at NIU and get back to me:
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux / Debian Stable
- MySQL / MariaDB / Postgres
- Snort / Wireshark
- Nagios / OpenNMS / ZenOSS / Cacti
- ZFS
- VMware / Docker / KVM
- Chef / Puppet / SaltStack / Ansible
- Cisco Routing (CCNA certification or equivalent)
- ElasticSearch / Solr
- Kubernetes
- DevOps / Infrastructure As Code / Just about everything Hashicorp makes


This is just a drop in the bucket. How much you want to bet NIU CS grads never touch Cisco routing equipment in their degree path? At the very least Cisco doesn't appear in any course descriptions (you can search on the NIU site). What will they always be asked to use in an enterprise environment like the Facebook datacenter? Cisco routers.


I'm not dunking on NIU here. Most CS departments are simply not connected to actual reality when it comes to graduating developers, anything on the enterprise side, and anything on the networking side.

No offense taken, we as mods aren't perfect and I'm always open to feedback guys. Only 1 PM away
[/quote]
My two cents, I want to say thanks to Stay Cool for the job you have done -- and I hope -- will continue to do.

(07-03-2020 06:04 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 05:11 PM)pantone1935 Wrote:  Big Red, please don't get banned as I need your MBB info.

GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, I didn't even realize I was trying (to piss or get banned).

But apparently I was.

If so, how can I argue against such forces?

I suppose, the only thing I'd ask is for an explanation of how I went so far off the rails. Then again, I'm not sure I deserve such a courtesy after my behavior.

I guess I'll just have to self-reflect.

Big Red. Your men's basketball info is legendary. Thank you.

(07-03-2020 07:52 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 02:20 PM)golf4501 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 09:03 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  A Facebook datacenter will do a few things:
- Consume an enormous amount of electricity
- Lend permanent job security to a few local HVAC technicians
- Create a small pool of 50-150 well paid jobs
- Wipe out your local supply of enterprise focused geeks


I wouldn't look for "Facebook Stadium". A much better idea is to seek FB investment in the NIU CS Department. Facebook will be chronically short of local talent to fill their positions and NIU won't be teaching actual real world enterprise technology because no CS department outside of a tiny handful of the most elite do. That's part ignorance, part faculty stagnation, part due to the rapid pace of change in the field, and part due to the cost in keeping the curriculum up to date with constantly churning technology.

How does the Facebook Applied Computer Sciences Lab sound instead?

That's not exactly true. There has been a change in direction in the CSCI department to teach more real world business technology by partnering with companies and doing actual projects. Covid-19 probably stopped some of the Spring initiatives, but I know it's on the docket as the head of the department was a grad student classmate, and a personal friend.

I haven't talked to him about what the Facebook Data Center means to the department, but I'm sure he is in tune and already has proposals started.

I'm telling you CS departments don't teach real world enterprise technology. They just don't. http://www.cs.niu.edu/courses/Spring2020.pdf

The only Linux-y thing in the entire CS department is CSCI 330: UNIX Systems and Networks. Description: "UNIX system usage and commands. Shell script programming. Network programming concepts and protocols. System call level and basic network programming in C++. Extensive laboratory work."

So you learn a near-dead language (C++). They just say UNIX so who knows what the hell it is. I've seen no shortage of places still teaching UNIX on OpenSolaris. You find me any of the following in the CS department at NIU and get back to me:
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux / Debian Stable
- MySQL / MariaDB / Postgres
- Snort / Wireshark
- Nagios / OpenNMS / ZenOSS / Cacti
- ZFS
- VMware / Docker / KVM
- Chef / Puppet / SaltStack / Ansible
- Cisco Routing (CCNA certification or equivalent)
- ElasticSearch / Solr
- Kubernetes
- DevOps / Infrastructure As Code / Just about everything Hashicorp makes


This is just a drop in the bucket. How much you want to bet NIU CS grads never touch Cisco routing equipment in their degree path? At the very least Cisco doesn't appear in any course descriptions (you can search on the NIU site). What will they always be asked to use in an enterprise environment like the Facebook datacenter? Cisco routers.


I'm not dunking on NIU here. Most CS departments are simply not connected to actual reality when it comes to graduating developers, anything on the enterprise side, and anything on the networking side.

You're not wrong. I started as a CS major. Back in 99 the focus was on Unix, so lot's of Assembler, COBOL FORTRAN etc. There was one OO class and that was C, not C++. Students were like WTF, why are we only learning C and not the rest and the answer was because COBOL is still super prevalent in the workplace on mainframes. I guess to an extent, but there was no shift to web based programming/development skills. My Brother-in-law has his CS degree from NIU and he did some hiring a year or two ago, and you're right, students can write code from scratch, but they don't teach how to work as a team, how to manage code bases, tech debt, updating documentation etc. There's nothing on Android/iOS development, how to develop a UI, interpret requirements.

(07-04-2020 09:15 AM)UnknownScout Wrote:  You're not wrong. I started as a CS major. Back in 99 the focus was on Unix, so lot's of Assembler, COBOL FORTRAN etc. There was one OO class and that was C, not C++. Students were like WTF, why are we only learning C and not the rest and the answer was because COBOL is still super prevalent in the workplace on mainframes. I guess to an extent, but there was no shift to web based programming/development skills. My Brother-in-law has his CS degree from NIU and he did some hiring a year or two ago, and you're right, students can write code from scratch, but they don't teach how to work as a team, how to manage code bases, tech debt, updating documentation etc. There's nothing on Android/iOS development, how to develop a UI, interpret requirements.

You can still get taught COBOL to this day in a BS of CS degree path. Typically by Universities looking to train their own future workers since a lot of bigger .edus have COBOL based mainframes to handle enrollment throughout their state .edu system.

NIU does teach Android development per their Spring 2020 listing. But they don't teach iOS development and IMO that's probably a good thing. Because of the way Apple does things, you're either all in our all out. If you want to develop an iOS app for iPhone and iPad that means you must purchase first, before you do anything:
- Recent iPhone
- Recent iPad
- Mac OS X desktop machine
- Apple iOS developer license ($100-$200/yr IIRC?)

That's ridiculous for a college student. If they want to line Apple's profit margins let them do it on their own after school. When I was coming through CS we'd call that kind of behavior "a good candidate for an anti-trust lawsuit". Microsoft got trust busted for way less.

(07-04-2020 10:51 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 09:15 AM)UnknownScout Wrote:  You're not wrong. I started as a CS major. Back in 99 the focus was on Unix, so lot's of Assembler, COBOL FORTRAN etc. There was one OO class and that was C, not C++. Students were like WTF, why are we only learning C and not the rest and the answer was because COBOL is still super prevalent in the workplace on mainframes. I guess to an extent, but there was no shift to web based programming/development skills. My Brother-in-law has his CS degree from NIU and he did some hiring a year or two ago, and you're right, students can write code from scratch, but they don't teach how to work as a team, how to manage code bases, tech debt, updating documentation etc. There's nothing on Android/iOS development, how to develop a UI, interpret requirements.

You can still get taught COBOL to this day in a BS of CS degree path. Typically by Universities looking to train their own future workers since a lot of bigger .edus have COBOL based mainframes to handle enrollment throughout their state .edu system.

NIU does teach Android development per their Spring 2020 listing. But they don't teach iOS development and IMO that's probably a good thing. Because of the way Apple does things, you're either all in our all out. If you want to develop an iOS app for iPhone and iPad that means you must purchase first, before you do anything:
- Recent iPhone
- Recent iPad
- Mac OS X desktop machine
- Apple iOS developer license ($100-$200/yr IIRC?)

That's ridiculous for a college student. If they want to line Apple's profit margins let them do it on their own after school. When I was coming through CS we'd call that kind of behavior "a good candidate for an anti-trust lawsuit". Microsoft got trust busted for way less.

You forgot the craziness of Safari along with IOS and Mac O/S. We deal with it at work, and I can't count the amount of times we have had issues. Chrome is so much easier to work with and I'm not even getting into the release crap we deal with on integration to other systems and vendors.

As far as your original point goes, NIU does do some Linux and mysql teaching per my friends in the department. Must have not offered those in the Spring 2020 (link you posted).

I personal learned Unix in my graduate program. I'm ancient, and it was before the consortium, so it was Berkley at that point. I started working at Bell Labs, so quickly moved to System V at the start of my career.

The program is changing, and there will be emphasis on team-based, development projects moving forward.

There is zero reason to not have CS students contribute to open source as a public good and demonstration of competency and teamwork in a modern development environment. It should be part of the degree path and required. You can add that to your résumé to boot.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using CSNbbs mobile app

NIU starting to comment + lick its chops: https://www.niutoday.info/2020/07/27/new...b-and-niu/

(07-27-2020 06:55 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  NIU starting to comment + lick its chops: https://www.niutoday.info/2020/07/27/new...b-and-niu/

Sorely needed. Keep ‘em coming.

(07-02-2020 09:38 PM)Huckin Fuskie Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 09:12 PM)Big Red Wrote:  Fine. You want to hide the source.

No one cares anymore.

Peace.

Interesting, first you set the rules for the members of this board, then you determine what they care about or don't care about.

You also lied about what I posted, lied about your need for the source, wouldn't answer the original question and now lie about not being able to find a source you concede you don't need to make your point (which you admit you can't really make).

Sorry to tie you into a pretzel.

Peace out and enjoy your 4th weekend!

Sorry I have been a bit busy to pay attention to this. But, for the record--- you make no sense. Your initial post gave the impression that you thought labor from elsewhere was a negative thing. Then you get upset when asked where that came from. And you end with labor from elsewhere is a good thing. In the meantime you make ad hominen attacks on others who merely asked you to clarify or support your statements.

Glad I missed the last two weeks here on this. Have a great rest of your day!