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Mid Major Pecking Order
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dirtyjersey Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-29-2020 09:58 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess if I had to push them all together, it'd go something like this. Doing them as a ranking doesn't make much sense to me, so I'll do them as tiers.

AAC (yes they're mid-major until proven otherwise)
MWC, WCC, A10
MVC, CAA
Horizon, OVC, MAC, Ivy
MAAC, C-USA, SoCon, Sun Belt
WAC, Big West, Summit, Patriot, Southland
Big Sky, NEC, AEC, Big South
ASUN, MEAC, SWAC

This is as much about basketball prestige as performance. Granted, I might be a little biased from a geographic standpoint, I'll admit.

I largely agree with that list. Until AAC proves they are a major conference, they are mid major. I see them being stuck between the 2 but more in line with the likes of MWC and WCC.

Interesting that you rated the MAAC so highly. They seem to be able to produce decent teams but they’re never really threatening. The AEC on the other hand has had Vermont looking consistently good and UMBC raised their profile with the win over UMBC so I would switch the 2.

The ASUN could be a really good conference but instability really hurts them. If they could just build a solid core, I could see them becoming a 2 bid league with UNF, FGCU, Lipscomb and Liberty challenging for an at large each year.
06-30-2020 12:40 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-29-2020 08:24 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  AAC isn't 'mid major' but whatever...

The AAC at its peak can be as good as the bottom few P5's/Big East, easily.

On the one hand, ECU, Tulane, and USF haven't shown many signs that they're capable of making the Tournament anytime soon.

On the other hand, Cincinnati, Memphis, Wichita State, Temple, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, and, with a Tacko Fall-like player, UCF, are all capable programs of making the Tournament more often than not. So far in the league's existence, though, only about half of them are very competitive in a given year.

The general perception, while it may not be completely fair, is that the AAC is closer to the A-10 than it is to a P5 or to the Big East. Until the above named programs start clicking on all cylinders at the same time, the perception will persist.
06-30-2020 07:22 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 07:22 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 08:24 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  AAC isn't 'mid major' but whatever...

... So far in the league's existence, though, only about half of them are very competitive in a given year.

The general perception, while it may not be completely fair, is that the AAC is closer to the A-10 than it is to a P5 or to the Big East. ...

So long as only around four of eight prospective Tournament bid contenders are contenders for most years, that general perception would be reasonably fair.
06-30-2020 07:36 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 07:57 AM by CliftonAve.)
06-30-2020 07:53 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 08:20 AM by bill dazzle.)
06-30-2020 08:11 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.)

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

what your seeing is the other side of the coin, the new/current version and perception of college athletics is "the money equals the power" and there are only 5 conferences that make the money and by which are called power. any other conference is mid-major. performance only mean you have really good teams with achievements in a non-power conference. The only exception, which i believe is temporary, is the Big East conference for Basketball.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 08:26 AM by balanced_view.)
06-30-2020 08:26 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 08:26 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.)

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

what your seeing is the other side of the coin, the new/current version and perception of college athletics is "the money equals the power" and there are only 5 conferences that make the money and by which are called power. any other conference is mid-major. performance only mean you have really good teams with achievements in a non-power conference. The only exception, which i believe is temporary, is the Big East conference for Basketball.


No fair, reasonable and knowledgeable follower of men's college basketball (whether a fan or a member of the media) would classify the Memphis and Cincy programs as "mid-major."

So regarding the perceptions of the clueless and/or agenda-driven folks on this board (and elsewhere) who for some odd reason classify the Memphis and Cincy programs as "mid-major" ... I respect their right to hold that view but I could care less about why they misguidedly do.
06-30-2020 08:41 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
I think it's very easy to distinguish there are power conferences (ACC, B1G, Big 12, Big East, PAC and SEC), which consist of many high-major programs and even a few mid-major-like programs, but are anchored by true blue blood programs. However, these latter programs are elevated due to their conference status and associations, despite their relative inability to have consistent success on the court. There are also high-major programs, like Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Dayton, etc. that may not be in power conferences, but are still consistently capable of competing for conference championships, tournament berths and even deep tournament runs. The difference is that these programs do not rely on conference affiliation to be successful (which is an incredible accomplishment in itself). The two (high-major programs in power conferences, high-major programs in non-power conferences) are not mutually exclusive.

Thus, any insinuation or comparison for programs like Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Dayton, Houston, etc. to be "mid-major" are just completely and flat-out ignorant. Personally, outside the power conferences, I would label the AAC, A10, MWC and WCC as "high-major" conferences, due to their budgets, resources and overall tournament berths/seeds. I think the "mid-major" grouping consists of C-USA, MAC, MVC, OVC, Ivy, Big South, American East, and maybe one or two others - conferences that might only get 1-bid, but have shown abilities to have a team, or teams, win multiple games in the tournament over time. The rest, which are not just one-bid leagues, but also very rarely to have a team win a game, would be the "low-majors".
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 09:35 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
06-30-2020 08:55 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 08:26 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.)

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

what your seeing is the other side of the coin, the new/current version and perception of college athletics is "the money equals the power" and there are only 5 conferences that make the money and by which are called power. any other conference is mid-major. performance only mean you have really good teams with achievements in a non-power conference. The only exception, which i believe is temporary, is the Big East conference for Basketball.

Money? Not all money comes from TV contracts. UC just rebuilt their arena two years ago on private donations for the tune of $90M. Private funding paid to do the football stadium the year earlier. Sorry, but UC and Louisiana-Lafayette are not on the same tier athletically.
06-30-2020 09:20 AM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
As a fan of an AAC member school (who admittedly doesn't acknowledge basketball as a an actual sport, it's more of a hobby like rollerblading), I would consider the AAC a mid-major in basketball simply because we don't produce viable contenders year in and year out like the "major" conferences do.

Let me put it this way, if you were going to bet on the ACC or AAC to put a team in the final 4 next year, which would you take? If you were offered that bet 10 times, would you take the AAC any of those times?

If anything, one could maybe argue that one or two of the "Power 5" conferences could also be considered mid majors in terms of basketball. Which again, who cares. It's basketball.
06-30-2020 09:21 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.

Hence a conference that had a majority of it's schools with that kind of pedigree ... even if the Final Fours are over half a century ago and it's 5-7 in the current decade ... would be considered a major conference.

Though a bit of that is just "have stat, will travel" ... if a billion dollar general University endowment made you a Major, Harvard and Yale would be High Majors.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 09:24 AM by BruceMcF.)
06-30-2020 09:23 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

I don't see how anyone can reasonably say the AAC is in the same basketball category as e.g. the B1G or ACC, so if the AAC is a "major" hoops conference, then what are the P5 and Big East? Super-Majors?

My point is, we have to have some terminology to distinguish AAC hoops from the hoops of the P6 hoops conferences. I'm open to what you think that should be.

And remember, just because a conference is mid-major doesn't mean all programs are. E.g., circa 1991, UNLV was certainly a "major" basketball program, whereas its conference, the Big West, was decidedly mid-major. We see this in all sports and in both directions, e.g., in football, Vanderbilt and Indiana do not have "major"-level football programs in terms of results on the field, but that doesn't mean the SEC and B1G aren't "major" football conferences. So showing that some AAC schools have "major"-level credentials, such as Cincy and Memphis, does not refute the point that the conference is itself overall a "mid-major" conference, or whatever term you want to use.

Truth is, the AAC in hoops is kind of a tweener, as it is in football: Not in the same class as the true Majors, but also arguably a cut above the solid mid-majors as well.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 09:38 AM by quo vadis.)
06-30-2020 09:32 AM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-29-2020 08:47 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 08:24 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  AAC isn't 'mid major' but whatever...

But some day they might rise to that level.

Rimshot
06-30-2020 10:39 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 12:40 AM)dirtyjersey Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 09:58 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess if I had to push them all together, it'd go something like this. Doing them as a ranking doesn't make much sense to me, so I'll do them as tiers.

AAC (yes they're mid-major until proven otherwise)
MWC, WCC, A10
MVC, CAA
Horizon, OVC, MAC, Ivy
MAAC, C-USA, SoCon, Sun Belt
WAC, Big West, Summit, Patriot, Southland
Big Sky, NEC, AEC, Big South
ASUN, MEAC, SWAC

This is as much about basketball prestige as performance. Granted, I might be a little biased from a geographic standpoint, I'll admit.

I largely agree with that list. Until AAC proves they are a major conference, they are mid major. I see them being stuck between the 2 but more in line with the likes of MWC and WCC.

Interesting that you rated the MAAC so highly. They seem to be able to produce decent teams but they’re never really threatening. The AEC on the other hand has had Vermont looking consistently good and UMBC raised their profile with the win over UMBC so I would switch the 2.

The ASUN could be a really good conference but instability really hurts them. If they could just build a solid core, I could see them becoming a 2 bid league with UNF, FGCU, Lipscomb and Liberty challenging for an at large each year.

What does it take to "prove?" They are one of 8 existing conferences with a winning tournament record. And the 8th, CUSA, had most of its wins from Louisville (ACC) and the current AAC members.
06-30-2020 11:05 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

The A-10 has always been "called" a mid-major. Murray has always been "called" a mid-major. The rest of Murray's partners, not always.
06-30-2020 11:07 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

I don't see how anyone can reasonably say the AAC is in the same basketball category as e.g. the B1G or ACC, so if the AAC is a "major" hoops conference, then what are the P5 and Big East? Super-Majors?

My point is, we have to have some terminology to distinguish AAC hoops from the hoops of the P6 hoops conferences. I'm open to what you think that should be.

And remember, just because a conference is mid-major doesn't mean all programs are. E.g., circa 1991, UNLV was certainly a "major" basketball program, whereas its conference, the Big West, was decidedly mid-major. We see this in all sports and in both directions, e.g., in football, Vanderbilt and Indiana do not have "major"-level football programs in terms of results on the field, but that doesn't mean the SEC and B1G aren't "major" football conferences. So showing that some AAC schools have "major"-level credentials, such as Cincy and Memphis, does not refute the point that the conference is itself overall a "mid-major" conference, or whatever term you want to use.

Truth is, the AAC in hoops is kind of a tweener, as it is in football: Not in the same class as the true Majors, but also arguably a cut above the solid mid-majors as well.

I think the original use of the term was best. ESPN has expanded it. Basically the conferences who got the most votes in the 90s NCAA management realignment were majors. That was the BCS6 (B10, B12, SEC, ACC, Pac 10, Big East) + CUSA and WAC. Each had 3 votes. The Big West and MAC got 1.5 and the rest of Division I got 1. So there were 8 majors and 10-12 mid-majors along with a dozen or so minors.

MVC often got a 2nd bid, but were a mid-major.

Now ESPN associates major with P5 + Big East. But AAC (especially with UConn) and MWC are majors.

I think the WCC gets overrated because it has a couple of "major" programs in BYU and Gonzaga, but with the exception of St. Mary's the rest of the conference is barely mid-major category. A-10 is classic mid-major. Smaller schools who can win a few NCAA games but are very unlikely to make a final 4. A-10 is the best of the rest.
06-30-2020 11:20 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
MWC is well below A10/MVC/WCC in NCAA Tournament winning% -- both including former members and excluding former members.

Take MVC vs MWC since the year MWC formed:

NCAA Sweet 16's
Current
MVC 6 MWC 4
+Former
MVC 9 MWC 6

NCAA wins
Current
MVC 18 MWC 15
+Former
MVC 34 MWC 22

NCAA W%
Current
MVC 45% MWC 30%
+Former
MVC 47% MWC 31%
06-30-2020 12:16 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

I don't see how anyone can reasonably say the AAC is in the same basketball category as e.g. the B1G or ACC, so if the AAC is a "major" hoops conference, then what are the P5 and Big East? Super-Majors?

My point is, we have to have some terminology to distinguish AAC hoops from the hoops of the P6 hoops conferences. I'm open to what you think that should be.

And remember, just because a conference is mid-major doesn't mean all programs are. E.g., circa 1991, UNLV was certainly a "major" basketball program, whereas its conference, the Big West, was decidedly mid-major. We see this in all sports and in both directions, e.g., in football, Vanderbilt and Indiana do not have "major"-level football programs in terms of results on the field, but that doesn't mean the SEC and B1G aren't "major" football conferences. So showing that some AAC schools have "major"-level credentials, such as Cincy and Memphis, does not refute the point that the conference is itself overall a "mid-major" conference, or whatever term you want to use.

Truth is, the AAC in hoops is kind of a tweener, as it is in football: Not in the same class as the true Majors, but also arguably a cut above the solid mid-majors as well.



The AAC is not on the same level as the P6 leagues. Agree. However, it is not "mid-major" like the OVC. There is a "major" difference between the two leagues. The OVC is solidly mid-major on every level. Whereas, the American has elements of "high-major-ness."

Thus my ranking (and one with which seemingly a decent number of folks agree):

P6 (or "high-major") men's hoops conferences: the P5 and the Big East (I define a "power league" in men's basketball as one in which every program is a high-major or, even more so, a blueblood.)

Major conferences: AAC, A10, MWC and perhaps the WCC. These leagues have at least half their programs as "major" to "high major" but also have various "flaws" (i.e., some mid-major-esque programs, the lack of a blueblood, the inability to get more than three teams to the NCAA tourney, etc.)

Mid-Major: OVC is an example

Low-Major: the lowest of the DI leagues

GoldenWarrior11 outlines this fairly and accurately in a previous post.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 01:10 PM by bill dazzle.)
06-30-2020 01:05 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 12:16 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  MWC is well below A10/MVC/WCC in NCAA Tournament winning% -- both including former members and excluding former members.

Take MVC vs MWC since the year MWC formed:

NCAA Sweet 16's
Current
MVC 6 MWC 4
+Former
MVC 9 MWC 6

NCAA wins
Current
MVC 18 MWC 15
+Former
MVC 34 MWC 22

NCAA W%
Current
MVC 45% MWC 30%
+Former
MVC 47% MWC 31%


But you can't go by winning percentage solely. MWC has some programs with big fan bases and budgets.
06-30-2020 01:07 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Mid Major Pecking Order
(06-30-2020 11:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 08:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  1,829 wins (12th all-time)
2 National Titles
6 Final Fours
8 Elite Eights
33 NCAAT appearances (including the last 9 in a row)
30 Conference Championships
42 All-Americans
11,250 in attendance last year
10th most appearances in the AP Top 25 since they began tracking it in 1979
University with a $1.4B endowment, 46K students and over 300k living alumni

Yeah that sounds mid-major to me.


I'm glad you posted this, C-Ave.

Some of these posters are either clueless or enjoy taking shots at leagues (in this case, the AAC) they dislike or envy.

In men's basketball, the American is a "major" conference (ranked behind the P5 and Big East) based on multiple metrics that involve budgets, coaches salaries, recruiting, attendance, historical results, etc.

To classify the American (and the Mountain West and A10, for that matter) as "mid-major" in men's hoops like, say, the truly mid-major OVC ... absurd.

I've posted before: I root for Belmont, Memphis and Cincinnati. So I can fairly and unbiasedly say the Tiger and Bearcat programs — in scale and scope — are like the L.A. Lakers franchise compared to the Bruin program.

Some people just don't get it with the "mid-major" theme — or choose to ignore the realities.

The A-10 has always been "called" a mid-major. Murray has always been "called" a mid-major. The rest of Murray's partners, not always.


Agree that many fans view the A-10 as "mid-major." But I make a major difference between the A-10 and, for example, the OVC. Thus I put the A-10 as a "major." Admittedly, many disagree with me.
06-30-2020 01:10 PM
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