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SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
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Post: #21
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
And as a parent with two adopted kids, I'm thankful every day their birth parents didn't choose termination.
06-29-2020 11:06 AM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  And this case didn't ban abortions. It just made sure doctors who performed them were authorized to work in a hospital. It went after assembly line abortions.

Not directly, but making it impossible to handle demand would have meant the current right to get one would have been prohibitive to likely many.
06-29-2020 11:06 AM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:02 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:59 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why is this such a huge issue with so many on the right? I mean, seriously, if you believe it is a sin, then don't do it yourself. But you are wasting huge amounts of time, money, and energy fighting a battle that you're not going to win. Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

I mean, single girl gets knocked up, childless couple offers to pay her to have her baby for them, and that's somehow some great moral and ethical problem? Why? Or gay couple wants to adopt child that might otherwise be aborted and that is some great moral and ethical dilemma? Why? And these are things that are beyond the normal hassle required to adopt.

I know someone who would have been a single mother who chose to have an abortion instead. I know someone else who would have been a single mother and chose to put her daughter up for adoption. I know three gay individuals/couples who have chosen to adopt, and I am quite certain that the children involved in all cases are far better off than they would have been otherwise.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand it.

It's a huge issue because many of us see it as murder of the innocent. To me it is on the same plain as the sick guy that walked into an elementary school and killed a lot of innocent kids. However, in our messed up society abortion is legal. It is the simple. I will never be OK with it. I won't resort to violence to stop it, but I will put my time and money into alternatives. But to be clear, in states like California, they are trying to shut down those alternatives, and that makes me sad.

But you have to then admit, that Planned Parenthood and similar groups are necessary for education, etc. Also birth control needs promoted as well. Many will always have a problem with these things that could be used to reduce unwanted pregnancies if they were championed instead of continually demonized by many.

Regardless of RvW, women will still seek abortions.

??? My entire issue with Planned Parenthood is focused on abortion. As long as they provide those, I will be against them.

It is interesting that you bring them up since they were founded by a racist eugenics focused individual.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 11:07 AM by GrayBeard.)
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Post: #24
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:02 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:59 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why is this such a huge issue with so many on the right? I mean, seriously, if you believe it is a sin, then don't do it yourself. But you are wasting huge amounts of time, money, and energy fighting a battle that you're not going to win. Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

I mean, single girl gets knocked up, childless couple offers to pay her to have her baby for them, and that's somehow some great moral and ethical problem? Why? Or gay couple wants to adopt child that might otherwise be aborted and that is some great moral and ethical dilemma? Why? And these are things that are beyond the normal hassle required to adopt.

I know someone who would have been a single mother who chose to have an abortion instead. I know someone else who would have been a single mother and chose to put her daughter up for adoption. I know three gay individuals/couples who have chosen to adopt, and I am quite certain that the children involved in all cases are far better off than they would have been otherwise.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand it.

It's a huge issue because many of us see it as murder of the innocent. To me it is on the same plain as the sick guy that walked into an elementary school and killed a lot of innocent kids. However, in our messed up society abortion is legal. It is the simple. I will never be OK with it. I won't resort to violence to stop it, but I will put my time and money into alternatives. But to be clear, in states like California, they are trying to shut down those alternatives, and that makes me sad.

But you have to then admit, that Planned Parenthood and similar groups are necessary for education, etc. Also birth control needs promoted as well. Many will always have a problem with these things that could be used to reduce unwanted pregnancies if they were championed instead of continually demonized by many.

Regardless of RvW, women will still seek abortions.

Planned Parenthood isn't necessary for anything but making doctors rich and giving money to Democratic candidates. There are no "similar" groups. Planned Parenthood does the "education" to feed into their abortion assembly lines. Other groups are actually interested in helping the pregnant women.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 11:08 AM by bullet.)
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
Just spitballing here...supposed the right worked with Planned Parenthood to promote parental education, birth control and adoption services. Would that actually result in fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions? Or does stomping your feet and standing in front of the local PP office for one month before the election each November stop more? I'd bet the former.
06-29-2020 11:13 AM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:06 AM)bullet Wrote:  And as a parent with two adopted kids, I'm thankful every day their birth parents didn't choose termination.

Good job Bullet!
06-29-2020 11:17 AM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why is this such a huge issue with so many on the right? I mean, seriously, if you believe it is a sin, then don't do it yourself. But you are wasting huge amounts of time, money, and energy fighting a battle that you're not going to win. Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

I mean, single girl gets knocked up, childless couple offers to pay her to have her baby for them, and that's somehow some great moral and ethical problem? Why? Or gay couple wants to adopt child that might otherwise be aborted and that is some great moral and ethical dilemma? Why? And these are things that are beyond the normal hassle required to adopt.

I know someone who would have been a single mother who chose to have an abortion instead. I know someone else who would have been a single mother and chose to put her daughter up for adoption. I know three gay individuals/couples who have chosen to adopt, and I am quite certain that the children involved in all cases are far better off than they would have been otherwise.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand it.

It has to do with one of the moral foundations of our society: is human life valuable?

We know that the child in the womb is a human being. We can argue about sentience and when that awareness comes into play, but that does not change the scientific fact that the baby in the womb is a human being.

Does our society consider innocent life worthy of being protected or not? We know the radical left is waiting to take a mile every opportunity it gets. We've seen people on the left suggest not only should the killing of innocent human life take place over the entire gestation period up to and including birth, but also suggesting that it should be OK to kill innocent babies post-birth.

Rational people typically are appalled at that suggestion, but using some pre-birth arguments the left could make the same case case for post-birth as well.


This is a moral issue. And the current law should be overturned. And yes, the rad left should be concerned that stacking a conservative court could overturn RvW. Most definitely that is the case.

The idea of "settled law" is disgusting, and not just on the abortion front.
06-29-2020 11:18 AM
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Post: #28
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:13 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just spitballing here...supposed the right worked with Planned Parenthood to promote parental education, birth control and adoption services. Would that actually result in fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions? Or does stomping your feet and standing in front of the local PP office for one month before the election each November stop more? I'd bet the former.

I can not stand with PP as long as they murder (perform abortions) and profit from murder.

And no...I've never "stomped my feet and stood in front of a PP office" nor do I plan to. I do support other options though. So you see...I'm not going to simply virtue signal, but instead I'm going to work to help those in need.
06-29-2020 11:21 AM
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Post: #29
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  And as someone who claims to be a Libertarian, why would you force a religious based adoption agency to certify gay parents?

Who said I would? There are plenty of ways for gay parents to adopt. Just make them all easier for everyone.
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Post: #30
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

Hell Owl, i can say this from personal knowledge.. ADOPTION USED to be much easier to do. My parents adopted a troubled child, and she was a F'ING HANDFUL with the stunts she'd pull.

But the adoption process was so much simpler.

Proved you had financial means, no criminal background, and a couple of visits from the adoption agency.. and you were done.

NOW? CHILD Services wants to _TAKE_ Children from deserving parents for the most ridiculous reasons ever. You think Child Services is going to make adoption easy in this day and age?
06-29-2020 11:24 AM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:24 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

Hell Owl, i can say this from personal knowledge.. ADOPTION USED to be much easier to do. My parents adopted a troubled child, and she was a F'ING HANDFUL with the stunts she'd pull.

But the adoption process was so much simpler.

Proved you had financial means, no criminal background, and a couple of visits from the adoption agency.. and you were done.

NOW? CHILD Services wants to _TAKE_ Children from deserving parents for the most ridiculous reasons ever. You think Child Services is going to make adoption easy in this day and age?

Well...I think the adoption process should be somewhat strenuous as there are a lot of sick people in the world that would look to harm a child. There are also a number of different ways/methods for adoption now as well.

But yes...Child Services can use the most mundane reasons to take kids away.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 11:27 AM by GrayBeard.)
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Post: #32
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:24 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.
Hell Owl, i can say this from personal knowledge.. ADOPTION USED to be much easier to do. My parents adopted a troubled child, and she was a F'ING HANDFUL with the stunts she'd pull.
But the adoption process was so much simpler.
Proved you had financial means, no criminal background, and a couple of visits from the adoption agency.. and you were done.
NOW? CHILD Services wants to _TAKE_ Children from deserving parents for the most ridiculous reasons ever. You think Child Services is going to make adoption easy in this day and age?

So who said we had to have Child Services? My experiences with them as an attorney in other contexts have been brutally bad. They would not give custody to grandparents when parents were busted in a drug raid on live TV with the children sitting at the table where the deal was going down. They fought to have the TV tape excluded from evidence, and the judge went along with them.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 11:58 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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Post: #33
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So who said we had to have Child Services? My experiences with them as an attorney in other contexts have been brutally bad. They would not give custody to grandparents when parents were busted in a drug raid on live TV with the children sitting at the table where the deal was going down. They fought to have the TV tape excluded from evidence, and the judge went along with them.

That's my point, and it looks like you agree with me..

Nowadays, Child Services has to have their fingers in every bloody child adoption, family breakup, etc...

This is why your statement about "Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options", doesn't work... when you have to fight the Gestapo (and yes, I _DO_ consider Child Services the one dept that DESERVES the Gestapo nickname), and 99 times out of 100 you're gonna get gobsmacked by that corrupt dept.
06-29-2020 12:16 PM
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Post: #34
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why is this such a huge issue with so many on the right? I mean, seriously, if you believe it is a sin, then don't do it yourself. But you are wasting huge amounts of time, money, and energy fighting a battle that you're not going to win. Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

I mean, single girl gets knocked up, childless couple offers to pay her to have her baby for them, and that's somehow some great moral and ethical problem? Why? Or gay couple wants to adopt child that might otherwise be aborted and that is some great moral and ethical dilemma? Why? And these are things that are beyond the normal hassle required to adopt.

I know someone who would have been a single mother who chose to have an abortion instead. I know someone else who would have been a single mother and chose to put her daughter up for adoption. I know three gay individuals/couples who have chosen to adopt, and I am quite certain that the children involved in all cases are far better off than they would have been otherwise.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand it.


This is one of the few Democratic issues I agree with. I am not very religious which is probably why............
06-29-2020 12:53 PM
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Post: #35
RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
This is more disappointing than concerning. Its one less thing to fire up the Democrats and one more to fire up the Republicans.
06-29-2020 02:05 PM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:24 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

Hell Owl, i can say this from personal knowledge.. ADOPTION USED to be much easier to do. My parents adopted a troubled child, and she was a F'ING HANDFUL with the stunts she'd pull.

But the adoption process was so much simpler.

Proved you had financial means, no criminal background, and a couple of visits from the adoption agency.. and you were done.

NOW? CHILD Services wants to _TAKE_ Children from deserving parents for the most ridiculous reasons ever. You think Child Services is going to make adoption easy in this day and age?

And it used to be incredibly expensive. I believe it still is, especially private adoptions.

I found this:

Quote:Why Is Adoption So Expensive?
The reason that infant, embryo, and international adoption is so expensive is that (unlike foster care), the cost is not paid for by tax payers. We estimate that adoption from foster care costs taxpayers $100,000 per case.

And this...

Quote:Why Is Adoption So Expensive?

Adoption is expensive because the process to legally adopt a baby requires the involvement of attorneys, social workers, physicians, government administrators, adoption specialists, counselors and more. While the adoption journey is an emotional one for prospective birth mothers and adoptive families, the adoption process is a legal function. Adoptions completed by fully licensed agencies are held to high ethical standards, which can mean more paperwork and higher costs.

According to Adoptive Families Magazine, the average cost of a domestic infant adoption with an agency is $43,000. This number can change based on a variety of factors. It is by no means set in stone. However, most adoptive families do end up spending close to this in adoption fees and variable adoption costs.


Interesting that taxpayers pay the costs for foster care adoptions. I didn't realize that. I'm OK with, but I didn't realize it.

I'd much rather pay taxes to support adoption rather than abortion.
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 02:24 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:24 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

Hell Owl, i can say this from personal knowledge.. ADOPTION USED to be much easier to do. My parents adopted a troubled child, and she was a F'ING HANDFUL with the stunts she'd pull.

But the adoption process was so much simpler.

Proved you had financial means, no criminal background, and a couple of visits from the adoption agency.. and you were done.

NOW? CHILD Services wants to _TAKE_ Children from deserving parents for the most ridiculous reasons ever. You think Child Services is going to make adoption easy in this day and age?

And it used to be incredibly expensive. I believe it still is, especially private adoptions.

I found this:

Quote:Why Is Adoption So Expensive?
The reason that infant, embryo, and international adoption is so expensive is that (unlike foster care), the cost is not paid for by tax payers. We estimate that adoption from foster care costs taxpayers $100,000 per case.

And this...

Quote:Why Is Adoption So Expensive?

Adoption is expensive because the process to legally adopt a baby requires the involvement of attorneys, social workers, physicians, government administrators, adoption specialists, counselors and more. While the adoption journey is an emotional one for prospective birth mothers and adoptive families, the adoption process is a legal function. Adoptions completed by fully licensed agencies are held to high ethical standards, which can mean more paperwork and higher costs.

According to Adoptive Families Magazine, the average cost of a domestic infant adoption with an agency is $43,000. This number can change based on a variety of factors. It is by no means set in stone. However, most adoptive families do end up spending close to this in adoption fees and variable adoption costs.


Interesting that taxpayers pay the costs for foster care adoptions. I didn't realize that. I'm OK with, but I didn't realize it.

I'd much rather pay taxes to support adoption rather than abortion.

Taxpayers are paying for the foster care system, so getting the kids adopted is a much better option then floundering in the foster system and becoming homeless when they turn 18.
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
I don’t think you guys understand how the court works… It is not a political body
06-29-2020 02:31 PM
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 11:18 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why is this such a huge issue with so many on the right? I mean, seriously, if you believe it is a sin, then don't do it yourself. But you are wasting huge amounts of time, money, and energy fighting a battle that you're not going to win. Put that time, money, and energy into creating viable options to abortion--like making adoption much easier to do--and you'll accomplish far more in the long run.

I mean, single girl gets knocked up, childless couple offers to pay her to have her baby for them, and that's somehow some great moral and ethical problem? Why? Or gay couple wants to adopt child that might otherwise be aborted and that is some great moral and ethical dilemma? Why? And these are things that are beyond the normal hassle required to adopt.

I know someone who would have been a single mother who chose to have an abortion instead. I know someone else who would have been a single mother and chose to put her daughter up for adoption. I know three gay individuals/couples who have chosen to adopt, and I am quite certain that the children involved in all cases are far better off than they would have been otherwise.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand it.

It has to do with one of the moral foundations of our society: is human life valuable?

We know that the child in the womb is a human being. We can argue about sentience and when that awareness comes into play, but that does not change the scientific fact that the baby in the womb is a human being.

Does our society consider innocent life worthy of being protected or not? We know the radical left is waiting to take a mile every opportunity it gets. We've seen people on the left suggest not only should the killing of innocent human life take place over the entire gestation period up to and including birth, but also suggesting that it should be OK to kill innocent babies post-birth.

Rational people typically are appalled at that suggestion, but using some pre-birth arguments the left could make the same case case for post-birth as well.


This is a moral issue. And the current law should be overturned. And yes, the rad left should be concerned that stacking a conservative court could overturn RvW. Most definitely that is the case.

The idea of "settled law" is disgusting, a-nd not just on the abortion front.




If black lives matter then the abortion issue matters.

Half of our society treats this issue like the unborn child has no rights, no right to life and simply does not count as a human life.

Reasonable people should be able to agree that abortion is horrific and should be a rare, last resort procedure in special circumstances. Its an issue that shows just how backwards, twisted and hypocritical we are capable of being.

We have to tear the nation apart over a few rare instances of police brutality againt minorities, but we are just fine with MILLIONS of them being murdered as innocent babies on an operating table.

Its a very evil and disgusting mindset too many have.
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RE: SCOTUS Strikes Down LA Abortion Law - Roberts Joins Libs
(06-29-2020 02:31 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I don’t think you guys understand how the court works… It is not a political body

Would you say the same thing if the ruling had been 5-4 the other way?
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