As long as no one else leaves, it wouldn’t take much to save the MEAC. If they could manage to flip just 2 CIAA schools with baseball teams they could cancel the funeral and be back in good shape.

(06-27-2020 08:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  As long as no one else leaves, it wouldn’t take much to save the MEAC. If they could manage to flip just 2 CIAA schools with baseball teams they could cancel the funeral and be back in good shape.

Only three CIAA schools have baseball; Claflin, Lincoln (PA), and Virginia State. Claflin is non-football with 11 sports (5m/6w), Lincoln (PA) has 13 sports (6m/7w) including football, Virginia State has 16 sports (8/8) including football. If the MEAC is counting on CIAA schools to help bail them out, they are very likely going to have a rude awakening.

(06-27-2020 07:20 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 07:06 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Zoom Q&A with MEAC Commissioner and Howard President

Having gotten around to watching it, Howard’s president is all-in on saving the MEAC. He may as well be the commissioner - he takes the lead on all questions and gives elaborate answers. On the other hand, the actual commissioner sounds like he’s on drugs and has trouble putting sentences together.

Missouri's president was head of the Big 12 board of directors and talking about saving the conference while he was negotiating with the SEC.

(06-27-2020 06:26 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'm having a hard time seeing a path for continued existence for the MEAC. Let's say somehow they get Virginia State to move up. Then what? That still only puts them at 9 members overall, 7 for football. Every legacy member is going to still be looking for a way out. Howard should have a good shot at the CAA, Patriot, or at least the NEC. Del. State is looking at the NEC. Surely, Norfolk State, NCCU, and SC State are looking at the ASUN and/or the Big South. Why would any of that change if Va. State joins?

The open question here is whether any of those schools other than Howard has a ticket out of Dodge. If Norfolk State, NCCU and SC State are told, "sure, as part of the UAC deal, otherwise no", and the UAC deal never comes together. If the NEC tells Delaware State "thanks, but no thanks".

It's one thing to be looking for another conference home (as many in the WAC would be doing if there was another conference that would take them). That doesn't guarantee there is one.

If you go to play "fix it or flip it" and go to the market and find that there isn't anyone on the market to buy, that kind of focuses the mind on the fix it option.

Which is why we are waiting for news Monday or Tuesday with bated breath ... if there is a stay of execution right now, and a set of six MEAC schools come out of it finding that it's MEAC or D2, that's a set of six schools with a much stronger incentive to try to make the MEAC work.

One would think with both more Florida travel, the MEAC would be a good fit for Virginia St. They could bus to all conference members

(06-27-2020 04:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State is an HBCU, but the vast majority of their current student body is white.

I’m not sure the MEAC can afford to be very picky.

(06-27-2020 06:27 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 05:02 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State are not a black school anymore, never mind it is HBCU designated for it's origins. Demographics and integration have turned it into the state's generic 2nd public school (65% White, 14% Black, 10% two or more races, 10% decline to state -- probably mostly White). I am a bit surprised that has not yet happened to Delaware State (75% Black, 11% White, 6% Hispanic, 5% two or more, 1% Asian), especially given UDel is over 60% out of state students, limiting the placements to only 1,600 per year for local kids.

I'm sure DavidSt will throw out a ton of names. But nobody is going to move up (St. Thomas aside) in the next few years due to Covid-19.

Wouldn't that be Marshall?

Yes, it would.

(06-28-2020 11:00 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State is an HBCU, but the vast majority of their current student body is white.

I’m not sure the MEAC can afford to be very picky.

My point was just that as a PWI, it's not your typical HBCU.

(06-28-2020 12:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 11:00 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State is an HBCU, but the vast majority of their current student body is white.

I’m not sure the MEAC can afford to be very picky.

My point was just that as a PWI, it's not your typical HBCU.

That’s true.

I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

(06-28-2020 01:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

Technically, an institution can be both a PWI and HBCU, as WV State demonstrates. Also, it's NJIT. No offense, but anyone who refers to them as "New Jersey Tech" comes off as clueless.

(06-28-2020 01:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

There’s one more desperate than New Jersey Tech: the MEAC would improve Chicago St’s situation (lower travel expenses, everyone being PBI’s, athletic budgets, attainable level of competition), but we just dropped baseball which the MEAC would need. MEAC is so radioactive right now that CSU probably thinks it will collapse even if they join, leaving the school homeless.

(06-28-2020 01:34 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

There’s one more desperate than New Jersey Tech: the MEAC would improve Chicago St’s situation (lower travel expenses, everyone being PBI’s, athletic budgets, attainable level of competition), but we just dropped baseball which the MEAC would need. MEAC is so radioactive right now that CSU probably thinks it will collapse even if they join, leaving the school homeless.

Yeah, the MEAC is the only conference looking less stable (greater chance of collapsing) than the WAC.

(06-28-2020 01:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

Technically, an institution can be both a PWI and HBCU, as WV State demonstrates. Also, it's NJIT. No offense, but anyone who refers to them as "New Jersey Tech" comes off as clueless.

UNC-Pembroke is another that is a university created for Native American, but is a PWI just like the HBCUs. They should look into adding them.

As like someone said, MEAC can't be picky on who they pick means that they have to invite non-HBCUs to join. Many of the HBCUs in NAIA a NJCAAs are in conferences that are mixed.

What if the SWAC pulls a Sun Belt (sort of)? The Sun Belt brought in Idaho and New Mexico St as football affiliates for a 4-year period then gave them the boot, per the contract. What if the SWAC gives the remaining MEAC schools a temporary home for 4 years and says “work on finding another home, you have 4 years.” The SWAC could say they helped their fellow HBCUs out by buying them additional time and no single school can be faulted for folding the conference?

(06-27-2020 07:20 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 07:06 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Zoom Q&A with MEAC Commissioner and Howard President

Having gotten around to watching it, Howard’s president is all-in on saving the MEAC. He may as well be the commissioner - he takes the lead on all questions and gives elaborate answers. On the other hand, the actual commissioner sounds like he’s on drugs and has trouble putting sentences together.

I mean, if your entire league is falling apart then you might as well get drunk before showing up to the press conference. Why not?

I'm kidding, but it's a legitimate possibility at the same time.

Howard’s president seems a lot more competent than than the commissioner and if someone rebuilds this conference it will be him.

(06-28-2020 01:34 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There’s one more desperate than New Jersey Tech: the MEAC would improve Chicago St’s situation (lower travel expenses, everyone being PBI’s, athletic budgets, attainable level of competition), but we just dropped baseball which the MEAC would need.

It may be that the MEAC cannot be stabilized ... and it may be that the MEAC cannot be stabilized without Virginia State adding, since at the very least it puts it a step away from the ledge at 7 FB schools ...

... but if the MEAC was down to six and needed Chicago State as a basketball school, it wouldn't much matter whether that was six FB schools as core members, or six baseball/volleyball schools as core members, it doesn't seem like the core membership would be disappointed at not having to fly baseball teams to Chicago.

Thing is, the way the rule is written, it doesn't actually specify the the sports sponsored by the six schools that let you be a multi-sport conference all have to be the same sports:

Men's sports requirements:

Quote: The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball.

The conference sponsors Basketball, FB, baseball, and all three tracks. There is no core membership in these sponsored sports.

Quote: In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports.

This is not violated by sponsoring baseball with five members, all that does is eliminate your autobid.

Quote: A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball.

You don't get a golden ticket if you are made up of members that don't sponsor the golden ticket sport.

Quote: A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and ... [women's sport requirements follow next]

This is where if Coppin State and UMES added any other men's team sport, they would be part of the minimum six. It could be Lacrosse (given that they are in Maryland), it could be men's volleyball.

Note that it doesn't say anything about these being the same sports sponsored by the conference. And note that it doesn't say "five other sports including football, or else five other sports including two addition team sports", so that the six have to be counting the same men's team sports.

So if Coppin State and UMES added Lacrosse or Men's Volleyball, then the three Maryland members of the MEAC without any obvious ticket out of Dodge would count for the minimum six multi-sport members.

Three more Football schools, and a seventh Basketball full member, and that's a conference.

And why would those three other Football schools stay for? The MEAC would not be churlish with it's FB conference membership, and HBCU schools that found a home for their Olympic Sports and need a home for their FB would be welcome as affiliates.

Indeed, having a way to survive as the MEAC if the ASUN raids two of the three Southern schools would on the one hand make it more attractive for Virginia State to move up to a quite convenient bus league, and on the other hand probably quash any empire building raids motivated by the notion of buying out the MEAC conference charter and using it for the 18 basketball schools with two autobids and a football conference plan, and avoid the need for the Plan B.

Plan C would then be if it almost works, and there is the six-plus FCS conference and the six core members Virginia/Maryland basketball bus league conference and all the participants are happy about how the MEAC was rescued but that seventh Basketball member goes missing ... that's when they break the glass and ask Chicago State if they would like to be the seventh basketball member. And plus host a handful of track meets in Chicago every years, for a rotating selection of MEAC schools to have another venue to meet their Chicago alumni.

But that soccer team you added to maintain your own Division 1 status when you cut baseball ... you go ahead and play that somewhere up in the Great Lakes.

(06-28-2020 02:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think either of the two most logical candidates to try and talk into moving up (Winston-Salem State and Virginia State) will, both due to the economic climate and also the cost of moving up. Two schools they talked into moving up in the last fifteen years, Savannah State and Winston Salem State, both opted to move back down.

And I don't think there is any chance a non-HBCU (PWI = "primarily White institution") would be interested in the MEAC, especially given the instability. The reference to ones in the past probably includes New Jersey Tech; but as desperate as they were, they seem to have passed on that. It's hard to see anyone more desperate than they were.

Delaware State appears to be the most immediate flight risk. But who knows.

Technically, an institution can be both a PWI and HBCU, as WV State demonstrates. Also, it's NJIT. No offense, but anyone who refers to them as "New Jersey Tech" comes off as clueless.

UNC-Pembroke is another that is a university created for Native American, but is a PWI just like the HBCUs. They should look into adding them.

As like someone said, MEAC can't be picky on who they pick means that they have to invite non-HBCUs to join. Many of the HBCUs in NAIA a NJCAAs are in conferences that are mixed.

Do you have a list/thread of upcoming actual realignment moves?

Bowie St is one men’s sport shy of qualifying for D1. They could add baseball and use the facilities of the Orioles’ AA Affiliate, the Bowie Baysox. The money they’d save from not traveling to N.C. all the time could be invested in that baseball program.