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MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
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Post: #21
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-26-2020 10:04 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They said none HBCUs could be targets.

(not going to repeat nonsense)

It's nice to know the endowment numbers, but ...

what is their athletic budget?
how much of that budget is subsidized?
are they willing and able to at least double that budget to be competitive in D1?

On the schools listed:

Frostburg State has completed only 1 year of their reclassification from D3 so they are many years away from maybe being in a position to think about D1.

Pennsylvania has begun discussions on possibly consolidating PASSHE schools within about 5 years because many of the schools have some financial issues and facing declining enrollment.

Winston-Salem State has already said "been there, done that, not again" and they replaced baseball with men's golf just a year ago to save money.

Fayetteville State just dropped a sport last month also to save money.

UNC-Pembroke is moving from the Peach Belt to the Carolinas next year in another money saving move and very unlikely to change to a D1 conference so soon.

It's funny that back in February you were saying Virginia State was too small for D1 and now they are good to join D1 even though their enrollment has not changed.

Show a link for the possibility of UMES and Coppin State football.

I read somewhere there was some kind of grandfather clause allowing SWAC and MEAC schools to not meet all the Division I standards. But I only saw that one place so I don't know if it is true.

As for budgets, SWAC and MEAC dominate the bottom. Using the USA Today for 2017-18, out of 230 schools:
230 Coppin St.
229 SWAC
228 Savannah St. (since dropped)
227 South Carolina St.
226 Chicago St. (who should drop)
225 SWAC
224 MD-Eastern Shore
223 SLC
222 SWAC
221 SWAC

Others 215, 191, 149 (PV) SWAC
209 FAMU
207 Morgan St.
187 Norfolk St.
185 NC Central
180 NC A&T
177 Delaware St.

Howard is private and not listed.
06-27-2020 10:10 AM
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Post: #22
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 10:05 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If one or two more MEAC schools leave, it would probably be a moot point anyway. Everyone would have to find another home, go indy or drop to D2 (is it permissible to have non-football independents?)

NJIT was independent in all sports in 2014-2015 before they became a member of the ASUN. Before that, they were members of the Great West Conference, which never met the rules to gain an autobid to the basketball tournament. They did send their champion to the CIT.
06-27-2020 10:16 AM
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Post: #23
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 10:09 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 10:05 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 09:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I think the easiest solution, the solution that protects everybody (which is something administrators like), is for Monmouth and Robert Morris to switch from Big South football to MEAC football.

I'm not sure the Big South wants to go past 12 full members. (Assuming that Presbyterian survives in Division I). Howard doesn't want to be seen as killing the MEAC. With NC A&T, the ASUN affiliates and the two northern affiliates, Big South is at 10. MEAC is at 6.

I don't know that Monmouth or RMU would care very much about dropping down the ladder a little bit. They'd be moving to the MEAC for (mostly) the same reasons the Big South took them in (protecting members of the club), and they'd be looking at less travel.

With two affiliates, MEAC football has a cushion against defections, which makes defections a little less likely.

Except the MEAC gives up its automatic FCS playoff berth so it can send its champion to the Celebration Bowl. Do they, or NBC for that matter, want Monmouth or Robert Morris representing the MEAC in this celebration of HBCUs?

If one or two more MEAC schools leave, it would probably be a moot point anyway. Everyone would have to find another home, go indy or drop to D2 (is it permissible to have non-football independents?)

That's something I hadn't thought through, and is significant. On the other hand, the MEAC commissioner is talking about bringing in PWIs, because keeping the MEAC alive is more important than keeping the Celebration Bowl.

There's definitely two paths that diverge from another MEAC school leaving: Either take anyone willing to come aboard (D2s, PWI FCS football programs) or dissolve as the rest of the pack run for cover. I suspect it'll be the latter because any affiliates will always be a flight risk, especially if they're a cultural misfit (PWI Chowan joined the CIAA until Conference Carolinas, the place they probably wanted to be all along, invited them). Meanwhile, there's few if any D2s able and willing to join, and that's not likely to change for a long time. And everyone left is eyeing the door nervously.

If the MEAC can get Virginia State to come aboard, they can survive one more defection. Maybe. If Delaware State or someone else moves first, it's over.
06-27-2020 10:19 AM
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Post: #24
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 10:19 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If the MEAC can get Virginia State to come aboard, they can survive one more defection. Maybe. If Delaware State or someone else moves first, it's over.

That's a big if ... Virginia State looks at moving up every five or ten years and always reaches the same conclusion. Whether the smaller footprint but shaky footing of the "New MEAC" is going to make it change it's mind ... I wouldn't want to be counting on that.

The MEAC is seriously hoping that ASUN tells South Carolina State "not interested" and North Carolina Central and Norfolk State "too far away from the core".
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 12:41 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-27-2020 11:07 AM
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Post: #25
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 11:07 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 10:19 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If the MEAC can get Virginia State to come aboard, they can survive one more defection. Maybe. If Delaware State or someone else moves first, it's over.

That's a big if ... Virginia State looks at moving up every five or ten years and always reaches the same conclusion. Whether the smaller footprint but shaky footing of the "New MEAC" is going to make it change it's mind ... I wouldn't want to be counting on that.

The MEAC is seriously hoping that ASUN tells South Carolina State "not interest" and North Carolina Central and Norfolk State "too far away from the core".

The only thing worse than a 12 team 1 bid conference is a 14 team 1 bid conference.
06-27-2020 11:10 AM
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Post: #26
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 11:07 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 10:19 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If the MEAC can get Virginia State to come aboard, they can survive one more defection. Maybe. If Delaware State or someone else moves first, it's over.

That's a big if ... Virginia State looks at moving up every five or ten years and always reaches the same conclusion. Whether the smaller footprint but shaky footing of the "New MEAC" is going to make it change it's mind ... I wouldn't want to be counting on that.

The MEAC is seriously hoping that ASUN tells South Carolina State "not interest" and North Carolina Central and Norfolk State "too far away from the core".

I wonder if the MEAC would drop the admission fee for VSU? That combined with a footprint that's now about as big as the CIAA's (which goes from South Carolina to Pennsylvania) might be tempting. VSU's biggest CIAA rivals were the fellow Virginia schools but Virginia Union is the only one left (Hampton to the Big South, Norfolk State to the MEAC, St. Paul's closed). This gets VSU back with NSU and NCCU. In a previous life I covered VSU athletics and I don't know how much they'd miss the CIAA schools outside Union, so long as they were replaced by D1 HBCUs.
06-27-2020 11:25 AM
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Post: #27
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-26-2020 08:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They said none HBCUs could be targets.

Indiana, PA. $65 million endowment
West Chester $45 million
Gannon $63 million
Shippensberg $40.2 million
Carson-Newman $57.5 million
Lenoir-Rhyne $113 million
Mars Hill $50 million
Wingate $90 million
Bowie State $8.1
Fayetteville State $19 million
Virginia State $47.4
Virginia Union $29 million
Winston-Salem $42.3
Charleston $28.1 million
Frostburg State $22.3 million
UNC-Pembroke $24.9
Catawba $55 million
Tusculum $15.7 million
Virginia-Wise $108 million
Clarion $31 million
Edinboro $26.4
Bloomsburg ?
Kutztown $30.1
Millersville $30.43
Seton Hill $37.8

Plus UMES and Coppin State could be in the process at looking to add football. They need to add 4 schools then, and 1 more if South Carolina State leaves.

As much as I am a fan of IUP moving up, and I really am, btw, IUP stretches the footprint too much. Same with West Chester.
06-27-2020 12:44 PM
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Post: #28
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 11:25 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if the MEAC would drop the admission fee for VSU? That combined with a footprint that's now about as big as the CIAA's (which goes from South Carolina to Pennsylvania) might be tempting. ...

Worth a shot, I guess ... since they'd save the baseball autobid and put the MEAC one over the minimum for FB to meet the men's team sports requirement, they'd basically immunize the MEAC from losing one FB, non baseball school, IOW, SC State, Howard, or Morgan State.

Seems like if they are talking about "expanding to twelve", they'd pretty much have to slash the entry fee.
06-27-2020 12:50 PM
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Post: #29
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
I don't see anyone other than schools wanting to move up from the CIAA having any interest at all in the MEAC. Those schools would always have a place to move back down and would be moving to a similar geography. Anybody else would be moving to a conference of schools very different from them.

I think there is as close to zero% chance as possible that they get anyone outside CIAA. And in the Covid environment, I doubt we see any new moveups for the next couple of years. MEAC has to hope nobody else leaves.
06-27-2020 01:58 PM
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Post: #30
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  I don't see anyone other than schools wanting to move up from the CIAA having any interest at all in the MEAC. Those schools would always have a place to move back down and would be moving to a similar geography. Anybody else would be moving to a conference of schools very different from them.

I think there is as close to zero% chance as possible that they get anyone outside CIAA. And in the Covid environment, I doubt we see any new moveups for the next couple of years. MEAC has to hope nobody else leaves.

I agree with this, except I think we have hit the critical point where every school left in the MEAC thinks one of his brothers will jump, so they will try to get ahead of the inevitable and find their own home first.

The June 30th deadline is a bit meaningless if one or two more jump even after for the '21 season, as that brings the MEAC below 6 Football. If two jump the MEAC even loses multisport designation, meaning it's done. Honestly I think once one goes, two or three more will go in short order.

This looks like a repeat of the WAC, but without any Great West or orphaned Independents or D-II move ups to recruit as replacements.
06-27-2020 02:48 PM
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Post: #31
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 02:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The June 30th deadline is a bit meaningless if one or two more jump even after for the '21 season, as that brings the MEAC below 6 Football. If two jump the MEAC even loses multisport designation, meaning it's done. Honestly I think once one goes, two or three more will go in short order.

With B-C gone they have Basketball at eight, FB at six, baseball at five, no other men's team sports. At present, their multi-sport conference designation hangs on FB ... and no multi-sport designation, no NCAA tourney autobid.

The open question is how many have landing spots ... three can't jump if only two can find spots.

Meanwhile, I am still thinking what I was thinking when the biggest surprise move of 2020 poll was posted:
(06-15-2020 11:23 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  I'm not voting, since I think the biggest surprise move of 2020 may be yet to come.

For instance, if the NEC and/or the ASUN between themselves raid the MEAC into oblivion, I'm thinking that would jump into contention as biggest surprise move of 2020.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 03:38 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-27-2020 03:33 PM
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RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 04:05 PM by THUNDERStruck73.)
06-27-2020 04:02 PM
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RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
Lenoir-Rhyne and Wingate might make the move to D1. They are not in that much of a debt unlike the schools that are in their conference. Both North Carolina private schools.
06-27-2020 04:19 PM
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RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State is an HBCU, but the vast majority of their current student body is white.
06-27-2020 04:54 PM
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RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State are not a black school anymore, never mind it is HBCU designated for it's origins. Demographics and integration have turned it into the state's generic 2nd public school (65% White, 14% Black, 10% two or more races, 10% decline to state -- probably mostly White). I am a bit surprised that has not yet happened to Delaware State (75% Black, 11% White, 6% Hispanic, 5% two or more, 1% Asian), especially given UDel is over 60% out of state students, limiting the placements to only 1,600 per year for local kids.

I'm sure DavidSt will throw out a ton of names. But nobody is going to move up (St. Thomas aside) in the next few years due to Covid-19.
06-27-2020 05:02 PM
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RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-26-2020 10:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So the MEAC is spending some of the tiny amount of money they do have to pay someone to look around and tell them that no one is interested in joining their failing league.

The commissioner’s critical error isn’t hiring a consulting firm itself, it’s who he’s hiring.

This is when you need a visionary with unrivaled knowledge of D2’s to rebuild your conference. Instead, DavidSt is left sitting on the unemployment line.

The inability of this dinosaur Dr Thomas to hire DavidSt will be what seals his league’s fate.
06-27-2020 06:16 PM
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Post: #37
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
I'm having a hard time seeing a path for continued existence for the MEAC. Let's say somehow they get Virginia State to move up. Then what? That still only puts them at 9 members overall, 7 for football. Every legacy member is going to still be looking for a way out. Howard should have a good shot at the CAA, Patriot, or at least the NEC. Del. State is looking at the NEC. Surely, Norfolk State, NCCU, and SC State are looking at the ASUN and/or the Big South. Why would any of that change if Va. State joins?

As someone else has said, unlike the case with the WAC a little under a decade ago, there is no Great West upon which to reload with members. Nor is there a list if D2 schools who'd be willing to jump onto a sinking ship.
06-27-2020 06:26 PM
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Post: #38
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 05:02 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 04:02 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Another potential target could be WV State. Right now they’re in Division II, but they’re an HBCU. Or perhaps the University of Charleston.

WV State are not a black school anymore, never mind it is HBCU designated for it's origins. Demographics and integration have turned it into the state's generic 2nd public school (65% White, 14% Black, 10% two or more races, 10% decline to state -- probably mostly White). I am a bit surprised that has not yet happened to Delaware State (75% Black, 11% White, 6% Hispanic, 5% two or more, 1% Asian), especially given UDel is over 60% out of state students, limiting the placements to only 1,600 per year for local kids.

I'm sure DavidSt will throw out a ton of names. But nobody is going to move up (St. Thomas aside) in the next few years due to Covid-19.

Wouldn't that be Marshall?
06-27-2020 06:27 PM
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Post: #39
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 07:06 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Zoom Q&A with MEAC Commissioner and Howard President




Having gotten around to watching it, Howard’s president is all-in on saving the MEAC. He may as well be the commissioner - he takes the lead on all questions and gives elaborate answers. On the other hand, the actual commissioner sounds like he’s on drugs and has trouble putting sentences together.
06-27-2020 07:20 PM
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Post: #40
RE: MEAC Commissioner: The goal is a conference with 12 football-playing members
(06-27-2020 12:44 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They said none HBCUs could be targets.

Indiana, PA. $65 million endowment
West Chester $45 million
Gannon $63 million
Shippensberg $40.2 million
Carson-Newman $57.5 million
Lenoir-Rhyne $113 million
Mars Hill $50 million
Wingate $90 million
Bowie State $8.1
Fayetteville State $19 million
Virginia State $47.4
Virginia Union $29 million
Winston-Salem $42.3
Charleston $28.1 million
Frostburg State $22.3 million
UNC-Pembroke $24.9
Catawba $55 million
Tusculum $15.7 million
Virginia-Wise $108 million
Clarion $31 million
Edinboro $26.4
Bloomsburg ?
Kutztown $30.1
Millersville $30.43
Seton Hill $37.8

Plus UMES and Coppin State could be in the process at looking to add football. They need to add 4 schools then, and 1 more if South Carolina State leaves.

As much as I am a fan of IUP moving up, and I really am, btw, IUP stretches the footprint too much. Same with West Chester.

No Shepherd? They might be the only WV school (Playing in PSAC) that may eventually consider it.
06-27-2020 07:29 PM
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