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ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
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XLance Offline
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Post: #61
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 11:35 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  It'll be interesting to see if they continue expansion. I think at 14 with the issues we're seeing how long it takes traditional rivals in conference to play each other there could be a push for it to go to the pod system. Adding West Virginia and UCF fills in area's of the ACC's footprint that currently aren't there, gain additional content for the ACCn, going to the pod system allows the ACC to keep classic rivalries prevalent, adding 2 football first programs will help strengthen the ACC's football profile.

Northeast Pod: BC, Cuse, Pitt, WV
Mid Atlantic Pod: Virginia, VT, Louisville, Clemson
Tobacco Row Pod: UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest
Sunshine Pod: FSU, Miami, GT, UCF

Clemson having to jump over the NC schools so they can have their own pod is the only geographic hiccup.

Is Florida the right place for the ACC to be?
It's a long way to get from Atlanta to the Florida border and Georgia Tech's marketing reach doesn't extend very far south of the Metro area.
06-27-2020 07:39 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Big East stupidly did not realize this, so pursued a policy of "peaceful coexistence" with the ACC, and that's why its football wing is now the AAC - ironically, just as good as the ACC was on the football field last year, but getting paid about 1/15 as much for it.

There's more to it than stupidity, though ... given its structure, pursuing the strengthening of it's football wing risked defection of its basketball wing, and so it was caught in a classic "PC Jr" problem where the forward looking strategy is sabotaged by the protection of the current market stronghold.

Always cannibalize your own business as soon as you can. Do it before someone else does it for (to) you.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 07:58 AM by quo vadis.)
06-27-2020 07:57 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate. 07-coffee3

If Maryland had stayed in the ACC or if UCONN had replaced them, another train would have arrived from the B-12 to rescue them and it would have been driven by Oklahoma. The big question is who would be on the "FINAL and LAST" train to the B-12 with them.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 08:29 AM by panite.)
06-27-2020 08:27 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 08:27 AM)panite Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate. 07-coffee3

If Maryland had stayed in the ACC or if UCONN had replaced them, another train would have arrived from the B-12 to recuse them and it would have been driven by Oklahoma. The big question is who would be on the "FINAL and LAST" train to the B-12 with them.

None of us will ever know, but I don't think that had Maryland remained in the B1G, or if the ACC had chosen UConn to replace them, that Louisville would have been selected by the Big 12. There just was IMO no movement at all in that direction at that time, late 2012. I think UofL would be, today, in the AAC had Maryland not taken the B1G invite.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2020 08:30 AM by quo vadis.)
06-27-2020 08:30 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 09:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

So it seems Rutgers was in the same category.

Louisville worked to save itself. Rutgers got lucky because of a TV market that made cable TV money for the B10 Network. They have the largest subsidy from the schools budget to play football in the P-5.

Rutgers also poured money into its FB stadium additions and other sports facilities like L'Ville to get on the brass ring express like L'Ville. Rutgers also had the support of Penn State over the years for inclusion into the B-10. Money and friends in important places also help. 07-coffee3
06-27-2020 08:35 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 09:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

But it certainly wasn't academics and it certainly wasn't "behavior." Pitino and Petrino? If somehow the Big 12 had taken Lousiville, WVU would now be in the ACC.

WV would still be in the B-12 if L'Ville as a package. The question is who would have been number 12. UConn would have grabbed the last brass ring to the ACC then. 07-coffee3
06-27-2020 08:39 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #67
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 08:35 AM)panite Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

So it seems Rutgers was in the same category.

Louisville worked to save itself. Rutgers got lucky because of a TV market that made cable TV money for the B10 Network. They have the largest subsidy from the schools budget to play football in the P-5.

Rutgers also poured money into its FB stadium additions and other sports facilities like L'Ville to get on the brass ring express like L'Ville. Rutgers also had the support of Penn State over the years for inclusion into the B-10. Money and friends in important places also help. 07-coffee3

Rutgers did invest a lot, but UConn did as well, for all the good it did them. And I would say that at the time the decision to invite Rutgers was tendered, Penn State's influence in the halls of the B1G was at a nadir. They were busy taking down Joe Paterno statues and removing his name from the trophy.

Bottom line for me is that when it came down to Rutgers and UConn it probably was a close call for the B1G and who knows what the deciding factors were, you probably had to be sitting around the conference table at the time to know for sure. I suspect it boiled down to some football fundamentals - Rutgers had a bigger stadium, closer access to NYC (the real prize), much more fertile recruiting grounds, and a larger football fan base in the area. Rutgers also was fortunate to be playing better football on the field than UConn around the time the decision was made, despite UConn's 2010 Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Of course, since Rutgers football has been about as putrid the past 5 years as UConn football, it reads funny talking about them having a football advantage over anyone, but that's how it was in 2012.
06-27-2020 08:48 AM
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 08:35 AM)panite Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

So it seems Rutgers was in the same category.

Louisville worked to save itself. Rutgers got lucky because of a TV market that made cable TV money for the B10 Network. They have the largest subsidy from the schools budget to play football in the P-5.

Rutgers also poured money into its FB stadium additions and other sports facilities like L'Ville to get on the brass ring express like L'Ville. Rutgers also had the support of Penn State over the years for inclusion into the B-10. Money and friends in important places also help. 07-coffee3

Rutgers did invest a lot, but UConn did as well, for all the good it did them. And I would say that at the time the decision to invite Rutgers was tendered, Penn State's influence in the halls of the B1G was at a nadir. They were busy taking down Joe Paterno statues and removing his name from the trophy.

Bottom line for me is that when it came down to Rutgers and UConn it probably was a close call for the B1G and who knows what the deciding factors were, you probably had to be sitting around the conference table at the time to know for sure. I suspect it boiled down to some football fundamentals - Rutgers had a bigger stadium, closer access to NYC (the real prize), much more fertile recruiting grounds, and a larger football fan base in the area. Rutgers also was fortunate to be playing better football on the field than UConn around the time the decision was made, despite UConn's 2010 Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Of course, since Rutgers football has been about as putrid the past 5 years as UConn football, it reads funny talking about them having a football advantage over anyone, but that's how it was in 2012.

While a bottom-dweller, I always see Rutgers as an original football school - like, played in the first game ever - and has a long football history much more related (in time) to the B1G. Also, they are AAU.
06-27-2020 09:12 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Big East stupidly did not realize this, so pursued a policy of "peaceful coexistence" with the ACC, and that's why its football wing is now the AAC - ironically, just as good as the ACC was on the football field last year, but getting paid about 1/15 as much for it.

There's more to it than stupidity, though ... given its structure, pursuing the strengthening of it's football wing risked defection of its basketball wing, and so it was caught in a classic "PC Jr" problem where the forward looking strategy is sabotaged by the protection of the current market stronghold.

The entire existence of Big East football was a bad marriage between the schools that played FBS football and the schools that didn't.

Like a lot of bad marriages, the no-FBS schools probably wished that they hadn't gotten married in the first place, and also could point to a few incidents along the way where they now wish they would have gotten a divorce at the time instead of sticking it out for many more years.
06-27-2020 12:53 PM
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 11:35 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  It'll be interesting to see if they continue expansion. I think at 14 with the issues we're seeing how long it takes traditional rivals in conference to play each other there could be a push for it to go to the pod system. Adding West Virginia and UCF fills in area's of the ACC's footprint that currently aren't there, gain additional content for the ACCn, going to the pod system allows the ACC to keep classic rivalries prevalent, adding 2 football first programs will help strengthen the ACC's football profile.

Northeast Pod: BC, Cuse, Pitt, WV
Mid Atlantic Pod: Virginia, VT, Louisville, Clemson
Tobacco Row Pod: UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest
Sunshine Pod: FSU, Miami, GT, UCF

Clemson having to jump over the NC schools so they can have their own pod is the only geographic hiccup.

That's almost the worst divisional setup I've ever seen, only topped by sticking us in a division with all four NC schools.

And UCF is never getting in the ACC.
06-27-2020 01:09 PM
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 08:39 AM)panite Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

But it certainly wasn't academics and it certainly wasn't "behavior." Pitino and Petrino? If somehow the Big 12 had taken Lousiville, WVU would now be in the ACC.

WV would still be in the B-12 if L'Ville as a package. The question is who would have been number 12. UConn would have grabbed the last brass ring to the ACC then. 07-coffee3

Cincy. UConn was only getting in the ACC if the football first schools left.
06-27-2020 01:11 PM
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otown Offline
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
Who is gonna replace? A G5 commissioner? An AD? TV exec?
06-27-2020 04:27 PM
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-26-2020 09:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 01:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  How did Jurich get Louisville from C-USA to the ACC? Money baby. LOTS of it. Truckloads of it.

Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

So it seems Rutgers was in the same category.

Louisville worked to save itself. Rutgers got lucky because of a TV market that made cable TV money for the B10 Network. They have the largest subsidy from the schools budget to play football in the P-5.

Because they are getting peanuts compared to the rest of the B1G, thats why we have the highest subsidy. We play in one of the toughest divisions in CFB while getting paid closer to an AAC team than a B1G team.

We also did plenty to get into the B1G. Lots of spending on facilities across the board. Lots of folks like to think we just stumbled upon a B1G invite. You're free to think that just like you're free to think the world is flat, vaccines are bad for you and Trumps face is naturally orange.
06-27-2020 07:50 PM
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 10:39 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 10:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Swofford would be better remembered had he sold his membership on East Coast unity in 2004 and instead of leaving Big East football to die a slow and painful death, pushed his 9 members to add the 7 full Big East schools (no Temple) for a 16 team super league.

North: BC, Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, M’land, WVU, VT, Miami
South: UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU

I can't argue with that. For one, that's a really strong league in a lot of respects. Secondly, it would have demonstrated vision rather than desperation.

There was too much hemming and hawing over what Big East products were helpful. Too much snobbery.

Let's not also forget that some of the missteps along the way created a situation where a founding member in Maryland felt the need to leave. Contrast that with your idea and had it been completed early enough then who knows, perhaps both Notre Dame and Penn State would have been attracted to the ACC?

I suppose it could have been worse for the ACC, but the league was pretty close to collapse before they signed their GOR. I see no reason to think Swofford as anything more than a fairly inept example of middle-management. ESPN mostly told him what to do and he didn't do a great job of leading the schools under him.

Both statements above are all wrong. From its founding, the ACC had only two schools that really emphasized football...Clemson and Maryland. Duke had taken football seriously historically, but by the 1950s their focus had shifted to basketball and Olympic sports. Over time, even Maryland transitioned to much more of a basketball-first school (thanks largely to great success by Lefty Driesell and Gary Williams). Basketball preeminence was an addictive drug that gave the ACC the best media rights payouts into the 1990s. The challenge for ACC commissioners for decades has been to focus more support for football.

I understand your point, but by the early 2000s, it was clear the ACC needed a new path. That's exactly what they tried to put together with Miami, VT, and BC(who used to be regarded as a better football product than they are now). With that said, it's obvious Swofford didn't really fix the problem.

His vision came down to an incremental expansion of football prowess rather than capitalizing on the issues within the Big East. In other words, he didn't manage the situation very well.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  By the time Swofford became commissioner, the ship had sailed on Penn State (it was already in the BIG) and his predecessors had solidified football by adding Georgia Tech and FSU.

I know Penn State was already in the Big Ten, but there are reasons they could have been interested in the ACC had the league played their cards right. Too many of the ACC's decisions were short-sighted.

I'll give you credit for Florida State, especially snatching them away from the SEC's clutches, but Georgia Tech has never been a prime football product even though it's a football first school. They're a good addition to the ACC, but Swofford should have taken the 9 team foundation that had been laid and had his eye set more on the future.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  “East Coast unity” nor “ESPN told him” where hardly Swofford’s vision nor approach. Swofford had to transform the ACC into a football first conference. I would argue that when Maryland unexpectedly left and Louisville was chosen over UConn, Swofford’s legacy was confirmed.

Swofford’s weakness has been his lack of skill in negotiating for better payouts...basically, leveraging his assets for financial stability. College athletics has become a big business and Swofford was very conservative in adapting to the changing landscape.

Isn't that basically what I said? He was tasked with managing and didn't perform at a high level. The world was changing around him and he didn't know how to handle it.

Sure, ESPN told him what to do. That's basically what the Boston College AD said when they added Syracuse and Pittsburgh. ESPN has had a hand in a lot of decisions the last 20 years or so. They are the ones paying the bills after all so it's not a conspiracy. It's basic business.

Even then, the ACC has been particularly vulnerable to their influence due to weaker ratings AND the fact their markets are so split. With a little more foresight, Swofford or someone else could have realized that they could have increased their leverage by absorbing every decent product in the Big East at one time. That would have provided leverage...it would have also added quite a few decent basketball products at one time. It wasn't necessary to turn every school into a football factory.

Trying to change the culture of multiple schools is a poor plan, it's not going to happen. He just needed to convince a few schools to invest in football more while simultaneously adding some schools with punch.

Now it may be true that Louisville is more of a football first school than Maryland, but the Big Ten is a football first league and people at UMD were happy to be in a conference that focused resources on that sport. Mostly, it was a financial decision for them. In other words, it wasn't a matter of Maryland bucking against any effort to focus on football in the ACC. It was a matter that the ACC had been so poorly managed that it was no longer tenable for them.

And to Louisville, they got in because a few of the football powers threatened to revolt unless it happened. That doesn't come back to Swofford being a good manager...just the opposite.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  It’s crazy to blame him for not getting Penn State or Notre Dame (he also didn’t get Ohio State nor UGA...but maybe they weren’t in play). It’s naive to suggest that he just followed ESPN’s guidance (the ACC has made horrible TV deals...including propping up Raycom to the detriment of ESPN and financial payouts).

The Raycom deal was straight nepotism. Now, it might be fair to say that wasn't in the best interest of ESPN, but it wasn't in the best interest of the ACC either. Once again, Swofford mismanaged the situation.

I'm not really blaming him for not landing ND or Penn State. What I'm saying is that he made a series of poor decisions over a long period of time that removed the ACC's ability to possibly acquire those schools. Consistently poor TV contracts will keep quality schools from being interested.

Your point about his inability to make quality TV deals simply underscores my point. ESPN makes more money if they pay less for their product. If you have a leader in Swofford who doesn't understand the landscape then your league probably gets taken advantage of by a corporate entity that doesn't interest itself in much of anything more than profit.
06-27-2020 09:19 PM
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Post: #75
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 08:35 AM)panite Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 08:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not only that, but even with the truckloads of money that the YUM Center deal and their boosters provided, Louisville was still the sixth and last Big East team to get a rescue to a P5. They didn't leave on the last train out, by the time they were picked up the last train had seemingly already left, and inexplicably someone ordered a special diesel to go back and scoop them up from G5 purgatory. They scored that saving goal deep in stoppage time.

IOW's, a big dollop of luck in addition to a big dollop of money. That might be hard for any current G to duplicate.

So it seems Rutgers was in the same category.

Louisville worked to save itself. Rutgers got lucky because of a TV market that made cable TV money for the B10 Network. They have the largest subsidy from the schools budget to play football in the P-5.

Rutgers also poured money into its FB stadium additions and other sports facilities like L'Ville to get on the brass ring express like L'Ville. Rutgers also had the support of Penn State over the years for inclusion into the B-10. Money and friends in important places also help. 07-coffee3

Rutgers did invest a lot, but UConn did as well, for all the good it did them. And I would say that at the time the decision to invite Rutgers was tendered, Penn State's influence in the halls of the B1G was at a nadir. They were busy taking down Joe Paterno statues and removing his name from the trophy.

Bottom line for me is that when it came down to Rutgers and UConn it probably was a close call for the B1G and who knows what the deciding factors were, you probably had to be sitting around the conference table at the time to know for sure. I suspect it boiled down to some football fundamentals - Rutgers had a bigger stadium, closer access to NYC (the real prize), much more fertile recruiting grounds, and a larger football fan base in the area. Rutgers also was fortunate to be playing better football on the field than UConn around the time the decision was made, despite UConn's 2010 Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Of course, since Rutgers football has been about as putrid the past 5 years as UConn football, it reads funny talking about them having a football advantage over anyone, but that's how it was in 2012.

The Big 10 had been talking about Rutgers since the 90s. When Notre Dame accepted and then turned around and rejected their invitation, they publicly said they were looking at Kansas, Missouri and Rutgers. They decided to stay put at 11 at that point.
06-27-2020 09:34 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #76
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Big East stupidly did not realize this, so pursued a policy of "peaceful coexistence" with the ACC, and that's why its football wing is now the AAC - ironically, just as good as the ACC was on the football field last year, but getting paid about 1/15 as much for it.

There's more to it than stupidity, though ... given its structure, pursuing the strengthening of it's football wing risked defection of its basketball wing, and so it was caught in a classic "PC Jr" problem where the forward looking strategy is sabotaged by the protection of the current market stronghold.

The entire existence of Big East football was a bad marriage between the schools that played FBS football and the schools that didn't.

Like a lot of bad marriages, the no-FBS schools probably wished that they hadn't gotten married in the first place, and also could point to a few incidents along the way where they now wish they would have gotten a divorce at the time instead of sticking it out for many more years.

Actually, the years that were supposed to be the worst, the years after VT and Miami and BC left - turned out to be very good Big East years.

From 2004 - 2011, Big East football was far more competitive than anyone thought it would be, and basketball thrived, being arguably the best conference during that time.

Circa 2010, the Big East was a pretty stable conference despite its different branches of schools, and was competitive to boot.
06-28-2020 09:43 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #77
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-28-2020 09:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Big East stupidly did not realize this, so pursued a policy of "peaceful coexistence" with the ACC, and that's why its football wing is now the AAC - ironically, just as good as the ACC was on the football field last year, but getting paid about 1/15 as much for it.

There's more to it than stupidity, though ... given its structure, pursuing the strengthening of it's football wing risked defection of its basketball wing, and so it was caught in a classic "PC Jr" problem where the forward looking strategy is sabotaged by the protection of the current market stronghold.

The entire existence of Big East football was a bad marriage between the schools that played FBS football and the schools that didn't.

Like a lot of bad marriages, the no-FBS schools probably wished that they hadn't gotten married in the first place, and also could point to a few incidents along the way where they now wish they would have gotten a divorce at the time instead of sticking it out for many more years.

Actually, the years that were supposed to be the worst, the years after VT and Miami and BC left - turned out to be very good Big East years.

From 2004 - 2011, Big East football was far more competitive than anyone thought it would be, and basketball thrived, being arguably the best conference during that time.

Circa 2010, the Big East was a pretty stable conference despite its different branches of schools, and was competitive to boot.

Interesting isn't it. For all the animus for the Big 10 or SEC on this board at times the only conference truly responsible for killing another one was the ACC and Swofford gave the kill shot, with ESPN's help of course.
06-28-2020 09:47 AM
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Post: #78
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
AllTideUp

Great points. My post was not really meant as a defense of Swofford. As a power conference commissioner, Swofford proved out the Peter Principle of management. He understood tactics (including the importance of football) but never developed a vision nor strategy. His TV contracts have been abysmal; and revenue generation is last (though it could/should be better). He never grew in the job and was not held accountable.

At his best, Swofford deserves a C rating for his tenure. He grew the conference around football. He held the conference together when it could have disintegrated. Faint praise for someone who has led the ACC for 23 years.

Unfortunately, the ACC has a deserved reputation as the country club. UMD (James), UVA (Corrigan) and UNC (Swafford) have alternated the leadership selections. Swofford’s tenure should have ended after 10 years...at most. After 10 years, it’s university presidents that deserve most of the blame for the lack of vision and strategy. Labeling Swafford as “inept” seems too harsh...but I do agree that he was too frequently ill-equipped for his responsibilities and opportunities.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 08:16 AM by Wahoowa84.)
06-28-2020 10:27 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #79
RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 10:39 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-26-2020 10:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Swofford would be better remembered had he sold his membership on East Coast unity in 2004 and instead of leaving Big East football to die a slow and painful death, pushed his 9 members to add the 7 full Big East schools (no Temple) for a 16 team super league.

North: BC, Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, M’land, WVU, VT, Miami
South: UVA, UNC, NC St, Duke, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU

I can't argue with that. For one, that's a really strong league in a lot of respects. Secondly, it would have demonstrated vision rather than desperation.

There was too much hemming and hawing over what Big East products were helpful. Too much snobbery.

Let's not also forget that some of the missteps along the way created a situation where a founding member in Maryland felt the need to leave. Contrast that with your idea and had it been completed early enough then who knows, perhaps both Notre Dame and Penn State would have been attracted to the ACC?

I suppose it could have been worse for the ACC, but the league was pretty close to collapse before they signed their GOR. I see no reason to think Swofford as anything more than a fairly inept example of middle-management. ESPN mostly told him what to do and he didn't do a great job of leading the schools under him.

Both statements above are all wrong. From its founding, the ACC had only two schools that really emphasized football...Clemson and Maryland. Duke had taken football seriously historically, but by the 1950s their focus had shifted to basketball and Olympic sports. Over time, even Maryland transitioned to much more of a basketball-first school (thanks largely to great success by Lefty Driesell and Gary Williams). Basketball preeminence was an addictive drug that gave the ACC the best media rights payouts into the 1990s. The challenge for ACC commissioners for decades has been to focus more support for football.

I understand your point, but by the early 2000s, it was clear the ACC needed a new path. That's exactly what they tried to put together with Miami, VT, and BC(who used to be regarded as a better football product than they are now). With that said, it's obvious Swofford didn't really fix the problem.

His vision came down to an incremental expansion of football prowess rather than capitalizing on the issues within the Big East. In other words, he didn't manage the situation very well.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  By the time Swofford became commissioner, the ship had sailed on Penn State (it was already in the BIG) and his predecessors had solidified football by adding Georgia Tech and FSU.

I know Penn State was already in the Big Ten, but there are reasons they could have been interested in the ACC had the league played their cards right. Too many of the ACC's decisions were short-sighted.

I'll give you credit for Florida State, especially snatching them away from the SEC's clutches, but Georgia Tech has never been a prime football product even though it's a football first school. They're a good addition to the ACC, but Swofford should have taken the 9 team foundation that had been laid and had his eye set more on the future.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  “East Coast unity” nor “ESPN told him” where hardly Swofford’s vision nor approach. Swofford had to transform the ACC into a football first conference. I would argue that when Maryland unexpectedly left and Louisville was chosen over UConn, Swofford’s legacy was confirmed.

Swofford’s weakness has been his lack of skill in negotiating for better payouts...basically, leveraging his assets for financial stability. College athletics has become a big business and Swofford was very conservative in adapting to the changing landscape.

Isn't that basically what I said? He was tasked with managing and didn't perform at a high level. The world was changing around him and he didn't know how to handle it.

Sure, ESPN told him what to do. That's basically what the Boston College AD said when they added Syracuse and Pittsburgh. ESPN has had a hand in a lot of decisions the last 20 years or so. They are the ones paying the bills after all so it's not a conspiracy. It's basic business.

Even then, the ACC has been particularly vulnerable to their influence due to weaker ratings AND the fact their markets are so split. With a little more foresight, Swofford or someone else could have realized that they could have increased their leverage by absorbing every decent product in the Big East at one time. That would have provided leverage...it would have also added quite a few decent basketball products at one time. It wasn't necessary to turn every school into a football factory.

Trying to change the culture of multiple schools is a poor plan, it's not going to happen. He just needed to convince a few schools to invest in football more while simultaneously adding some schools with punch.

Now it may be true that Louisville is more of a football first school than Maryland, but the Big Ten is a football first league and people at UMD were happy to be in a conference that focused resources on that sport. Mostly, it was a financial decision for them. In other words, it wasn't a matter of Maryland bucking against any effort to focus on football in the ACC. It was a matter that the ACC had been so poorly managed that it was no longer tenable for them.

And to Louisville, they got in because a few of the football powers threatened to revolt unless it happened. That doesn't come back to Swofford being a good manager...just the opposite.

(06-27-2020 06:18 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  It’s crazy to blame him for not getting Penn State or Notre Dame (he also didn’t get Ohio State nor UGA...but maybe they weren’t in play). It’s naive to suggest that he just followed ESPN’s guidance (the ACC has made horrible TV deals...including propping up Raycom to the detriment of ESPN and financial payouts).

The Raycom deal was straight nepotism. Now, it might be fair to say that wasn't in the best interest of ESPN, but it wasn't in the best interest of the ACC either. Once again, Swofford mismanaged the situation.

I'm not really blaming him for not landing ND or Penn State. What I'm saying is that he made a series of poor decisions over a long period of time that removed the ACC's ability to possibly acquire those schools. Consistently poor TV contracts will keep quality schools from being interested.

Your point about his inability to make quality TV deals simply underscores my point. ESPN makes more money if they pay less for their product. If you have a leader in Swofford who doesn't understand the landscape then your league probably gets taken advantage of by a corporate entity that doesn't interest itself in much of anything more than profit.

This post is absolute 04-bs.
06-28-2020 10:58 AM
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UTEPDallas Online
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RE: ACC Commissioner John Swofford to retire
(06-27-2020 04:27 PM)otown Wrote:  Who is gonna replace? A G5 commissioner? An AD? TV exec?

Aresco, come on down!

If Tom Jurich didn’t leave Louisville like he did, he would’ve been an excellent choice.
06-28-2020 01:12 PM
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