Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Alternate History: Save the SWC
Author Message
CitrusUCF Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,316
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 160
I Root For: UCF
Location: NW Ark.
Post: #1
Alternate History: Save the SWC
Scenario:

In 1990, Texas Governor Bill Clements surprisingly decides to seek reelection despite being involved in SMU's pay-to-play scandal. He stunningly wins reelection over State Treasurer Ann Richards.

As the Southwest Conference breaks up, SMU finds itself with an ally in Austin.

Despite the Governor on their side, SMU's woes since the death penalty are too much to overcome in joining the Big 12, and SMU sees Baylor and Texas Tech join the Big 12 thanks to the influence of Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock (a graduate of both institutions) along with Texas and Texas A&M.

Nevertheless, Governor Clements is willing to expend considerable political capital to ensure his Ponies remain in a major conference. He twists the arm of the Cotton Bowl to ensure that the Southwest Conference retains the bowl in an annual game against the Big 12.

The remaining SWC schools: SMU, TCU, Houston, & Rice, must decide how to proceed in rebuilding the SWC as a power conference. Phone calls flood in from members of the WAC, the Big West, & the independent ranks (including schools committed to joining the new CUSA).

As the new SWC commissioner, make your recommendations for ensuring that the Southwest Conference retains its spot as a major conference in the Bowl Coalition and the successor being negotiated, the Bowl Alliance.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 10:37 PM by CitrusUCF.)
06-24-2020 10:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 3,585
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 113
I Root For: p-natal vitamin
Location: prenatal vitamins
Post: #2
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Tulane was long a target of the SEC, so they probably would be my first call. Tulsa would be #2. This might be seen as controversial, but I would go after the University of New Mexico. UTEP would also be invited but more for basketball. Southern Miss definitely gets an invitation, and the tenth member would be up for debate. Even back then, it would be very difficult to rebuild the SWC back into a power conference.
06-24-2020 11:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 32,452
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 1555
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-24-2020 11:11 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Tulane was long a target of the SEC, so they probably would be my first call. Tulsa would be #2. This might be seen as controversial, but I would go after the University of New Mexico. UTEP would also be invited but more for basketball. Southern Miss definitely gets an invitation, and the tenth member would be up for debate. Even back then, it would be very difficult to rebuild the SWC back into a power conference.

Here are the Independents in 1995---Louisville, Cincinnati, S Miss, Army, Navy, Tulsa, Memphis, NE Louisiana, N Texas, and Tulane. The conferences in existence at the time were the ACC, Big East, Big Eight, Big Ten, Big West, MAC, Pac-10, WAC, and SEC.

So, realistically, the SWC orphans really only had a a shot of attracting indy teams, Big West outliers, or WAC eastern teams. Of the indy teams, only Tulane, S Miss, Tulsa, Memphis, N Texas, and NE Louisiana were reasonably in the footprint.

Personally, I suspect the best strategy would be to go after BYU. Build around that with Utah and the WAC front range schools (Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico, Wyoming). That gets you to 10. With that---you'd have 4 SWC schools. A school that was national champ within the last decade (BYU)--and another having a title that was a little over a decade old (though SMU's NC was tainted at this point). Four state flagship schools and an academy. Thats not bad---and 10 is all you really needed. You could add 2 of S Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, and Memphis if you wanted to get to 12--but it wasnt really necessary.

Thus, to me, your most attractive rebuilt SWC option would be (assuming they would accept)---

Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
BYU
Colorado St
Utah
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming

Reasonably coherent geography. Not really a bad conference given the set pieces available at the time.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 01:02 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-25-2020 12:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jedclampett Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,920
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 80
I Root For: Temple
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Cincy and Louisville went on to become members of a power conference. Tulane was a former member of the SEC and an AAU school. Memphis had good attendance and plenty of potential.

West Division:

SMU
TCU
BYU
Utah
Colorado St
Air Force

South-Central Division:


Houston
Rice
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 01:33 AM by jedclampett.)
06-25-2020 01:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 32,452
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 1555
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 01:31 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Cincy and Louisville went on to become members of a power conference. Tulane was a former member of the SEC and an AAU school. Memphis had good attendance and plenty of potential.

West Division:

SMU
TCU
BYU
Utah
Colorado St
Air Force

South-Central Division:


Houston
Rice
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati

True, but keep in mind, we only know what they know in 1995. In 1995, Cinci and Louisville were horrific football programs—not to mention they stretch the geography. I think you stick at 10. That said, those schools are the less football oriented “Plan B” if the BYU/eastern WAC strategy fails to gain traction among the invitees. You’d be stuck with what you could scrape together among the eastern Indy’s and Big West outliers. Basically if the WAC schools say no—-you end up fairly close to the way history actually played out—-a sort of mashup of CUSA 1.0 and 2.0.

Houston
TCU
SMU
Rice
S Miss
LaTech
Memphis
Cinci
Louisville
Tulane
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:29 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-25-2020 02:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Carolina_Low_Country Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,253
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 87
I Root For: Go Pirates
Location: ENC
Post: #6
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
Tulane
Memphis
Southern Miss
UTEP
New Mexico

More of a regional CUSA but that’s probably what you get back then. I could see Louisiana Tech and North Texas involved in the future. That conference is oils actually have some good rivalries.

Biggest difference would be what happens to the CUSA East schools at that point. Do they stay independent? I think you are an eastern conference start down the line with:
Cincinnati
Louisville
Temple
Marshall
East Carolina
UAB
UCF
USF
Army*
Navy*
Plus basketball schools of Charlotte, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette
Would not be surprised to see a MAC school, App State/Ga Southern, MTSU, or even a Villanova for football only brought up back then. Marshall, UCF, UAB and USF would already have been move ups or new start ups. A lot of the CUSA and Sun Belt team weren’t around back then
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:50 AM by Carolina_Low_Country.)
06-25-2020 02:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Carolina_Low_Country Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,253
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 87
I Root For: Go Pirates
Location: ENC
Post: #7
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference
06-25-2020 02:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,007
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 147
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
If the SWC held together and part of their rebuild involved raiding the WAC, the top replacements for the WAC would have been the Big West’s UNLV, San Jose St, Nevada, Utah St, and New Mexico St. (Boise St, Idaho St, and UNT hadn’t moved up yet)

I also see Tulsa and Tulane being probable candidates too.

What I think we’d see happening is the Sunbelt starting football up a little earlier and a few programs like Cincinnati, Louisville, and Memphis either holding on to independence a little longer and/or starting C-USA football up without Tulane and Houston.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 09:35 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
06-25-2020 06:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CitrusUCF Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,316
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 160
I Root For: UCF
Location: NW Ark.
Post: #9
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
My proposal is:

East:

Rice
Houston
TCU
SMU
Air Force
New Mexico

West:

Colorado State
BYU
Utah
UNLV
Wyoming
San Diego State

That gets you a football power in BYU, large TV markets, schools with growth potential, a few state flagships, and strong basketball with UNLV and UNM especially. I could be talked into Tulsa over Wyoming or UNLV though.
06-25-2020 08:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
whittx Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 679
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 25
I Root For: FSU, Bport,Corn
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:49 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
Tulane
Memphis
Southern Miss
UTEP
New Mexico

More of a regional CUSA but that’s probably what you get back then. I could see Louisiana Tech and North Texas involved in the future. That conference is oils actually have some good rivalries.

Biggest difference would be what happens to the CUSA East schools at that point. Do they stay independent? I think you are an eastern conference start down the line with:
Cincinnati
Louisville
Temple
Marshall
East Carolina
UAB
UCF
USF
Army*
Navy*
Plus basketball schools of Charlotte, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette
Would not be surprised to see a MAC school, App State/Ga Southern, MTSU, or even a Villanova for football only brought up back then. Marshall, UCF, UAB and USF would already have been move ups or new start ups. A lot of the CUSA and Sun Belt team weren’t around back then

I would take LaTech getting an invite at some point. UCF went FBS in 1996, USF was a startup in 1997. Troy might have gotten some love too.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 09:16 AM by whittx.)
06-25-2020 09:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,007
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 147
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
I’m inclined to say they don’t go to the Pacific Coast so Hawaii, Fresno St, and San Diego St are all out.

That leaves Utah, BYU, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming, UNM, and UTEP from the WAC and let’s toss in Tulane and Tulsa as candidates too.

Now, we have to ask ourselves how big does the SWC want to go? 9, 10, or 12.

I’m going to say at a minimum 5 of those WAC schools go over.

Utah, BYU, Colorado St, and two of AFA/UNM/UTEP/Wyo

Here’s a couple 12 member looks:

East: Tulane, Rice, Houston, SMU, TCU, Tulsa
West: Utah, BYU, Colo St, AFA, Wyo, UTEP/UNM

OR

East: Tulane/Tulsa, Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, UTEP
West: UNM, AFA, Colo St, Wyo, Utah, BYU

WAC: Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno St, UNLV, Nevada, SJSU, Utah St, NMSU and maybe 2 of AFA/UTEP/UNM/Wyo
06-25-2020 10:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


schmolik Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 718
Joined: Sep 2019
Reputation: 22
I Root For: UIUC, PSU, Nova
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Post: #12
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).
06-25-2020 10:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 32,452
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 1555
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #13
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).

Actually, they never tried---mainly because they couldnt agree on who to invite---and--best I can tell---Houston had, at best, minimal interest in staying tied to the same small private schools they internally believed had likely been the "tattle tales" that triggered so many NCAA investigation into SWC teams. Between the avalanche of NCAA investigations and all the backstabbing that had occurred during the Big-8 "merger" negotiations---I think the Houston administration lacked trust in their remaining SWC mates and believed their best path forward would be to join forces with other large public schools if at all possible. As a football fan, I wanted to rebuild the SWC around the remaining teams---but I can also understand why the Houston administration at that time may not have valued that path as much as I did. I mean---we could have all stayed together and moved to the WAC---and that was my second choice if we were not going to rebuild the SWC. At least UH could maintain some ties to the SWC---but the Houston administration passed on that WAC package deal option as well---so, that tends to support my view that the UH administration just had little interest in maintaining those ties at the time.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 11:08 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-25-2020 10:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CitrusUCF Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,316
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 160
I Root For: UCF
Location: NW Ark.
Post: #14
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).

Yes, historically this is accurate. The WAC was a stronger conference than the SWC at that point. That's why I wrote the scenario about the SWC keeping the Cotton Bowl bid and thus still being tied in with what a Bowl Coalition game, though it ended up outside of the Bowl Alliance. If the SWC still has the Cotton Bowl, it's in a stronger position than the WAC.

To me, the linchpin is BYU. My feeling is that in this scenario, BYU would have valued the opportunity to be in the Cotton Bowl and the legitimacy that would give. If BYU goes, Utah goes, and then the rest of the WAC is up for grabs.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 11:11 AM by CitrusUCF.)
06-25-2020 11:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,007
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 147
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #15
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).

This is all hypothetical of course. You’re probably right in that the 4 left behind weren’t strong enough on their own.

If Rice, SMU, and TCU had been attractive enough as a package deal the WAC would have had the votes to get them added without 3 extra schools tacked on (most of the yes votes came from the West Coast schools who pushed to get UNLV and San Jose St in the deal). The WAC core all voted no on the WAC-16 expansion and those no votes were the ones who organized the airport meeting.

Maybe letting that trio a sojourn as independents for a couple years would have allowed C-USA and the WAC some time to put things in perspective and come up with a better plan.

Had SMU and TCU not stuck up for Rice I could see those two going as a pair together somewhere (without causing a catastrophic realignment chain reaction like the WAC-16 did).
06-25-2020 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUstang Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,553
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation: 92
I Root For: SMU Mustangs
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Post: #16
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 11:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).

This is all hypothetical of course. You’re probably right in that the 4 left behind weren’t strong enough on their own.

If Rice, SMU, and TCU had been attractive enough as a package deal the WAC would have had the votes to get them added without 3 extra schools tacked on (most of the yes votes came from the West Coast schools who pushed to get UNLV and San Jose St in the deal). The WAC core all voted no on the WAC-16 expansion and those no votes were the ones who organized the airport meeting.

Maybe letting that trio a sojourn as independents for a couple years would have allowed C-USA and the WAC some time to put things in perspective and come up with a better plan.

Had SMU and TCU not stuck up for Rice I could see those two going as a pair together somewhere (without causing a catastrophic realignment chain reaction like the WAC-16 did).

Remember SMU was just coming off the death penalty and TCU was horrible in football. Rice was probably the strongest of the trio.
06-25-2020 11:26 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


bullet Online
Legend
*

Posts: 41,765
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 1468
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Hard to see without Arkansas.
06-25-2020 11:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DFW HOYA Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,094
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 85
I Root For: The Hoyas
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #18
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
This doesn't work because SMU wasn't one of the core elements of the conference that could have kept it together.

Every conference has one or two schools that are the underpinnings of a league: Michigan and Ohio State in the Big 10, USC and UCLA in the Pac-12, Harvard and Yale in the Ivy, Georgetown and Syracuse in the pre-2013 Big East. ESPN extracted the Orangemen out of the conference cloth but Georgetown was able to keep it viable. And if Duke and UNC left the ACC, would it still have the same weight behind it?

The SWC was built around Texas, Texas A&M, and to a lesser but underrated part, Arkansas. Without those three it collapsed of its own weight.
06-25-2020 12:22 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUstang Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,553
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation: 92
I Root For: SMU Mustangs
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Post: #19
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 12:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 11:11 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Tulane was long a target of the SEC, so they probably would be my first call. Tulsa would be #2. This might be seen as controversial, but I would go after the University of New Mexico. UTEP would also be invited but more for basketball. Southern Miss definitely gets an invitation, and the tenth member would be up for debate. Even back then, it would be very difficult to rebuild the SWC back into a power conference.

Here are the Independents in 1995---Louisville, Cincinnati, S Miss, Army, Navy, Tulsa, Memphis, NE Louisiana, N Texas, and Tulane. The conferences in existence at the time were the ACC, Big East, Big Eight, Big Ten, Big West, MAC, Pac-10, WAC, and SEC.

So, realistically, the SWC orphans really only had a a shot of attracting indy teams, Big West outliers, or WAC eastern teams. Of the indy teams, only Tulane, S Miss, Tulsa, Memphis, N Texas, and NE Louisiana were reasonably in the footprint.

Personally, I suspect the best strategy would be to go after BYU. Build around that with Utah and the WAC front range schools (Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico, Wyoming). That gets you to 10. With that---you'd have 4 SWC schools. A school that was national champ within the last decade (BYU)--and another having a title that was a little over a decade old (though SMU's NC was tainted at this point). Four state flagship schools and an academy. Thats not bad---and 10 is all you really needed. You could add 2 of S Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, and Memphis if you wanted to get to 12--but it wasnt really necessary.

Thus, to me, your most attractive rebuilt SWC option would be (assuming they would accept)---

Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
BYU
Colorado St
Utah
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming

Reasonably coherent geography. Not really a bad conference given the set pieces available at the time.

Attackcoog's lineup for a rebuilt SWC would be good. It may well come to pass, in some form, in the future as the western division of the AAC. TCU and Utah would obviously be out, and Rice probably wouldn't be included. But the other teams could get together. Or maybe add Boise State and San Diego State for a great 9 team stand alone conference. Of course Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, and Navy might have something to say about that.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:09 PM by SMUstang.)
06-25-2020 01:49 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,007
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 147
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location:
Post: #20
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 12:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This doesn't work because SMU wasn't one of the core elements of the conference that could have kept it together.

Every conference has one or two schools that are the underpinnings of a league: Michigan and Ohio State in the Big 10, USC and UCLA in the Pac-12, Harvard and Yale in the Ivy, Georgetown and Syracuse in the pre-2013 Big East. ESPN extracted the Orangemen out of the conference cloth but Georgetown was able to keep it viable. And if Duke and UNC left the ACC, would it still have the same weight behind it?

The SWC was built around Texas, Texas A&M, and to a lesser but underrated part, Arkansas. Without those three it collapsed of its own weight.

Imagine if, decades ago, Texas, TAMU, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska had decided to form a league together.

Add in some supporting pieces and they could have been great. Unlike the shotgun wedding that the Big 12 was they’d have a long shared history together.
06-25-2020 01:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.