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Alternate History: Save the SWC
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texoma Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive. Even Houston shied away from staying with the private schools after the SWC folded.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:06 PM by texoma.)
06-25-2020 01:56 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Baylor was doing fine at the time.
06-25-2020 02:03 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Well if you assume Arkansas was still there. Big 10 went to 14 as they talked about with Rutgers, Kansas and Missouri. Pac 10 takes Colorado. Then maybe OU joins the SWC and you get:
SWC south-Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, Baylor, Arkansas
SWC north-Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Nebraska.

Or maybe 14 with Iowa St. and KSU with Texas Tech moving South.
06-25-2020 02:10 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

That doesn’t solve the main issues that killed the SWC though:

Not enough markets, not enough major brands, too many pigs eating from the same trough, too many small schools making zero effort and just cashing checks
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:18 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-25-2020 02:16 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Baylor was doing fine at the time.

Baylor was just surviving. The only time in modern football history Baylor had any success was due to the incredible coaching skills of Grant Teaff. What about SMU, TCU and Rice.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 02:35 PM by texoma.)
06-25-2020 02:33 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Well if you assume Arkansas was still there. Big 10 went to 14 as they talked about with Rutgers, Kansas and Missouri. Pac 10 takes Colorado. Then maybe OU joins the SWC and you get:
SWC south-Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, Baylor, Arkansas
SWC north-Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Nebraska.

Or maybe 14 with Iowa St. and KSU with Texas Tech moving South.

But Arkansas was not there and the Big10 did not go to 14 then and the PAC had not taken Colorado and OU didn't join the SWC.

That is a lame argument of assumptions and you still have the issue with the private schools who contribute nothing to the bottom line and have to be fed. OU would have to be crazy to join a conference that Arkansas, Texas and A&M are desperate to get out of.
06-25-2020 02:55 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Easy: Go after the WAC schools.
BYU
Utah
Wyoming
Colorado St
Air Force
New Mexico

Pass on Tulane and and Tulsa.
Cincy, Louisville and Memphis are too far away and weren’t good at FB at that time. (Howard S. quit Louisville)
06-25-2020 03:03 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 10:59 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 10:45 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I just couldn't have seen the remaining SWC teams (Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice) being strong enough to attract enough teams to "save" it. We are talking about just four teams here and the WAC was pretty strong with BYU a lot stronger than it is now. That's why three of the SWC teams left for it. I couldn't see the SWC raiding the WAC. Maybe the Metro/Conference USA could have grabbed more than just Houston from the SWC and that might have worked better for them geographically (SMU eventually wound up in the AAC with Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, etc).

Actually, they never tried---mainly because they couldnt agree on who to invite---and--best I can tell---Houston had, at best, minimal interest in staying tied to the same small private schools they internally believed had likely been the "tattle tales" that triggered so many NCAA investigation into SWC teams. Between the avalanche of NCAA investigations and all the backstabbing that had occurred during the Big-8 "merger" negotiations---I think the Houston administration lacked trust in their remaining SWC mates and believed their best path forward would be to join forces with other large public schools if at all possible. As a football fan, I wanted to rebuild the SWC around the remaining teams---but I can also understand why the Houston administration at that time may not have valued that path as much as I did. I mean---we could have all stayed together and moved to the WAC---and that was my second choice if we were not going to rebuild the SWC. At least UH could maintain some ties to the SWC---but the Houston administration passed on that WAC package deal option as well---so, that tends to support my view that the UH administration just had little interest in maintaining those ties at the time.

Those privates were "down and out" in a way that we don't think about them now with all the facility improvements they've had since the 90's.

That was another piece to the perception going with the large publics was a better idea for Houston.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 03:25 PM by Kit-Cat.)
06-25-2020 03:23 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive. Even Houston shied away from staying with the private schools after the SWC folded.

That's why the SWC didn't make it and the teams joined WAC or CUSA.

Today though its successor the XII is in a different position as a P5 conference with a more northern range that makes Memphis and Cincinnati good additions.
06-25-2020 03:29 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:33 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Baylor was doing fine at the time.

Baylor was just surviving. The only time in modern football history Baylor had any success was due to the incredible coaching skills of Grant Teaff. What about SMU, TCU and Rice.

The last 17 years in the SWC, Baylor had 2 titles and 12 winning seasons. Their worst season was 4-6-1. Every other year they had at least 5 wins.

That's not just surviving. Oklahoma from 1994-1998 went 5 years without a winning season. That was how many Baylor went over 17 years.
06-25-2020 04:01 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:55 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Well if you assume Arkansas was still there. Big 10 went to 14 as they talked about with Rutgers, Kansas and Missouri. Pac 10 takes Colorado. Then maybe OU joins the SWC and you get:
SWC south-Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, Baylor, Arkansas
SWC north-Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Nebraska.

Or maybe 14 with Iowa St. and KSU with Texas Tech moving South.

But Arkansas was not there and the Big10 did not go to 14 then and the PAC had not taken Colorado and OU didn't join the SWC.

That is a lame argument of assumptions and you still have the issue with the private schools who contribute nothing to the bottom line and have to be fed. OU would have to be crazy to join a conference that Arkansas, Texas and A&M are desperate to get out of.

That is one of the dumbest posts of the day. The whole thread is a hypothetical. Do you not comprehend that? I made my assumptions and one specific one was that Arkansas had to be there.
06-25-2020 04:04 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
A viable SWC going forward

TULSA
TCU
SMU
UTEP
HOUSTON
TAMU
TECH
RICE
BAYLOR
TULANE
LA TECH
ARKANSAS
06-25-2020 05:34 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 04:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:55 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:59 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The old SWC really should have just stole Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 8. What really happened is the Big 8 stole from the SWC and they just started a new conference with the same name. The SWC with OU and OSU could have brought back Arkansas who would not be the orphan Annie of the conference anymore.
SWC
NORTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Arkansas
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech

SOUTH
Baylor
Texas
Texas A&M
Rice
Houston
Tulane

The remaining Big 8 probably gets taken down like it already did. I could see Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, and Missouri going to the Big Ten to form the first 16 team conference

Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Well if you assume Arkansas was still there. Big 10 went to 14 as they talked about with Rutgers, Kansas and Missouri. Pac 10 takes Colorado. Then maybe OU joins the SWC and you get:
SWC south-Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, Baylor, Arkansas
SWC north-Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Nebraska.

Or maybe 14 with Iowa St. and KSU with Texas Tech moving South.

But Arkansas was not there and the Big10 did not go to 14 then and the PAC had not taken Colorado and OU didn't join the SWC.

That is a lame argument of assumptions and you still have the issue with the private schools who contribute nothing to the bottom line and have to be fed. OU would have to be crazy to join a conference that Arkansas, Texas and A&M are desperate to get out of.

That is one of the dumbest posts of the day. The whole thread is a hypothetical. Do you not comprehend that? I made my assumptions and one specific one was that Arkansas had to be there.

Excuse me, but my post was not dumb. A dumb post is one that tries to justify an hypothesis with assumptions that are totally unrealistic and avoids the real issue.....that being the the fact that the private schools were not contributing any thing to the conference and the networks were not interested in them.
06-25-2020 05:53 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
Honestly if the SWC was to rebuild I think SMU would have been left out.

TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, USM, CSU, Memphis, Louisville, Cincy, UAB
06-25-2020 06:53 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 06:53 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Honestly if the SWC was to rebuild I think SMU would have been left out.

TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, USM, CSU, Memphis, Louisville, Cincy, UAB

Excuse me, who is CSU? And how are they and Rice and USM any better than SMU? And UAB didn't even exist when the SWC broke up. That's a typical northeasterner for you, he knows nothing about the schools in Texas.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 07:21 PM by SMUstang.)
06-25-2020 07:18 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 05:53 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 04:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:55 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 01:56 PM)texoma Wrote:  Bad idea all around.

No way would OU and OSU join the SWC. The SWC was dead already. Why do you think Arkansas left.

Texas and A&M were desperate to get away from the private schools. Why do you think they were good to join the Big8.

The private schools were bad. Darrell Royal talked about how the private schools needed to get better or else. I remember an interview with Chuck Curtis the former TCU head football coach saying he thought TCU might have to have to drop football. TCU, SMU, Baylor and Rice were all struggling just to survive.

Well if you assume Arkansas was still there. Big 10 went to 14 as they talked about with Rutgers, Kansas and Missouri. Pac 10 takes Colorado. Then maybe OU joins the SWC and you get:
SWC south-Texas, Texas A&M, Houston, Rice, Baylor, Arkansas
SWC north-Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Nebraska.

Or maybe 14 with Iowa St. and KSU with Texas Tech moving South.

But Arkansas was not there and the Big10 did not go to 14 then and the PAC had not taken Colorado and OU didn't join the SWC.

That is a lame argument of assumptions and you still have the issue with the private schools who contribute nothing to the bottom line and have to be fed. OU would have to be crazy to join a conference that Arkansas, Texas and A&M are desperate to get out of.

That is one of the dumbest posts of the day. The whole thread is a hypothetical. Do you not comprehend that? I made my assumptions and one specific one was that Arkansas had to be there.

Excuse me, but my post was not dumb. A dumb post is one that tries to justify an hypothesis with assumptions that are totally unrealistic and avoids the real issue.....that being the the fact that the private schools were not contributing any thing to the conference and the networks were not interested in them.

Again, you miss the point of the whole thread.
06-25-2020 08:45 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 02:33 PM)texoma Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 02:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  Baylor was doing fine at the time.

Baylor was just surviving. The only time in modern football history Baylor had any success was due to the incredible coaching skills of Grant Teaff. What about SMU, TCU and Rice.

I won’t deny that Rice was in a dark place in the 1980s. But Ken Hatfield was head football coach when the SWC disbanded and he had the Owls on the upswing. This came right after Fred Goldsmith had back to back 6-5 seasons. Hatfield beat Texas in 1994, finishing in the infamous multi-team tie for 1st with the Aggies ineligible, and posted 7-4 records in the first two years in the WAC.
06-25-2020 09:34 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
In late 1990, Arkansas had given notice to go to the SEC in 1992. I remember when the SWC spoke with Louisville and Tulane about coming into the SWC. I thought it was a joke...if you're expecting 1990's Louisville and Tulane to save your conference, you're already close to death's door.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm...story.html

Sure, Howard Schnellenberger had built Louisville's FB program, and won 10 games and a trip to the Fiesta Bowl in 1990 (granted, a lot of schools were boycotting that bowl that year over Arizona's refusal to observe the MLK holiday, but U of L had improved their program). Howard eventually took the OU job in 1995 in what turned out to be a colossal one-year mismatch for both parties.

The SWC was beyond saving. UT and A&M were tired of subsidizing the other schools. The Big 8 needed markets. UT and A&M needed a better deal. A&M already wanted to go to the SEC, but the politicians said no, so they came on board. Ann Richards (Baylor grad) was governor, and Bob Bullock (Tech grad) was lieutenant governor. They forced UT and A&M to accept Tech and Baylor as part of the package. There was nothing wrong with Tech in the first place, and they were politically well-connected. Baylor had the best program of the private schools at the time. The Big 12 needed 12 teams for a championship game, and Tech and Baylor were schools 11 and 12. In 1994, it turned out like it was supposed to turn out.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2020 09:56 PM by johnintx.)
06-25-2020 09:56 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
(06-25-2020 09:56 PM)johnintx Wrote:  In late 1990, Arkansas had given notice to go to the SEC in 1992. I remember when the SWC spoke with Louisville and Tulane about coming into the SWC. I thought it was a joke...if you're expecting 1990's Louisville and Tulane to save your conference, you're already close to death's door.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm...story.html

Sure, Howard Schnellenberger had built Louisville's FB program, and won 10 games and a trip to the Fiesta Bowl in 1990 (granted, a lot of schools were boycotting that bowl that year over Arizona's refusal to observe the MLK holiday, but U of L had improved their program). Howard eventually took the OU job in 1995 in what turned out to be a colossal one-year mismatch for both parties.

The SWC was beyond saving. UT and A&M were tired of subsidizing the other schools. The Big 8 needed markets. UT and A&M needed a better deal. A&M already wanted to go to the SEC, but the politicians said no, so they came on board. Ann Richards (Baylor grad) was governor, and Bob Bullock (Tech grad) was lieutenant governor. They forced UT and A&M to accept Tech and Baylor as part of the package. There was nothing wrong with Tech in the first place, and they were politically well-connected. Baylor had the best program of the private schools at the time. The Big 12 needed 12 teams for a championship game, and Tech and Baylor were schools 11 and 12. In 1994, it turned out like it was supposed to turn out.

Great post....but New Mexico and BYU could’ve been added instead for fresh markets. Both were on the upswing and played solid basketball at the time as well. Big 8 needed contiguous markets and UNM and BYU provided that.
Then the 6 team SWC could have added 2 Eastern schools like Louisville and either Tulsa/Tulane for two new markets.
That maybe would’ve saved the SWC.
06-25-2020 11:32 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Alternate History: Save the SWC
This would have been way ahead of its time, but I would have approached the Pac 10 for a merger:

North - Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State
Coastal - UCLA, Southern California, California, Stanford
Mountain - Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
South - TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice

This would require some reforms that aren't even in place today with regards to conference championships, but getting everyone a conference game in Texas every year would be huge.

The Big 8/12 replaces Colorado with Colorado State.

The WAC, which lost Utah and Colorado State, and can't invite all of TCU, SMU, and Rice, now no longer has any need to invite Tulsa. The WAC stays at 10 teams for 1996. They add Nevada and Boise State for the 2000 season, forcing Big West football to collapse a year sooner.

Tulsa replaces Houston in Conference USA. Without SMU, Houston, and Rice in 2005, UTEP waita until 2014 to leave the WAC for C-USA in and is replaced by New Mexico State. WKU winds up becoming a permanent replacement for UAB after UAB drops football. UAB re-emerged as a member of the Sun Belt in 2017.

The Sun Belt keeps Louisiana Tech longer, but eventually loses them to C-USA, at which time they finally invite Louisiana-Monroe from FCS.

The Big 12 loses Nebraska to the Big 10, and Missouri and Texas A&M to the SEC effective with the 2012 season. They then are able to raid TCU and Houston from the Pac 16 (now Pac 14), and still take West Virginia from the Big East. The Big East responds by inviting SMU and Rice; Temple doesn't leave the Atlantic 10/MAC until 2014. BYU goes independent, and is replaced in the WAC by Utah State in 2012.
06-26-2020 12:17 AM
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