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OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
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JoeJag Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 10:24 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 08:51 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 08:00 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 05:54 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  Part of the complaint was that he told them to go inside for a meeting.

Good Lord.


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He said Vic called him a retard on the field during practice, frequently quotes the bible, believes the wall should be built to keep Hispanics out, and that protesters deserve tear gas if they're stupid enough to be out there.

It depends on whether he said those things verbatim, and not exaggerations of what he actually said. We see soon though.

It's worth nothing the player has made a claim that his old high school coach referred to Vic's coaching style as that of a "Slave Master", to coach the high school coach firmly denies making the statement.

While the verbal abuse allegation is troubling the bold part is just his opinion if true so hardly worth being suspended for. After all can we not have different opinions on immigration and protesting.

You can't in today's climate. Pisses me off.

Bunch of wussies.
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06-24-2020 10:39 AM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
I don't want any racists in any of our institutions... but this player's tweet of what happened was SUCH a reach. The comment about Hispanics and the comment about protesters being teargassed, I understand. But something tells me the player has twisted this situation to match his personal narrative. There has apparently been a history of this player not liking VK.

Telling a player to get upstairs for a meeting is nothing out of the ordinary. To imply that Koenning said that in a way that the players were his "property" is absolutely ridiculous. That situation also plays into the comment of his high school coach supposedly saying Koenning is a "slave master"... but there's no context here... which is now ANOTHER stretch, because many of us have heard people use terms like that, or even "slave driver", to describe how a boss/coach makes his employees/players work hard at what they're doing.

I myself am from a "snowflake" generation (millennial), but I can see this isn't a totally clear story being presented here.
06-24-2020 11:01 AM
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GoBigRed26 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
Courts currently employ a three-part test to determine whether a government employee’s speech is protected by the First Amendment.

1) First of all, government employees are only protected by the First Amendment when they are speaking as private citizens. If their speech is part of their official job duties, then they can be fired or disciplined for it.

This rule comes from a 2006 Supreme Court case, Garcetti v. Ceballos. Obviously, it isn’t always easy to differentiate when a government employee is speaking as a private citizen, and when they are speaking as a government employee.

The Supreme Court has provided very little guidance in this area. Garcetti established that an employee’s official duties are not limited to the employee’s official job description. Thus far, the Supreme Court has only specified one situation where Garcetti does not apply: in Lane v. Franks, the Court held that an employee is not speaking pursuant to his official duties when he gives sworn testimony that is compelled by subpoena.

The Garcetti decision means that many government employees who are performing whistle-blowing functions–meaning, disclosing information about a government agency violating the law, wasting money, or abusing its authority–are not protected by the First Amendment, since reporting misconduct is often part of an employee’s official duties. Although there are state and federal laws that are specifically meant to protect whistleblowers from being fired, demoted, or otherwise retaliated against by the agencies they work for, many have criticized the Garcetti decision for depriving most whistleblowers of First Amendment protection.

2) If a government employee was speaking as a private citizen, the next question is, was their speech regarding a matter of public concern? If they weren’t speaking on a matter of public concern, the First Amendment will not protect their speech. If they were speaking on a matter of public concern, the First Amendment might protect their speech. (There’s still a test to go after that.)

Speech is considered to regard a matter of public concern if it relates to a social, political or community issue. While speech touching on corruption or racial discrimination in a workplace tends to be viewed as relating to matters of public concern, at least one federal appeals court (the 11th Circuit) has held that speech pertaining to sexual harassment is a matter of private concern. The definition of public concern has been interpreted widely by different circuit courts, so the definition might vary depending on where the case has been brought.

The Supreme Court established this as a necessary element for a government employee’s speech to be protected by the First Amendment in Pickering v. Board of Education. In a later case, Connick v. Myers, the Supreme Court instructed that the question of whether an employee’s speech addresses a matter of public concern should be determined by looking at the content, form, and context of a given statement, as revealed by the whole record, and not by applying a common, standardized rule. The Court also said that this was a question of law, meaning that it should be left to the court to decide, not a jury.

3) If a government employee was speaking as a private citizen on a matter of public concern, the next question is whether the government employer’s interest in efficiently fulfilling its public services is greater than the employee’s interest in speaking freely.

This test was also established by the Pickering and Connick cases.

The government employer has an interest in efficiently providing public services and maintaining good professional relationships within an office. Courts analyze the government employer’s interest by considering the following set of factors:

Whether the speech would interfere with the employee’s responsibilities;
The nature of the working relationship between the speaker and those at whom the criticism was directed;
Whether the relationship between the speaker and the person criticized was sufficiently close that the speech would create disharmonious relations in the workplace;
Whether the speech would undermine an immediate superior’s discipline over the employee; and
Whether the speech would compromise the loyalty and confidence required of close working employees.
When close working relationships are essential to fulfilling public responsibilities, a wide degree of deference is given to the government employer’s judgment. After a court considers each factor, it must weigh these factors against the employee’s interest in speaking out.

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/fi...,Ceballos.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 11:29 AM by GoBigRed26.)
06-24-2020 11:28 AM
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TroyFootball05 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 11:01 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  I don't want any racists in any of our institutions... but this player's tweet of what happened was SUCH a reach. The comment about Hispanics and the comment about protesters being teargassed, I understand. But something tells me the player has twisted this situation to match his personal narrative. There has apparently been a history of this player not liking VK.

Telling a player to get upstairs for a meeting is nothing out of the ordinary. To imply that Koenning said that in a way that the players were his "property" is absolutely ridiculous. That situation also plays into the comment of his high school coach supposedly saying Koenning is a "slave master"... but there's no context here... which is now ANOTHER stretch, because many of us have heard people use terms like that, or even "slave driver", to describe how a boss/coach makes his employees/players work hard at what they're doing.

I myself am from a "snowflake" generation (millennial), but I can see this isn't a totally clear story being presented here.

His latest tweet implies that this could have been handled in private.

(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 12:09 PM by TroyFootball05.)
06-24-2020 12:09 PM
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WolfBird Online
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Post: #25
OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 12:09 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 11:01 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  I don't want any racists in any of our institutions... but this player's tweet of what happened was SUCH a reach. The comment about Hispanics and the comment about protesters being teargassed, I understand. But something tells me the player has twisted this situation to match his personal narrative. There has apparently been a history of this player not liking VK.

Telling a player to get upstairs for a meeting is nothing out of the ordinary. To imply that Koenning said that in a way that the players were his "property" is absolutely ridiculous. That situation also plays into the comment of his high school coach supposedly saying Koenning is a "slave master"... but there's no context here... which is now ANOTHER stretch, because many of us have heard people use terms like that, or even "slave driver", to describe how a boss/coach makes his employees/players work hard at what they're doing.

I myself am from a "snowflake" generation (millennial), but I can see this isn't a totally clear story being presented here.

His latest tweet implies that this could have been handled in private.



Isn’t enjoyable for a 20 year old kid to remind an adult that they’ve lived their lives with incorrect thinking for longer than the kid has been alive?


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06-24-2020 12:33 PM
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eaglewraith Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 12:33 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 12:09 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 11:01 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  I don't want any racists in any of our institutions... but this player's tweet of what happened was SUCH a reach. The comment about Hispanics and the comment about protesters being teargassed, I understand. But something tells me the player has twisted this situation to match his personal narrative. There has apparently been a history of this player not liking VK.

Telling a player to get upstairs for a meeting is nothing out of the ordinary. To imply that Koenning said that in a way that the players were his "property" is absolutely ridiculous. That situation also plays into the comment of his high school coach supposedly saying Koenning is a "slave master"... but there's no context here... which is now ANOTHER stretch, because many of us have heard people use terms like that, or even "slave driver", to describe how a boss/coach makes his employees/players work hard at what they're doing.

I myself am from a "snowflake" generation (millennial), but I can see this isn't a totally clear story being presented here.

His latest tweet implies that this could have been handled in private.



Isn’t enjoyable for a 20 year old kid to remind an adult that they’ve lived their lives with incorrect thinking for longer than the kid has been alive?


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In some cases that's absolutely accurate.
06-24-2020 12:42 PM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
So not only his high school coach denies what was said, but now there are starting to be various black athletes coming out in support of VK on Twitter through comments.

Some things just aren't adding up.

This never should've been "handled" through social media in the first place. You go to the coaches first, then the school admin next, then maybe political leaders next, and handle it accordingly. If none of that works, then I could see where social media is your only route left... but that wasn't what happened here at all. You don't go and ruin a man's life by telling your piece on Twitter... and yes, it's going to likely ruin Koenning's life by destroying his career, reputation, personal relationships, and he's likely getting threats of some sort through online mediums... and he never even gets a chance to defend himself. Talk about an injustice.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 01:05 PM by CardinalBlackTrojan.)
06-24-2020 12:53 PM
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WolfBird Online
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Post: #28
OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 12:53 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  So not only his high school coach denies what was said, but now there are starting to be various black players coming out in support of VK on Twitter through comments.

Some things just aren't adding up.

This never should've been "handled" through social media in the first place. You go to the coaches first, then the school admin next, then maybe political leaders next, and handle it accordingly. If none of that works, then I could see where social media is your only route left... but that wasn't what happened here at all. You don't go and ruin a man's life by telling your piece on Twitter... and yes, it's going to likely ruin Koenning's life by destroying his career, reputation, personal relationships, and he's likely getting threats of some sort through online mediums... and he never even gets a chance to defend himself.


It was never about anything other than making sure he made himself a hero on Twitter.


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(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 01:04 PM by CardinalBlackTrojan.)
06-24-2020 12:54 PM
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_x_ Online
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
Its become pretty common the last couple weeks. This is the exact same situation as the Kaspar/Jaylen Shead investigation at TXST right now.

Airing your issues on social media is considered "brave" right now and everybody piles on to tell you how proud of you they are for speaking up. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing to do but it depends on what your "issue" is. I don't have much sympathy for Ben Roethlisberger's porn addiction quite frankly....
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 01:41 PM by _x_.)
06-24-2020 01:39 PM
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GoBigRed26 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 01:39 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Its become pretty common the last couple weeks. This is the exact same situation as the Kaspar/Jaylen Shead investigation at TXST right now.

Airing your issues on social media is considered "brave" right now and everybody piles on to tell you how proud of you they are for speaking up. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing to do but it depends on what your "issue" is. I don't have much sympathy for Ben Roethlisberger's porn addiction quite frankly....

Yeah, like with Mike Gundy's lake apparel.
06-24-2020 01:47 PM
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EigenEagle Online
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Post: #31
RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 12:54 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 12:53 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  So not only his high school coach denies what was said, but now there are starting to be various black players coming out in support of VK on Twitter through comments.

Some things just aren't adding up.

This never should've been "handled" through social media in the first place. You go to the coaches first, then the school admin next, then maybe political leaders next, and handle it accordingly. If none of that works, then I could see where social media is your only route left... but that wasn't what happened here at all. You don't go and ruin a man's life by telling your piece on Twitter... and yes, it's going to likely ruin Koenning's life by destroying his career, reputation, personal relationships, and he's likely getting threats of some sort through online mediums... and he never even gets a chance to defend himself.


It was never about anything other than making sure he made himself a hero on Twitter.


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It's either a snowflake that thinks any kind of criticism or any perceived wrong is is racism or it's someone exploiting a moral panic to try and take out a coach they've got a problem with. Hopefully the former.
06-24-2020 02:13 PM
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OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 02:13 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 12:54 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 12:53 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  So not only his high school coach denies what was said, but now there are starting to be various black players coming out in support of VK on Twitter through comments.

Some things just aren't adding up.

This never should've been "handled" through social media in the first place. You go to the coaches first, then the school admin next, then maybe political leaders next, and handle it accordingly. If none of that works, then I could see where social media is your only route left... but that wasn't what happened here at all. You don't go and ruin a man's life by telling your piece on Twitter... and yes, it's going to likely ruin Koenning's life by destroying his career, reputation, personal relationships, and he's likely getting threats of some sort through online mediums... and he never even gets a chance to defend himself.


It was never about anything other than making sure he made himself a hero on Twitter.


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It's either a snowflake that thinks any kind of criticism or any perceived wrong is is racism or it's someone exploiting a moral panic to try and take out a coach they've got a problem with. Hopefully the former.


I suspect it’s the former. Anyone got a depth chart from WVU handy?


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06-24-2020 02:16 PM
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UAB Schnauzer Offline
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 07:04 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  For the 10 billionth time, the 1st amendment only protects you from being thrown in jail by the government. It does not give you the right to say whatever you want to say all the time. There's nothing in the 1st amendment that says employers can't fire employees who are negatively affecting the business with their words and actions.

Liar! its on the 7th billionth time. but yeah if friggin sick of people claiming the 1st amendment should protect them from their own stupidity.
06-24-2020 09:30 PM
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 01:47 PM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 01:39 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Its become pretty common the last couple weeks. This is the exact same situation as the Kaspar/Jaylen Shead investigation at TXST right now.

Airing your issues on social media is considered "brave" right now and everybody piles on to tell you how proud of you they are for speaking up. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing to do but it depends on what your "issue" is. I don't have much sympathy for Ben Roethlisberger's porn addiction quite frankly....

Yeah, like with Mike Gundy's lake apparel.

Mike Gundy deserves what he gets for $h!**** where he eats. He makes his living off recruiting black players. this will be used against him in recruiting. this will cost him players and as a result eventually his job. Stillwater is not exactly a desirable location for black players. Hey I want to move to a small city that is less than 5% black during the prime dating period of my live.
06-24-2020 09:42 PM
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T2003 Offline
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-24-2020 09:42 PM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 01:47 PM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 01:39 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Its become pretty common the last couple weeks. This is the exact same situation as the Kaspar/Jaylen Shead investigation at TXST right now.

Airing your issues on social media is considered "brave" right now and everybody piles on to tell you how proud of you they are for speaking up. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing to do but it depends on what your "issue" is. I don't have much sympathy for Ben Roethlisberger's porn addiction quite frankly....

Yeah, like with Mike Gundy's lake apparel.

Mike Gundy deserves what he gets for $h!**** where he eats. He makes his living off recruiting black players. this will be used against him in recruiting. this will cost him players and as a result eventually his job. Stillwater is not exactly a desirable location for black players. Hey I want to move to a small city that is less than 5% black during the prime dating period of my live.

Dating shouldn't be an issue for D1 athletes. Doesn't matter if its Stillwater or Greenland, they always score.
06-25-2020 02:54 AM
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OsageJ Offline
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
Things just keep getting worse. Now someone just has to breathe wrong and they are guilty. The thing is this kid will never be held responsible if he is wrong.
06-25-2020 10:30 AM
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-25-2020 10:30 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  Things just keep getting worse. Now someone just has to breathe wrong and they are guilty. The thing is this kid will never be held responsible if he is wrong.

his teammates will hold him accountable if he is full of it. they will know.
06-25-2020 07:08 PM
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
Without having any insider info, he prob shouldn't call anyone retarded. The comments about Hispanics and protestors are professionally inappropriate. Not really something a someone in a position of power should be saying.
06-25-2020 07:30 PM
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-25-2020 07:30 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Without having any insider info, he prob shouldn't call anyone retarded. The comments about Hispanics and protestors are professionally inappropriate. Not really something a someone in a position of power should be saying.

i dont care about the retarded comment (I had special needs family members and was a special ed aid while in school) its football. he should be fired for the second part based on extreme stupidity. it will impact recruiting. so sorry get the hell out the door. i do not care if you agree or disagree those comment will cost them recruits. that will cost them games. that will get the head coach fired. if i am the head coach your ass put my job at risk and you just lost yours
06-25-2020 08:41 PM
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RE: OT: Former Troy DC Vic Koenning placed on leave
(06-25-2020 08:41 PM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  
(06-25-2020 07:30 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Without having any insider info, he prob shouldn't call anyone retarded. The comments about Hispanics and protestors are professionally inappropriate. Not really something a someone in a position of power should be saying.

i dont care about the retarded comment (I had special needs family members and was a special ed aid while in school) its football. he should be fired for the second part based on extreme stupidity. it will impact recruiting. so sorry get the hell out the door. i do not care if you agree or disagree those comment will cost them recruits. that will cost them games. that will get the head coach fired. if i am the head coach your ass put my job at risk and you just lost yours

You mean Troy can get Neal Brown back?
06-25-2020 08:47 PM
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