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Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:48 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 09:53 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I didn't if I could include these two or not, since they are G5-P5 clashes, but they actually meet the requirements, so I will list them:

SMU vs TCU: Battle for the Iron Skillet
Navy vs Notre Dame

If you're throwing in G5 vs P5 then you have to have UC vs Louisville - Keg of Nails

You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Who ended up with the Keg of Nails, anyway, and what do you reckon they aim to build with it? It'd be a darn shame for a good Keg of Nails to go to waste.

Louisville has it as they won the last meeting. UC led the all-time series 30-22. A side note of trivia, the original Keg which held nails disappeared a long time ago. It was replaced with a new Keg which does not actually contain any nails.
06-23-2020 10:29 AM
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TuckerGnat Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:48 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 09:53 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I didn't if I could include these two or not, since they are G5-P5 clashes, but they actually meet the requirements, so I will list them:

SMU vs TCU: Battle for the Iron Skillet
Navy vs Notre Dame

If you're throwing in G5 vs P5 then you have to have UC vs Louisville - Keg of Nails

You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Who ended up with the Keg of Nails, anyway, and what do you reckon they aim to build with it? It'd be a darn shame for a good Keg of Nails to go to waste.

Louisville has it as they won the last meeting. UC led the all-time series 30-22. A side note of trivia, the original Keg which held nails disappeared a long time ago. It was replaced with a new Keg which does not actually contain any nails.

Yes, when opened after the series ended, it was discovered to be nothing more than a keg of lowly grommets.
06-23-2020 10:35 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #43
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  A side note of trivia, the original Keg which held nails disappeared a long time ago. It was replaced with a new Keg which does not actually contain any nails.

So something may well have been built with the actual keg of nails, but whatever it is will remain a mystery.

The summer of reconfiguring the athletic department wing to create more offices:
"You find those boxes of nails?"
"No, but I found a whole bunch in this here keg."
06-23-2020 11:03 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #44
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 08:07 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The MAC and MWC have some of the best in-conference G5 rivalries because they’ve been together a long time.

The SBC, C-USA, and AAC schools don’t have quite as long together for the vitriol to fester.

That's an interesting perspective. I've always considered the Sun Belt's built-in rivalries to be one of the main selling points of our conference. App-GS, GS-GAST, Troy-USA, Ark St-ULL, ULL-ULM

The SBC is set up pretty nicely for rivalries. It might take a little time for some of them to grow. There are a lot of young programs.

There’s also some OOC opponents that have potential too:

Texas St vs UTSA
LA Tech vs ULL/ULM/Ark St (all 3 pretty much hate the Bulldogs)
UAB vs Troy/USA
Charlotte vs App St
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2020 11:08 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
06-23-2020 11:06 AM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
“The Battle for the Bell” Marshall- Ohio (Marshall leads 11-5 since moving to FBS)

“The Moonshine Throwdown” Marshall - Western Kentucky (Tied 3-3) WKU won in 2014 (spoiling Marshall’s undefeated season), 2015, and 2016. And Marshall has won the last three. It is a very young rivalry, but extremely emotionally charged.
06-23-2020 12:45 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-21-2020 09:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 08:59 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Use whatever criteria you think are important to name the premier Group of 5 football rivalries. I'm limiting this to rivalries that are still ongoing and not those broken up by realignment that aren't played anymore.

1. War on I-4 (UCF and USF, 11 games). People will disagree with me, but I consider the two schools peers in every respect except recent success, and as with a lot of rivalries in college football it'll only take the right (or wrong) coaching hires for the tide to turn in the series. Not a very old rivalry for sure, but one that's sure to become big IMO.

2. Georgia Southern - Appalachian State (doesn't have a name that's really caught on yet, 35 games). The two programs have a history in the FCS and won at least a share of 15 of the last 16 SoCon championships they were eligible before. A lot of intense games, a lot of upsets. (Georgia Southern has beaten App's only 2 teams to get ranked in the AP poll for example). Has been played every season since 1993 which would make it among the top in the G5 outside the MAC for consecutive games played.

3. Fresno State - San Diego State (Battle for the Oil Can, 59 games) Two top Mountain West programs with plenty of history, though the series has had long stretches were there was no game.

4. Bowling Green and Toledo (Battle of I-75 Trophy, 84 games) Probably one of the longest-running rivalries that has been played every year since 1948.

5. Western Michigan and Central Michigan (Battle for Victory Cannon) Another long-time MAC rivalry. Both teams have had their years though there haven't been a whole lot of big games.

Never heard of Georgia Southern and App State having a rivalry. But, you did forget the Shula Bowl (FAU/FIU).
Difference is App and GS have been good and hated each other for decades and FAU and FIU ....have not been good.

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06-23-2020 01:49 PM
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panama Offline
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  I remember on an old football game, Rice and Tulsa played for the Williams Trophy. I can’t find any real history about it.

Some annual games that jump out at me:

Air Force-Army-Navy
Air Force-CSU-Wyoming
App St.-GaSouthern (transcended to FBS)
BGSU-Toledo
Cincinnati-Miami (OH)
Houston-Rice (annual?)
LaTech-S. Miss
Nevada-UNLV
New Mexico-NMSU-UTEP (although UNM-UTEP isn’t annual anymore)
SMU-TCU (annual?)
UConn-UMass (I guess not technically G5, but I believe this will be annual)

I think Texas St.-UTSA should be played every season. As should Louisiana-USM/UL-LaTech. I think Georgia St.-UAB would be a good one as well. Rice should be in the AAC with Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa.
I want UAB because of proximity. But not sure they would generate the necessary hate.

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06-23-2020 01:52 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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Post: #48
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:06 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:48 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 09:53 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I didn't if I could include these two or not, since they are G5-P5 clashes, but they actually meet the requirements, so I will list them:

SMU vs TCU: Battle for the Iron Skillet
Navy vs Notre Dame

If you're throwing in G5 vs P5 then you have to have UC vs Louisville - Keg of Nails

You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Correct. It was a casualty of Louisville to the ACC. It was great for the 52 meetings it had though.

Some have mentioned UC-Miami-- I consider that a series not a rivalry. It hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade. UC has won 15 straight, mostly by large margins. The fan interest and school funding of the two programs is so far apart it is comical. The series is only still around because UC no longer plays another close rival (ie. Louisville, Pitt and WVU). Now I realize someone like Bullet or Miami (OH Yeah!) will remind people Miami leads the all-time series 58-59-- but neither of these two live in Greater Cincinnati and understand the dynamics at play. A lot has changed over the past 15 years. Even the large majority of Miami alums/students recognize this.

UC really doesn't have an active rival in football right now.

I think it makes sense from UC's perspective to just continue playing Miami not simply because of the rivalry. Rather, it seems like Cincy's formula for non-conference play (as with much of the AAC) is to play two P5's, one FCS, and a G5. That G5 game may as well be Miami. Why change to some other MAC, MW, C-USA, or SB team? Miami at least has a ton of history and some interest on both sides.
06-23-2020 11:15 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
A P5 example of a "series" not "rivalry" is Bedlam. OU OWNS OKST!
06-24-2020 03:03 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 03:03 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  A P5 example of a "series" not "rivalry" is Bedlam. OU OWNS OKST!

Another was Nebraska vs. Kansas. They played 117 times, but they're an example of why longevity of a series does not equal quality of a rivalry. Nebraska was 91-23-3 against Kansas, at one point winning 36 in a row.
06-24-2020 03:29 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #51
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 03:03 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  A P5 example of a "series" not "rivalry" is Bedlam. OU OWNS OKST!

Though Bedlam is a sports rivalry, not just a FB rivalry, and the series in other sports is not always as one sided. And it seems like Oklahoma State fans will take any Bedlam win they can get. "Oh, yeah, we beat you in Wrestling and Women's Volleyball this year!"
06-24-2020 07:43 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 03:03 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  A P5 example of a "series" not "rivalry" is Bedlam. OU OWNS OKST!

Though Bedlam is a sports rivalry, not just a FB rivalry ...

Oh come on man.

07-coffee3
06-24-2020 09:02 AM
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Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Offline
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
I know two of the service academies don't exactly fit into the G5 narrative, but the battle for the Commander-In-Chief's Trophy is one of the few rivalries I actually keep track of each year.

You'd think that either Army or Navy would have hoisted the trophy most in this rivalry, but it's actually the Air Force Academy who can boast of doing so. However, Navy certainly has been working hard to make that claim with series victories in 11 of the last 17 years.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020 09:09 AM by Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51.)
06-24-2020 09:09 AM
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MAcFroggy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:22 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:06 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:48 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 09:53 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I didn't if I could include these two or not, since they are G5-P5 clashes, but they actually meet the requirements, so I will list them:

SMU vs TCU: Battle for the Iron Skillet
Navy vs Notre Dame

If you're throwing in G5 vs P5 then you have to have UC vs Louisville - Keg of Nails


You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Correct. It was a casualty of Louisville to the ACC. It was great for the 52 meetings it had though.

Some have mentioned UC-Miami-- I consider that a series not a rivalry. It hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade. UC has won 15 straight, mostly by large margins. The fan interest and school funding of the two programs is so far apart it is comical. The series is only still around because UC no longer plays another close rival (ie. Louisville, Pitt and WVU). Now I realize someone like Bullet or Miami (OH Yeah!) will remind people Miami leads the all-time series 58-59-- but neither of these two live in Greater Cincinnati and understand the dynamics at play. A lot has changed over the past 15 years. Even the large majority of Miami alums/students recognize this.

UC really doesn't have an active rival in football right now.

The battle for the Iron Skillet stills goes on. SMU won the last game in Fort Worth.


Yeah, as a TCU fan I have a love/hate relationship with this game. For a long time it has seemed like a lose/lose situation for TCU. Either we win and everybody says "Of course you won. SMU isn't all that good", or we lose the game. However, Dykes is obviously turning SMU around. I think the game is on the upswing. TCU might start losing the game more frequently, but I am excited that the Iron Skillet will become important again.
06-24-2020 09:36 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 09:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 03:03 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  A P5 example of a "series" not "rivalry" is Bedlam. OU OWNS OKST!

Though Bedlam is a sports rivalry, not just a FB rivalry ...

Oh come on man.

07-coffee3

You should hear the Oklahoma State fans when they beat Oklahoma in basketball ... though it's true that happens more often in Stillwater than in Norman, Cowboy Basketball wins in Norman come more frequently than FB wins.

Heck, ESPN put Bedlam wrestling on ESPNU in February this year, for the atmosphere.
06-24-2020 09:56 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 09:36 AM)MAcFroggy Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:22 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:06 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  
(06-22-2020 12:48 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  If you're throwing in G5 vs P5 then you have to have UC vs Louisville - Keg of Nails


You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Correct. It was a casualty of Louisville to the ACC. It was great for the 52 meetings it had though.

Some have mentioned UC-Miami-- I consider that a series not a rivalry. It hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade. UC has won 15 straight, mostly by large margins. The fan interest and school funding of the two programs is so far apart it is comical. The series is only still around because UC no longer plays another close rival (ie. Louisville, Pitt and WVU). Now I realize someone like Bullet or Miami (OH Yeah!) will remind people Miami leads the all-time series 58-59-- but neither of these two live in Greater Cincinnati and understand the dynamics at play. A lot has changed over the past 15 years. Even the large majority of Miami alums/students recognize this.

UC really doesn't have an active rival in football right now.

The battle for the Iron Skillet stills goes on. SMU won the last game in Fort Worth.


Yeah, as a TCU fan I have a love/hate relationship with this game. For a long time it has seemed like a lose/lose situation for TCU. Either we win and everybody says "Of course you won. SMU isn't all that good", or we lose the game. However, Dykes is obviously turning SMU around. I think the game is on the upswing. TCU might start losing the game more frequently, but I am excited that the Iron Skillet will become important again.

This is a rivalry that has been going on for 99 years. TCU leads the series 51–41–7. SMU is finally learning from TCU's success. Dykes is a good head coach and smart.
06-24-2020 10:26 AM
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MAcFroggy Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-24-2020 10:26 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-24-2020 09:36 AM)MAcFroggy Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:22 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 10:06 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 09:20 AM)TuckerGnat Wrote:  You don't really have to have it, because it's no longer played.

Correct. It was a casualty of Louisville to the ACC. It was great for the 52 meetings it had though.

Some have mentioned UC-Miami-- I consider that a series not a rivalry. It hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade. UC has won 15 straight, mostly by large margins. The fan interest and school funding of the two programs is so far apart it is comical. The series is only still around because UC no longer plays another close rival (ie. Louisville, Pitt and WVU). Now I realize someone like Bullet or Miami (OH Yeah!) will remind people Miami leads the all-time series 58-59-- but neither of these two live in Greater Cincinnati and understand the dynamics at play. A lot has changed over the past 15 years. Even the large majority of Miami alums/students recognize this.

UC really doesn't have an active rival in football right now.

The battle for the Iron Skillet stills goes on. SMU won the last game in Fort Worth.


Yeah, as a TCU fan I have a love/hate relationship with this game. For a long time it has seemed like a lose/lose situation for TCU. Either we win and everybody says "Of course you won. SMU isn't all that good", or we lose the game. However, Dykes is obviously turning SMU around. I think the game is on the upswing. TCU might start losing the game more frequently, but I am excited that the Iron Skillet will become important again.

This is a rivalry that has been going on for 99 years. TCU leads the series 51–41–7. SMU is finally learning from TCU's success. Dykes is a good head coach and smart.

Agreed. I have a feeling you will be able to hold onto him for a while too. he is a Texas guy who has already had the opportunity to coach at the P5 level. So he will not be looking to jump ship for just any old P5 job. He was actually pretty successful at Cal too. However, I think having the ability compete annually in the AAC will be enough to keep him at SMU for a long time.
06-24-2020 10:40 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
I haven't yet read every post, but from what I have seen so far this thread demonstrates powerfully why there is a P5 and a G5.
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 10:06 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Some have mentioned UC-Miami-- I consider that a series not a rivalry. It hasn't been a rivalry in over a decade. UC has won 15 straight, mostly by large margins. The fan interest and school funding of the two programs is so far apart it is comical. The series is only still around because UC no longer plays another close rival (ie. Louisville, Pitt and WVU).

Yes, it was a bigger deal back in the Wood Hayes / Bo Schembechler days of the 50's and 60's.

But seniors who were in the stands to see the six game winning streak under Mallory and Crum come to an end in 1976 would be around 65 today, and wouldn't have any confidence of seeing two consecutive bowl winning years again ... even if bowls are now a dime a dozen.
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RE: Premier Rivalries in the Group of 5?
(06-23-2020 01:52 PM)panama Wrote:  
(06-23-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think Georgia St.-UAB would be a good one as well.
I want UAB because of proximity. But not sure they would generate the necessary hate.

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Well we'll see starting in 2027 if some hate can be generating from our 1st meeting. 1st game is Sept. 18th at your state of art stadium!
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