Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Insanity
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,700
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 36
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #1
Insanity
Did anyone else see this?

This is the first time I've posted on the Quad, but this is so extreme that I felt it needed to be discussed.

https://twitter.com/mlkajoy/status/12739...02849?s=19
06-19-2020 09:37 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #2
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 09:37 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Did anyone else see this?

This is the first time I've posted on the Quad, but this is so extreme that I felt it needed to be discussed.

https://twitter.com/mlkajoy/status/12739...02849?s=19

The last two I am sure have been goals since the 60's. Highly qualified black students are in great demand (oh, the systemic racism!), and we have to compete with a lot of good schools for them. I would presume that also affects faculty recruitment.

If the statue goes, can the name of the University be far behind?

These are listed as demands. What is the "or else" implied if one or more of the demands are not met? Maybe Lad or 93 can take a few minutes from their busy schedules and tell me.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 09:57 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-19-2020 09:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,700
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 36
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #3
RE: Insanity
Based on the most recent statistics I could find, about 5% of Rice students are black, which means that about 200 out of 4,000 undergraduate students are black.

I agree with OO that Rice has to compete with other elite universities (and honors programs at state schools) to recruit outstanding minority students and faculty. The numbers are just not there for a substantial increase.
06-19-2020 10:02 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rice93 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,672
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 23
I Root For:
Location:

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #4
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 09:37 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Did anyone else see this?

This is the first time I've posted on the Quad, but this is so extreme that I felt it needed to be discussed.

https://twitter.com/mlkajoy/status/12739...02849?s=19

The last two I am sure have been goals since the 60's. Highly qualified black students are in great demand (oh, the systemic racism!), and we have to compete with a lot of good schools for them. I would presume that also affects faculty recruitment.

If the statue goes, can the name of the University be far behind?

These are listed as demands. What is the "or else" implied if one or more of the demands are not met? Maybe Lad or 93 can take a few minutes from their busy schedules and tell me.

I'm not privy to the "or else".
06-19-2020 10:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #5
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 10:02 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Based on the most recent statistics I could find, about 5% of Rice students are black, which means that about 200 out of 4,000 undergraduate students are black.

I agree with OO that Rice has to compete with other elite universities (and honors programs at state schools) to recruit outstanding minority students and faculty. The numbers are just not there for a substantial increase.

According to wiki, it is 6.7%.

"White american" is listed as 37.7% of the student body, and both are about half the percentage in the population overall.
06-19-2020 10:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,904
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 59
I Root For: Rice
Location: New York
Post: #6
RE: Insanity
The African languages thing would be cool I guess-Would be awesome to be able to take a Swahili or Haitian Creole class.

The admit black students and hire more black professors are good but difficult to execute.

Not sure what a "black house" is... Most versions of these that I've seen involve a "no white students allowed" policy... Even HBCUs don't go that far.

The remove Willy's statue and hate speech would be non-starters for me. I've had people say that "misgendering" someone is hate speech... And given that I knew several people at Rice who changed their gender as often as they changed their clothes...
06-19-2020 10:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #7
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 10:30 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The African languages thing would be cool I guess-Would be awesome to be able to take a Swahili or Haitian Creole class.

The admit black students and hire more black professors are good but difficult to execute.

Not sure what a "black house" is... Most versions of these that I've seen involve a "no white students allowed" policy... Even HBCUs don't go that far.

The remove Willy's statue and hate speech would be non-starters for me. I've had people say that "misgendering" someone is hate speech... And given that I knew several people at Rice who changed their gender as often as they changed their clothes...

pretty much my thoughts.

I had a friend in my time at Rice who was a languages major. One day he said he needed to go to class. We attempted to persuade him to cut, but he refused, saying that he was the only student in one class and 1 of 2 in another, and he felt his absence would be noticed.

I wonder what the use is in a Swahili or Haitian Creole class, unless one is intending to work in those areas. Not a lot of scholarly works published in those languages. But I would expect them to be low enrollment, like my friend's classes. (One was Portuguese. Can't remember the other. total enrollment at Rice at that time was 1700.)
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 02:13 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-19-2020 10:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
westsidewolf1989 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,129
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 54
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 10:30 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The remove Willy's statue and hate speech would be non-starters for me. I've had people say that "misgendering" someone is hate speech... And given that I knew several people at Rice who changed their gender as often as they changed their clothes...

The part about the removal of the statue is odd to me. First of all, they're talking about removing the statue of the founder of the university, which bears his name, not the removal of a statue / renaming of a building for a secondary person in the university's history. If they are willing to remove the statue, why not take it a step further and just rename the university?

Further to the point, if they were that against the founder of the university / his original intentions for the university re: whites only (which have thankfully been amended long ago), why did they decide to come to Rice? I'm sure many students that attend Rice also applied to schools such as Yale University (named for Elihu Yale, who was a slave trader), Stanford University (named for Leland Stanford, who called Asian-Americans the "dregs" of an "inferior race") or the University of Virginia (founded by the third president of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, who also happened to own 700 slaves), just to name a few. I'm sure you could go through a variety of universities' founders and find something they said or did that was something that people absolutely would not tolerate or would be illegal today. But those men and women also did something positive, in terms of founding an educational institution, which is something they should be remembered for alongside with the other good and bad things they said/did in their lives. The search for purity / perfection in any particular human being is always going to end in disappointment.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 01:05 PM by westsidewolf1989.)
06-19-2020 01:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
greyowl72 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,193
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Permanent Basement
Post: #9
RE: Insanity
I was certain this type of demand would be made. In fact Mrs. Greyowl and I had a bet on whether it would happen before or after classes started. (Assuming they do start). I won.

My first reaction to the Tweet was hostile... however, I look at the world through the lens of an old white guy. That viewpoint in the world is rapidly disappearing and being replaced with another one.

Lately, I’ve tried to forego expressing my opinion on these matters and just shut up and listen.
06-19-2020 02:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BSWBRice Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 212
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Rice University
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Insanity
Half of these seem pretty non-controversial to me? I don't see an issue with adding some languages, and as others have mentioned increasing black enrollment and hiring more black faculty/staff has probably been a priority for most universities at one point or another. Sure there's always room to look at processes/recruiting measures, but this isn't anything out of the ordinary.

The hate speech thing could get sticky, but with a well-crafted definition I don't see the big deal in adding it to the student code of conduct.

I'm not really sure what a Black House is, but I'm guessing it will be kind of an analog to traditionally black fraternities found at a lot of other schools?

Funnily enough, the item that will probably be the most controversial (removing Willy's statue) is the least substantive. I really couldn't care less about statues anywhere, but I get that folks get attached to stuff like that. I remember folks having meltdowns when they sheared the hedges in the quad.

I don't think it will lead to changing the university name. I think the issue with statues is that they're typically monuments of veneration and don't really allow for a nuanced look at the figures they depict.
06-19-2020 03:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Offline
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 66,280
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 1785
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #11
RE: Insanity
Just wondering, how many of us would still go to today's Rice, assuming we had other options?

My original goal was a top-rated academic school with big-time athletics. That latter part is gone now at Rice, and in all likelihood is never coming back. If I had the same options today, I'd probably end up at Notre Dame.
06-19-2020 05:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #12
RE: Insanity
The thing about statues is where they may be. If it is a statue of Lee, in Lee Park, they probably will want the name of the park changed too. It's kind of like Ft. Bragg - it's the name that infuriates them.

Since Rice U is named after the guy in the statue, if they succeed in having the statue expelled, I don't think it will stop there. The name of the U is a logical next target.

But it will be interesting to see how the students at Yale and Stanford react to their racist namesakes.

The Black House I see as some sort of Black Student Union. Someplace where whites are not allowed except as guests. If so, it will be the only place on campus where any student is barred on the basis of race.

The hate speech thing I oppose. Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.

The language thing I find odd. Has there been much demand for African languages? Is anybody finding the lack of Bantu of !hosa a problem for their degree path? I see it as a costly sop to the black students. Each language offered will probably cost the U a lot in salaries and benefits on a per student basis. But sometimes you jut need to bear the ocst.
06-19-2020 05:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #13
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 05:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Just wondering, how many of us would still go to today's Rice, assuming we had other options?

My original goal was a top-rated academic school with big-time athletics. That latter part is gone now at Rice, and in all likelihood is never coming back. If I had the same options today, I'd probably end up at Notre Dame.

I would. I came in when Rice was tuition-free, and could not have gone to a school that prestigious without that "scholarship". My other options were either far away (Michigan and Stanford) or inferior (TCU).

But then, my parents made the decision for me.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 05:37 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-19-2020 05:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
tanqtonic Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,343
Joined: Nov 2016
Reputation: 340
I Root For: rice
Location:
Post: #14
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 05:24 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The thing about statues is where they may be. If it is a statue of Lee, in Lee Park, they probably will want the name of the park changed too. It's kind of like Ft. Bragg - it's the name that infuriates them.

Since Rice U is named after the guy in the statue, if they succeed in having the statue expelled, I don't think it will stop there. The name of the U is a logical next target.

But it will be interesting to see how the students at Yale and Stanford react to their racist namesakes.

The Black House I see as some sort of Black Student Union. Someplace where whites are not allowed except as guests. If so, it will be the only place on campus where any student is barred on the basis of race.

The hate speech thing I oppose. Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.

The language thing I find odd. Has there been much demand for African languages? Is anybody finding the lack of Bantu of !hosa a problem for their degree path? I see it as a costly sop to the black students. Each language offered will probably cost the U a lot in salaries and benefits on a per student basis. But sometimes you jut need to bear the ocst.

I think that any university that has a campus speech code that bars 'hate speech' (or any derivative thereof), and has an ability to to enforce it via disciplinary action, deserves every lawsuit that comes its way.

Might be a thing to do for fun when I retire retire.

I find it really amazing that that it is the progressive movements that actively seek to curtail speech. And yet they say everyone else is 'fascist'.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 07:54 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-19-2020 06:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BSWBRice Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 212
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Rice University
Location:
Post: #15
RE: Insanity
I would still go to Rice. I matriculated in 2005 though, so I knew what I was getting into sports-wise. Had a blast during my 4 years, met most of my lifelong friends there, awesome classes, etc.

I don't think it's the name, I think it's the statue since that's what was mentioned in the letter.

It looks like there is demand for adding languages since it is included in the letter. The CLIC offers courses in 10 languages at the moment. Why not throw in a few Swahili or Hausa offerings? I don't think they're asking for a full-blown major or even a minor -- just some course offerings.

Here's a link to Georgetown's Black House, which has been around for quite some time: https://cmea.georgetown.edu/blackhouse/

To make a tortured analogy, I think it's just a place on campus where black students have "home field advantage." I doubt there are actual restrictions on who can enter.

I doubt all or even most of these changes will come to pass, but students will always have opinions how to to improve the school and as an alum I find that comforting in a way. Folks are pushing boundaries and bringing up ideas that have been bubbling at least since I was on campus 15 years ago, and probably long before that.

edit: typo
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 06:45 PM by BSWBRice.)
06-19-2020 06:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
InterestedX Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 521
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 7
I Root For: Oxford
Location:
Post: #16
RE: Insanity
06-19-2020 06:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #17
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 06:44 PM)InterestedX Wrote:  https://cmea.georgetown.edu/blackhouse/#

https://resed.stanford.edu/residences/find-house/ujamaa

https://www.northwestern.edu/inclusion/r...index.html

Just a few of the Black Houses on prominent campuses

So, the question arises: does Grambling (or any other HBCU) have a White House?
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2020 09:46 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-19-2020 07:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,904
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 59
I Root For: Rice
Location: New York
Post: #18
RE: Insanity
To answer the post above... I matriculated to Rice a mere six years ago (Fall 2014-Fall 2017 I was on campus)... And I wouldn’t go there if I had to choose again.

Yes, I made some great friends. Yes, I have some great memories.

But would’ve those memories (and/or career opportunities) been any less if I had been a Fiji at UT like my grandfather was (assuming/knowing legacy procedures during rush).. Based on my observations, I doubt it. But UT is going off the rails too, so I don’t know...
06-19-2020 11:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #19
RE: Insanity
(06-19-2020 10:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 10:02 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Based on the most recent statistics I could find, about 5% of Rice students are black, which means that about 200 out of 4,000 undergraduate students are black.

I agree with OO that Rice has to compete with other elite universities (and honors programs at state schools) to recruit outstanding minority students and faculty. The numbers are just not there for a substantial increase.

According to wiki, it is 6.7%.

"White american" is listed as 37.7% of the student body, and both are about half the percentage in the population overall.

Since black and white students are both underrepresented to about the same extent, due to the “favoritism” shown to Asian-Americans, does that mean we should step up recruitment of both black and white students? I wonder how the black students would respond to a step up in the recruitment of whites.

I have always thought all students were recruited first on the basis of academics. Is that supposed to change?

Same for the faculty.
06-20-2020 09:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,377
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #20
RE: Insanity
Another question is how much is enough?

Say Rice starts admitting more blacks, and in a few years the proportion has climbed from 6.7% to 8.0%. Enough? What is satisfactory?
06-20-2020 09:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.