(06-22-2020 01:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bethune-Cookman SWAC or ASUN
South Carolina State Big South (more South Carolina schools=cheaper travel)

There are MEAC fans and alumni are calling for Virginia State, Virginia Union and Bowie State to be invited, and then get any PWI schools to join to save the conference. The rest of the schools fan base do not want to downgrade. I would like to see if they can lure two Pennsylvania large public schools to join D1. The PSAC could still lose two schools and still have plenty to work with.

Coppin State
UMES
Howard
Delaware State
Morgan State
Norfolk State
North Carolina Central
Virginia State
Virginia Union
Bowie State
Indiana, PA.
West Chester
Chicago State


If NC Central and Howard leaves? Central State Ohio and Kentucky State might be an option. They seemed to fit better for the CIAA since they are closer, but CIAA do not want them.

The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

What renders David State's "If NC Central and Howard leaves?" pointless is that if NC Central and Howard leaves, there's no longer much point to being in the MEAC for a number of those left behind, which would mean time to pack it in and move on.

If B-C leaves and SC State stays, then a couple/three years down the track it might be time for Virginia State to have a look at whether the single division, Maryland/DC centric MEAC is a fit for them after all. The more years after the covid19 emergency is in the rear view mirror that might come, the greater the likelihood of a decision to go ahead.

(06-22-2020 03:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

What renders David State's "If NC Central and Howard leaves?" pointless is that if NC Central and Howard leaves, there's no longer much point to being in the MEAC for a number of those left behind, which would mean time to pack it in and move on.

If B-C leaves and SC State stays, then a couple/three years down the track it might be time for Virginia State to have a look at whether the single division, Maryland/DC centric MEAC is a fit for them after all. The more years after the covid19 emergency is in the rear view mirror that might come, the greater the likelihood of a decision to go ahead.

So the departure of Howard and NC Central would break the conference? Wouldn't the survivors at least try to cling to life as a DI conference, WAC-style? That NCAAT autobid is a valuable resource.

(06-22-2020 04:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 03:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

What renders David State's "If NC Central and Howard leaves?" pointless is that if NC Central and Howard leaves, there's no longer much point to being in the MEAC for a number of those left behind, which would mean time to pack it in and move on.

If B-C leaves and SC State stays, then a couple/three years down the track it might be time for Virginia State to have a look at whether the single division, Maryland/DC centric MEAC is a fit for them after all. The more years after the covid19 emergency is in the rear view mirror that might come, the greater the likelihood of a decision to go ahead.

So the departure of Howard and NC Central would break the conference? Wouldn't the survivors at least try to cling to life as a DI conference, WAC-style? That NCAAT autobid is a valuable resource.

They could try, but with Howard and N.C. Central gone, this is what you've got:
Bethune-Cookman
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
Maryland-Eastern Shore
Coppin State
Morgan State
Delaware State

Virginia State gets them back to 8 and 6 (if they're even able/interested), but there really aren't any other viable options. And B-C/SCSU/NSU would still be threats to leave for one reason or another. So yeah, I think if a two-school combination of Howard/NCCA/NSU leave, then it's lights out for the MEAC, at least as a D1 HBCU conference.

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 01:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bethune-Cookman SWAC or ASUN
South Carolina State Big South (more South Carolina schools=cheaper travel)

There are MEAC fans and alumni are calling for Virginia State, Virginia Union and Bowie State to be invited, and then get any PWI schools to join to save the conference. The rest of the schools fan base do not want to downgrade. I would like to see if they can lure two Pennsylvania large public schools to join D1. The PSAC could still lose two schools and still have plenty to work with.

Coppin State
UMES
Howard
Delaware State
Morgan State
Norfolk State
North Carolina Central
Virginia State
Virginia Union
Bowie State
Indiana, PA.
West Chester
Chicago State


If NC Central and Howard leaves? Central State Ohio and Kentucky State might be an option. They seemed to fit better for the CIAA since they are closer, but CIAA do not want them.

The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

I have studied those CIAA schools extensively and the only two anywhere close to D1-ready are Virginia St and Winston-Salem St. And WSSU's president already publicly eliminated themselves. So the MEAC's only options are Virginia St and then Chicago St.

(06-22-2020 04:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 04:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 03:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

What renders David State's "If NC Central and Howard leaves?" pointless is that if NC Central and Howard leaves, there's no longer much point to being in the MEAC for a number of those left behind, which would mean time to pack it in and move on.

If B-C leaves and SC State stays, then a couple/three years down the track it might be time for Virginia State to have a look at whether the single division, Maryland/DC centric MEAC is a fit for them after all. The more years after the covid19 emergency is in the rear view mirror that might come, the greater the likelihood of a decision to go ahead.

So the departure of Howard and NC Central would break the conference? Wouldn't the survivors at least try to cling to life as a DI conference, WAC-style? That NCAAT autobid is a valuable resource.

They could try, but with Howard and N.C. Central gone, this is what you've got:
Bethune-Cookman
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
Maryland-Eastern Shore
Coppin State
Morgan State
Delaware State

Virginia State gets them back to 8 and 6 (if they're even able/interested), but there really aren't any other viable options. And B-C/SCSU/NSU would still be threats to leave for one reason or another. So yeah, I think if a two-school combination of Howard/NCCA/NSU leave, then it's lights out for the MEAC, at least as a D1 HBCU conference.

See, this is where they can get more creative. Not to say that any non-HBCU DII adds would necessarily be inclined to join the MEAC, but it is a way into DI. Then again, are there any such DII schools in the region with the means and motive to move up? DavidSt, this question is not for you to answer. Looking for actually informed opinions.

(06-22-2020 05:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 04:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 04:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 03:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The only CIAA school I can conceivably see moving up and bailing the MEAC out is Virginia St. Virginia Union is tiny and lacks baseball. Bowie St lacks baseball and has a tiny football stadium

What renders David State's "If NC Central and Howard leaves?" pointless is that if NC Central and Howard leaves, there's no longer much point to being in the MEAC for a number of those left behind, which would mean time to pack it in and move on.

If B-C leaves and SC State stays, then a couple/three years down the track it might be time for Virginia State to have a look at whether the single division, Maryland/DC centric MEAC is a fit for them after all. The more years after the covid19 emergency is in the rear view mirror that might come, the greater the likelihood of a decision to go ahead.

So the departure of Howard and NC Central would break the conference? Wouldn't the survivors at least try to cling to life as a DI conference, WAC-style? That NCAAT autobid is a valuable resource.

They could try, but with Howard and N.C. Central gone, this is what you've got:
Bethune-Cookman
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
Maryland-Eastern Shore
Coppin State
Morgan State
Delaware State

Virginia State gets them back to 8 and 6 (if they're even able/interested), but there really aren't any other viable options. And B-C/SCSU/NSU would still be threats to leave for one reason or another. So yeah, I think if a two-school combination of Howard/NCCA/NSU leave, then it's lights out for the MEAC, at least as a D1 HBCU conference.

See, this is where they can get more creative. Not to say that any non-HBCU DII adds would necessarily be inclined to join the MEAC, but it is a way into DI. Then again, are there any such DII schools in the region with the means and motive to move up? DavidSt, this question is not for you to answer. Looking for actually informed opinions.

There really aren't any PWI schools in the region that have D1 ambitions and would be a good fit for the MEAC or the MEAC to them. Conference Carolinas is all small private schools; basically it's a conference of Presbyterians, and they probably shouldn't be D1 themselves. I guess UNC Pembroke wouldn't be completely out of place, at least on paper, but I have no idea if they have the dry powder or even interest in a move up (plus their endowment is not great at $25M and their stadium is smaller than those of most of North Carolina's D2 schools).

My educated guess is that any potential D1 schools in the MEAC footprint are looking for something more stable than the MEAC to warrant the investment. They'd wait for the Big South or ASUN to show interest.

(06-22-2020 04:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  They could try, but with Howard and N.C. Central gone, this is what you've got:
Bethune-Cookman
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
Maryland-Eastern Shore
Coppin State
Morgan State
Delaware State

Virginia State gets them back to 8 and 6 (if they're even able/interested)

And the point of this thread is B-C is considering their options now ... but if NC Central and Howard are gone? The meeting to consider the options for both B-C and SC State starts with, "can we find a home?"

(06-22-2020 07:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 04:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  They could try, but with Howard and N.C. Central gone, this is what you've got:
Bethune-Cookman
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
Maryland-Eastern Shore
Coppin State
Morgan State
Delaware State

Virginia State gets them back to 8 and 6 (if they're even able/interested)

And the point of this thread is B-C is considering their options now ... but if NC Central and Howard are gone? The meeting to consider the options for both B-C and SC State starts with, "can we find a home?"

And I'm saying the conference is in trouble deep if Howard and NCCU leave, regardless of whether B-C leaves or not. If B-C leaves, the MEAC can survive with a smaller footprint. If Howard and NCCU go, then it's lights out MEAC.

Thomas Jefferson in Philadelphia is near Delaware State. Endowment is $932.9 million. Academics are closer to Patriot League,butnofootball.
Science also in the same town with a $170 million endowment. Both schools are bigger than some D1 schools.
NYIT with $111.3 million
Lenoir-Rhyne in North Carolina with $113 million and is one of the healthier in the privates. They have football. There were rumors that they wanted D1 before 2010, but I have not seen any proof.
Queens-Charlotte $146 million, but passed on adding football recently.
Wilmington in Delaware $92 million. no football.
Mercy in Penn. with a $255.8 million endowment, no football.
Wingate with $90 million endowment, with football.
Indiana, PA. $65 million with football.
West Chester $45 million with football.
Georgian Court $51.288 million no football
Gannon $63 million with football.
Shippensburg $40.2 million with football
Carson-Newman $57.5 million with football
Mars Hill $50 million with football

Just pick and choose who could make the move. There are a lot of schools I could not find an endowment for.

(06-22-2020 08:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If Howard and NCCU go, then it's lights out MEAC.

So we agree regarding David State's scenarios that involve Howard and NCCU leaving being pointless.

(06-22-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 08:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If Howard and NCCU go, then it's lights out MEAC.

So we agree regarding David State's scenarios that involve Howard and NCCU leaving being pointless.

Right, I was responding to nerdlinger and his belief that there might be enough callups willing to join the MEAC if that’s what it took to get to D1. I guess never say never but anyone with ambitions for D1 in the region probably aren’t going to chance it in the MEAC, which has lost four schools already and might be losing more.

(06-22-2020 10:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 09:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-22-2020 08:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If Howard and NCCU go, then it's lights out MEAC.

So we agree regarding David State's scenarios that involve Howard and NCCU leaving being pointless.

Right, I was responding to nerdlinger and his belief that there might be enough callups willing to join the MEAC if that’s what it took to get to D1. I guess never say never but anyone with ambitions for D1 in the region probably aren’t going to chance it in the MEAC, which has lost four schools already and might be losing more.

It's not really a belief, I was just asking.

(06-22-2020 09:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Thomas Jefferson in Philadelphia is near Delaware State. Endowment is $932.9 million. Academics are closer to Patriot League,butnofootball.
Science also in the same town with a $170 million endowment. Both schools are bigger than some D1 schools.
NYIT with $111.3 million
Lenoir-Rhyne in North Carolina with $113 million and is one of the healthier in the privates. They have football. There were rumors that they wanted D1 before 2010, but I have not seen any proof.
Queens-Charlotte $146 million, but passed on adding football recently.
Wilmington in Delaware $92 million. no football.
Mercy in Penn. with a $255.8 million endowment, no football.
Wingate with $90 million endowment, with football.
Indiana, PA. $65 million with football.
West Chester $45 million with football.
Georgian Court $51.288 million no football
Gannon $63 million with football.
Shippensburg $40.2 million with football
Carson-Newman $57.5 million with football
Mars Hill $50 million with football

Just pick and choose who could make the move. There are a lot of schools I could not find an endowment for.

Mercy is in Dobbs Ferry, NY; not PA.

It does not matter how big the school is or what their endowment is. Unless you can provide a link to an official source that shows these schools have had any interest in D1 within the last 3 years, this is just another of your fantasy lists.

What is it with conference realignment enthusiasts and their assumption that an endowment is a slush fund that a school can spend on propping up a money losing athletics program?

Much of the funds in an endowment are tied by bequest to some specific or general purpose, and the odds are that in the schools that are not already major sports schools, very little of those funds are in bequests written to allow the funds to be tossed away propping up an athletic department.

I'm guessing it's a case of "I can find out this number, I am going to use it whether it is relevant or not!"

Can someone gauge what the interest level is on the SWAC's end?

The case for adding FAMU was that FAMU has a huge brand. Their games vs. several of the SWAC schools were well attended on both ends. They're close to the Alabama schools, not very far from the Mississippi schools, and even within a reasonable drive of Southern (Baton Rouge).

BCU seems a little different. Compared to how tightly knit geographically the rest of the conference is, BCU would be an outlier, reasonably close to only FAMU. Their brand doesn't seem ignite the same passion as FAMU did for the SWAC. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

So is this just BCU trying to make overtures to the SWAC, or am I way off and the feelings are mutual between the school and the SWAC?

(06-23-2020 12:17 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  So is this just BCU trying to make overtures to the SWAC, or am I way off and the feelings are mutual between the school and the SWAC?

I have no inside info, but the reporting from Orlando makes it sound like it's being driven by Bethune Cookman, since SWAC is only one "possible destination" mentioned, the other being the ASUN, where if there was a definite offer from the SWAC driving the process, it doesn't seem like it would be about "possible destinations".

B-C now finds themselves on the end of a long and sparse island chain of SC State and NCCU before it hits the mainland at Norfolk, and it seems like they are reacting to being last island in the chain.

(06-23-2020 12:17 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Can someone gauge what the interest level is on the SWAC's end?

The case for adding FAMU was that FAMU has a huge brand. Their games vs. several of the SWAC schools were well attended on both ends. They're close to the Alabama schools, not very far from the Mississippi schools, and even within a reasonable drive of Southern (Baton Rouge).

BCU seems a little different. Compared to how tightly knit geographically the rest of the conference is, BCU would be an outlier, reasonably close to only FAMU. Their brand doesn't seem ignite the same passion as FAMU did for the SWAC. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

So is this just BCU trying to make overtures to the SWAC, or am I way off and the feelings are mutual between the school and the SWAC?

Outside of acquiring the Florida Classic under the SWAC’s portfolio, it is hard to see what the SWAC gains. Considering the FAMU president said at the BOT meeting he was aware of another departure from the MEAC, one could surmise BCU was part of a package deal to convince FAMU to come on board and the SWAC presidents deemed FAMU’s brand so valuable it was worth the price of 2.

Who knows, if the former Ohio St president lands a SWAC job, maybe it’ll get leaked that FAMU has a “cookman problem”.

While losing any member is not a pleasant thing for a conference on shaky grounds maybe B-C can approach the MEAC and say “listen, we can’t afford the travel and over half the ASUN is in driving distance for us. What you need most right now is football programs; can we take our Olympic programs elsewhere and leave football in the MEAC?”

(06-23-2020 06:55 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  While losing any member is not a pleasant thing for a conference on shaky grounds maybe B-C can approach the MEAC and say “listen, we can’t afford the travel and over half the ASUN is in driving distance for us. What you need most right now is football programs; can we take our Olympic programs elsewhere and leave football in the MEAC?”

That would be very logical and a win win for everyone