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Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;
06-20-2020 10:56 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 10:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;

That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.
06-20-2020 11:53 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 11:53 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.

Concerning, but not grave. The Patriot League runs at seven with only five full members in the football conference.

If any of the PL full members drops football, the league bylaws would shut down the football conference outright, even with more associate members.
06-20-2020 01:26 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 01:26 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 11:53 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.

Concerning, but not grave. The Patriot League runs at seven with only five full members in the football conference.

If any of the PL full members drops football, the league bylaws would shut down the football conference outright, even with more associate members.

The Patriot has the benefit of being more of a destination conference than many in that region. Patriot could pluck members from the AEC, NEC, MAAC, and a couple others if it wanted.
06-20-2020 02:01 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 01:26 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 11:53 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.

Concerning, but not grave. The Patriot League runs at seven with only five full members in the football conference.

If any of the PL full members drops football, the league bylaws would shut down the football conference outright, even with more associate members.

The Patriot league sponsors baseball, men's basketball, FCS football, men's lacrosse and men's soccer, so they have the freedom to drop FCS football and would still have one more men's team sports than requires to be a multi-sport conference.

The MEAC sponsors baseball, men's basketball, and FCS football, and the same circumstance which would see them dropping below 6 in FCS football would see them required to sponsor men's basketball plus two additional sports.

So the Patriot's circumstances offer not the slightest comfort to the MEAC.
06-20-2020 03:56 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
UMES and Coppin State were looking into adding football. Both may saved football in the MEAC if and when the two southern schools leave. UMES did not add football because of the travel cost was more than they could take in. If it becomes a bus league? They may add the sport.
06-20-2020 03:59 PM
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DoubleRSU Online
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UMES and Coppin State were looking into adding football. Both may saved football in the MEAC if and when the two southern schools leave. UMES did not add football because of the travel cost was more than they could take in. If it becomes a bus league? They may add the sport.

When did UMES and Coppin look into football? What are your sources on this
06-20-2020 05:59 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #68
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 11:53 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;

That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.

I wonder if the Northern Big South Fball only schools would consider the MEAC for football only. Travel would certainly be better
06-20-2020 08:36 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 10:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;

What other sports are considered team??
Soccer, Golf, Tennis anything else?
06-20-2020 08:45 PM
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HatterFan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 08:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;

What other sports are considered team??
Soccer, Golf, Tennis anything else?

not golf or tennis - for men it's football, basketball, baseball, soccer, wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, volleyball, water polo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I
06-20-2020 09:35 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 02:01 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 01:26 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 11:53 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  That paints a grave picture. They are at 7 football members now—lose two and they are toast. There’s no other men’s team sport they come close to having 6 schools for.

Concerning, but not grave. The Patriot League runs at seven with only five full members in the football conference.

If any of the PL full members drops football, the league bylaws would shut down the football conference outright, even with more associate members.

The Patriot has the benefit of being more of a destination conference than many in that region. Patriot could pluck members from the AEC, NEC, MAAC, and a couple others if it wanted.

If the PL needs football members, they won't come from the AE. All four AE members who play football are public. None can meet the AI requirements of the PL. All four are in a much better football league. Even if the CAA lost JMU, the rump CAA would be a much better league than the PL.

Until the PL gets rid of the AI, any new member will have to be private. I don't think any MAAC school would want to take a step down to the PL in basketball and deal with the AI headache. Robert Morris made their move. The NEC has Sacred Heart, Bryant, Merrimack, LIU, Wagner, and SFPA as private football playing schools. I think the faculty at Lafayette just shuddered as that list was read.

The PL would be stuck if someone (Fordham sick of the AI? Georgetown or Bucknell dropping the sport?) left the football league. It would require them to completely re-evaluate what they are about as a conference.
06-20-2020 09:37 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 09:35 PM)HatterFan Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 08:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 10:38 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.

Wait, that IS a hiccup, as if you don't sponsor FB, you need to sponsor Basketball and TWO men's sports. From the 2019 by-laws, 20.02.5.2, Sports Sponsorship:
Quote: ... In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports;

What other sports are considered team??
Soccer, Golf, Tennis anything else?

not golf or tennis - for men it's football, basketball, baseball, soccer, wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, volleyball, water polo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I

Why would wrestling be considered a team sport?

Edit: Actually, it's not, per section 20.9.6.3 of the NCAA Bylaws.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productd...s/D120.pdf

That Wikipedia page has it listed under both team and individual.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2020 10:57 PM by Nerdlinger.)
06-20-2020 10:52 PM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 09:37 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  If the PL needs football members, they won't come from the AE. All four AE members who play football are public. None can meet the AI requirements of the PL. All four are in a much better football league. Even if the CAA lost JMU, the rump CAA would be a much better league than the PL.

Until the PL gets rid of the AI, any new member will have to be private. I don't think any MAAC school would want to take a step down to the PL in basketball and deal with the AI headache. Robert Morris made their move. The NEC has Sacred Heart, Bryant, Merrimack, LIU, Wagner, and SFPA as private football playing schools. I think the faculty at Lafayette just shuddered as that list was read.

The PL would be stuck if someone (Fordham sick of the AI? Georgetown or Bucknell dropping the sport?) left the football league. It would require them to completely re-evaluate what they are about as a conference.

Loyola Maryland did it, but they’re more of a lacrosse school anyways. I could see Quinnipiac biting if ever offered: they like playing hockey with the Ivies and would probably let basketball suffer for the Patriot reputation. I don’t think any of the rest of the MAAC schools would bite.
06-20-2020 10:55 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 10:55 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 09:37 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  If the PL needs football members, they won't come from the AE. All four AE members who play football are public. None can meet the AI requirements of the PL. All four are in a much better football league. Even if the CAA lost JMU, the rump CAA would be a much better league than the PL.

Until the PL gets rid of the AI, any new member will have to be private. I don't think any MAAC school would want to take a step down to the PL in basketball and deal with the AI headache. Robert Morris made their move. The NEC has Sacred Heart, Bryant, Merrimack, LIU, Wagner, and SFPA as private football playing schools. I think the faculty at Lafayette just shuddered as that list was read.

The PL would be stuck if someone (Fordham sick of the AI? Georgetown or Bucknell dropping the sport?) left the football league. It would require them to completely re-evaluate what they are about as a conference.

Loyola Maryland did it, but they’re more of a lacrosse school anyways. I could see Quinnipiac biting if ever offered: they like playing hockey with the Ivies and would probably let basketball suffer for the Patriot reputation. I don’t think any of the rest of the MAAC schools would bite.

And neither offer any help with football numbers.
06-20-2020 10:59 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 10:59 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  And neither offer any help with football numbers.

And the Patriot wouldn't need help with their FB numbers to survive as a multi-sports conference, which is the issue with the MEAC. The Patriot sponsors four men's team sports other than football, while the MEAC sponsors two, and a non-FB multi-sport conference need to sponsor three (FB and Basketball are enough for a FB sponsoring conference).

And the same circumstances that would push the MEAC under 6 in FB would likely push them below 6 in baseball.

As to whether there is an FCS PBC playing as a FB-affiliate in some FCS conference which would find the "bus league" version of the MEAC a more convenient place to play, that I don't know.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2020 09:12 AM by BruceMcF.)
06-21-2020 04:46 AM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UMES and Coppin State were looking into adding football. Both may saved football in the MEAC if and when the two southern schools leave. UMES did not add football because of the travel cost was more than they could take in. If it becomes a bus league? They may add the sport.

So in today’s environment when most schools can barely stay afloat, these two schools are going to add something that will cause them to lose even more money?
06-21-2020 07:57 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-21-2020 07:57 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UMES and Coppin State were looking into adding football. Both may saved football in the MEAC if and when the two southern schools leave. UMES did not add football because of the travel cost was more than they could take in. If it becomes a bus league? They may add the sport.

So in today’s environment when most schools can barely stay afloat, these two schools are going to add something that will cause them to lose even more money?

Yeah, it might not be AS unlikely as Bobby Mo switching their FB to the MEAC to help bring it to six ... but it's still awfully unlikely.

But also consider the source ... David State doesn't much mind if the likelihood of the things he suggests are down in the 0.01% territory.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2020 09:14 AM by BruceMcF.)
06-21-2020 09:14 AM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-21-2020 09:14 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-21-2020 07:57 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UMES and Coppin State were looking into adding football. Both may saved football in the MEAC if and when the two southern schools leave. UMES did not add football because of the travel cost was more than they could take in. If it becomes a bus league? They may add the sport.

So in today’s environment when most schools can barely stay afloat, these two schools are going to add something that will cause them to lose even more money?

Yeah, it might not be AS unlikely as Bobby Mo switching their FB to the MEAC to help bring it to six ... but it's still awfully unlikely.

But also consider the source ... David State doesn't much mind if the likelihood of the things he suggests are down in the 0.01% territory.

It's like the college realignment equivalent of McDonald's "Hey... it could happen" campaign from the early 90s.
06-21-2020 12:10 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
Looks like the MEAC is 2 schools away from a shut down.
06-21-2020 12:58 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
I don’t get the MEAC-Patriot comparison. The Patriot’s jammed up because who they want doesn’t want to come over for either just football or the whole meal. But, there is no shortage of programs who would gladly go there if they were wanted by the Patriot. Bob Mo football included. There is no doubt the Marist’s and Sacred Heart’s would bolt before the end of the question. Patsy wants none of them.

I don’t think anyone wants to be with the remainder of MEAC who’s in D1 now. And for a coastal conference to possibly lose both its Florida schools? Time of death...

This is going to weigh heavily on Howard now as to what to do. I know they’d really want CAA, snd the location is an asset, but I doubt they have support. Same with Patsy. Over American’s dead body, and I doubt the almost pulse-less football program is worth absorbing just for another body in the football conference. There was a reason Patsy wanted the top end of CAAF.
06-21-2020 01:48 PM
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