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Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 11:39 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Is there a possibility that the SWAC is trying to strangle the MEAC so that they are the premier HBCU conference and could dump the Celebration Bowl for participating in the FCS playoffs?


Could be both SWAC and Big South. Rumors is that South Carolina State are in talks to join the Big South for all sports.
06-19-2020 01:16 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
SC State rumor has already been debunked. Nothing happening. So just stop.
06-19-2020 01:31 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Rumors is that South Carolina State are in talks to join the Big South for all sports.

Not to say it couldn't happen, but I don't think "rumors" count as a valid source, especially if you're the source of them.
06-19-2020 01:32 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 12:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What's the policy for turning down an D2 playoff bid? Would the conference be able to send their second-place team if a SIAC or CIAA school went to the Celebration Bowl? I know that the MEAC and SWAC turned down auto bids but the MEAC sent schools to the FCS playoffs at at-large teams; does that carry to D2?

If nothing else, the CIAA and SIAC could revive the Pioneer Bowl and send top non-Celebration Bowl champions there. You could even gin up a third bowl, guarantee every HBCU D1 and D2 conference has at least one representative, and make a long weekend of it.

First off, Division II does not have automatic bids for conference champions. Playoff teams are determined by regional rankings; generally the top seven in each region's rankings qualify, but under the "earned access" rule, if a conference's highest-ranked team is 8th or 9th (regardless of whether it's the champion), that team gets in ahead of the #7 team.

For many years Tuskegee chose not to participate in the playoffs. When this was the case, they were not included in the regional rankings at all, but the earned access policy applied to the rest of the SIAC. As an example of how that played out, here's a look at the final rankings from that region for 2007 (when Tuskegee won the SIAC and went undefeated):

[Image: NwjkW61.png]

At the time only 6 teams from a region made the playoffs, but earned access extended all the way to 10th. The playoff teams based on these rankings were #1 Valdosta State, #2 North Alabama, #3 Delta State, #4 Catawba, #6 Albany State (who finished 2nd in the SIAC behind undefeated Tuskegee), and #10 Shaw (the CIAA's champion and highest-ranked team). Carson–Newman was the odd team out, despite being ranked #11 in the national polls while Albany State and Shaw were unranked.
06-19-2020 01:47 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 12:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What's the policy for turning down an D2 playoff bid? Would the conference be able to send their second-place team if a SIAC or CIAA school went to the Celebration Bowl? I know that the MEAC and SWAC turned down auto bids but the MEAC sent schools to the FCS playoffs at at-large teams; does that carry to D2?

If nothing else, the CIAA and SIAC could revive the Pioneer Bowl and send top non-Celebration Bowl champions there. You could even gin up a third bowl, guarantee every HBCU D1 and D2 conference has at least one representative, and make a long weekend of it.

D2 currently has four bowl games. The Great American Conference is tied-in with the Live United Texarkana Bowl so the highest finishing non-playoff team from the GAC standings goes to that bowl vs an at-large team from either the Lone Star or MIAA. I'd like to see more D2 bowl games and having a D2 CIAA-SIAC Pioneer Bowl followed by a FCS MEAC-SWAC Celebration Bowl is a good idea. Two games in one stadium on one day! I would not want to see a bowl game between a FCS school and a D2 school; too much of a competitive imbalance. We used to have the Heart of Texas Bowl that featured two games; the NJCAA game started about Noon with the D2 game starting about 7:00 that evening.
06-19-2020 03:39 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 11:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bethune-Cookman do have some good football teams that have actually beat a FBS team scalp on their record. They are better than the Alabama schools recently. Only NC Central and SC State are the only above average football schools in MEAC.

The only western HBCU schools left in D2.
Lane
LeMoyne-Owen
Lincoln, Mo.
Miles
Tuskegee
The rest are NAIA and 1 4 year in the NJCAA right now.

Bethune-Cookman hasn't done badly in football but they are not powers either. Their record vs FBS since 2005 is 2-10 with losing margins of 21-63 points. The two wins are against a 1-win FIU in 2013 and a 4-win FIU in 2014. The 2013 win was the first victory ever over an FBS opponent.
06-19-2020 03:56 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #47
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 01:47 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 12:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What's the policy for turning down an D2 playoff bid? Would the conference be able to send their second-place team if a SIAC or CIAA school went to the Celebration Bowl? I know that the MEAC and SWAC turned down auto bids but the MEAC sent schools to the FCS playoffs at at-large teams; does that carry to D2?

If nothing else, the CIAA and SIAC could revive the Pioneer Bowl and send top non-Celebration Bowl champions there. You could even gin up a third bowl, guarantee every HBCU D1 and D2 conference has at least one representative, and make a long weekend of it.

First off, Division II does not have automatic bids for conference champions. Playoff teams are determined by regional rankings; generally the top seven in each region's rankings qualify, but under the "earned access" rule, if a conference's highest-ranked team is 8th or 9th (regardless of whether it's the champion), that team gets in ahead of the #7 team.

For many years Tuskegee chose not to participate in the playoffs. When this was the case, they were not included in the regional rankings at all, but the earned access policy applied to the rest of the SIAC. As an example of how that played out, here's a look at the final rankings from that region for 2007 (when Tuskegee won the SIAC and went undefeated):

[Image: NwjkW61.png]

At the time only 6 teams from a region made the playoffs, but earned access extended all the way to 10th. The playoff teams based on these rankings were #1 Valdosta State, #2 North Alabama, #3 Delta State, #4 Catawba, #6 Albany State (who finished 2nd in the SIAC behind undefeated Tuskegee), and #10 Shaw (the CIAA's champion and highest-ranked team). Carson–Newman was the odd team out, despite being ranked #11 in the national polls while Albany State and Shaw were unranked.

I forgot that they use the regional polls for D2 seeding (it's been a long time since I've paid much attention to D2 football).

Would it be worth it for the CIAA or SIAC to let their champion pass on the NCAA playoffs to play in the Celebration Bowl? That assumes that they don't have to tell the NCAA that they don't want to be in the playoffs before the season like Tuskegee. There's also an issue I didn't think of with the D2 season ending before the FCS season, so I don't know how they resolve that if they even want to.
06-19-2020 07:50 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #48
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC


I threw out the Chicago St-to-MEAC scenario back when Hampton left. Really hope the MEAC throws us a lifeline. Much more natural (and competitive and financial and geographic) fit.
06-19-2020 07:53 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
Will Bethune Cookman get this done before the end of the month?
06-19-2020 08:24 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 08:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Will Bethune Cookman get this done before the end of the month?

They’re discussing their options. They can discuss a SWAC move all they want, but why wouldn’t have the SWAC already plucked them if they wanted them? Why not announce FAMU one day and BC the next? I really doubt the SWAC is going to take them.
06-19-2020 08:40 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 07:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

I threw out the Chicago St-to-MEAC scenario back when Hampton left. Really hope the MEAC throws us a lifeline. Much more natural (and competitive and financial and geographic) fit.

This would be a terrific move for Chicago St, the WAC, and a good (but not great move) for the MEAC.
06-19-2020 08:41 PM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 07:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

I threw out the Chicago St-to-MEAC scenario back when Hampton left. Really hope the MEAC throws us a lifeline. Much more natural (and competitive and financial and geographic) fit.

CUSA
06-19-2020 08:42 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
B-C has a few options:

Stay in the MEAC
SWAC
DII
ASUN

They may have already decided option 1 isn’t an option so option 2 is the next best scenario because it keeps them both FCS and with HBCUs. The SWAC has to reciprocate and if they don’t they are going to have to pick which is more important: HBCU Conference status or DI status.

The ASUN gets them some better travel but only a guarantee of 2 HBCU football opponents a year—and non for Olympic sports. All HBCU play would have to be OOC

D2 keeps them with similar institutions but at the cost of their status and the ability to to play the lucrative cash games agains the big boys.
06-19-2020 08:54 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-19-2020 08:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  B-C has a few options:

Stay in the MEAC
SWAC
DII
ASUN

They may have already decided option 1 isn’t an option so option 2 is the next best scenario because it keeps them both FCS and with HBCUs. The SWAC has to reciprocate and if they don’t they are going to have to pick which is more important: HBCU Conference status or DI status.

The ASUN gets them some better travel but only a guarantee of 2 HBCU football opponents a year—and non for Olympic sports. All HBCU play would have to be OOC

D2 keeps them with similar institutions but at the cost of their status and the ability to to play the lucrative cash games agains the big boys.

I doubt any of the MEAC schools other than Howard and Norfolk St. would find a home in any Division I conference but the SWAC.
06-19-2020 11:33 PM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
I think NCCU could find another conference, too
06-19-2020 11:36 PM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
Here’s where I’d rank the probability of landing a new D1 home:

Very High: Howard, N.C. Central

Both have 10K enrollment, Howard has the added perk of being in DC and sound academics

Probably: B-C, Norfolk St, SC St

B-C and SC St both fit the geographic footprint for the ASUN and they could use some members. SC St draws very well for football.

Low: Morgan St, Delaware St, UMES, Coppin St

If crap hits the fan hello CIAA.
06-20-2020 12:13 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
If it is true that there are 5 who will stay with Howard in an FCS Bus League, and obviously Chicago State would jump at an invite, that means it is in the hands of the Howard President and whatever they call their board of regents to keep the MEAC alive.

I am a bit skeptical that Howard wants to add to its history that it killed a conference of HBCU's. That just doesn't seem to jibe with Howard's leadership role.
06-20-2020 07:36 AM
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 07:36 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If it is true that there are 5 who will stay with Howard in an FCS Bus League, and obviously Chicago State would jump at an invite, that means it is in the hands of the Howard President and whatever they call their board of regents to keep the MEAC alive.

I am a bit skeptical that Howard wants to add to its history that it killed a conference of HBCU's. That just doesn't seem to jibe with Howard's leadership role.

It’s purely speculation but I think if that group holds they are okay. The 4 football programs are going to have a rough life as independents though. Football (and the Marching Band Half Time Show) is the bread and butter of the HBCUs. If football is in jeopardy they may collectively have to move down. Perhaps they do something out-of-the box and play double round robin.
06-20-2020 08:39 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
(06-20-2020 08:39 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-20-2020 07:36 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If it is true that there are 5 who will stay with Howard in an FCS Bus League, and obviously Chicago State would jump at an invite, that means it is in the hands of the Howard President and whatever they call their board of regents to keep the MEAC alive.

I am a bit skeptical that Howard wants to add to its history that it killed a conference of HBCU's. That just doesn't seem to jibe with Howard's leadership role.

It’s purely speculation but I think if that group holds they are okay. The 4 football programs are going to have a rough life as independents though. Football (and the Marching Band Half Time Show) is the bread and butter of the HBCUs. If football is in jeopardy they may collectively have to move down. Perhaps they do something out-of-the box and play double round robin.

Though it is FCS, so there is nothing forbidding a conference of 5 (supposing UMES and Chicago State are non-FB members), which is a better position for them than being FCS independents.

If the Celebration Bowl could continue, they would probably be OK. I don't know if it could (crystal ball is still broken and in the shop), but it's plausible.
06-20-2020 09:56 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: Bethune-Cookman officials meeting to discuss move to the SWAC
There’s a potential hiccup to that core of 6 plus Chicago St being able to carry on as a conference.

They’d only have 4 football teams so they’d need to sponsor another men’s team sport. Morgan St and Howard don’t play baseball and Chicago St is supposed to be dropping it so that leaves them with 5 baseball schools—1 shy of the 6 needed.
06-20-2020 10:38 AM
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