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FCS is a hot mess
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NJMark Offline
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Post: #121
RE: FCS is a hot mess
(07-03-2021 08:14 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 03:04 PM)NJMark Wrote:  
(06-29-2021 11:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-29-2021 10:47 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  DFW: so you want students who shouldn't be there on the football team?

That's not what I said. When the Patriot League allows recruits to sign at Bucknell and Fordham that cannot even be recruited by Georgetown, that's a competitive imbalance.

How many football players are walking in the door within one standard deviation of Georgetown's published SAT range of 1420-1560 that aren't already going somewhere else? A kid with an 1200 SAT has every opportunity to succeed...if he is recruitable.

My proposal: admit based on class rank, not SAT's. Top 20% of one's high school class should be a start.
The standards at all high schools are not equal. Both rank and SAT should be used (NEVER the SAT alone), as that was the purpose of the test - to be used in conjunction with grades, to allow students who did not go to elite prep schools to show that their academic abilities were just as good as those who did.

Some private schools are not elite prep schools. I know because I went to a couple. There are some denominational schools out that are private but far from elite, yet some parents want to send their children there because they feel like it is a better atmosphere for them. And using rank or the SAT would be wrong for these students, who use a standardized test most of you probably have not heard of before, the CAT (California Achievement Test). Outside of the aforementioned schools, it's rare to see a CAT used.

For this reason, I actually prefer the ACT (American College Entrance Exam). It has a useful purpose, and everyone used to use it at one point or another. I have heard a lot of griping and bellyaching about the ACT, but I personally have no problem with it. It's the only way to really measure students across the board.

I didn't say all private schools are elite prep schools. I didn't use the word private at all.
07-04-2021 11:24 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #122
RE: FCS is a hot mess
(07-02-2021 08:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Is St. Thomas' long term FCS home expected to be the Pioneer League or are they looking to add scholarships after their transition?

This article, when initially published, said according to sources St Thomas is exploring moving to full scholarship football by 2030. That part was later removed. IMO, UST asked the author to remove it.
https://m.startribune.com/university-of-...562174952/
07-04-2021 05:02 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #123
RE: FCS is a hot mess
(07-04-2021 05:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(07-02-2021 08:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Is St. Thomas' long term FCS home expected to be the Pioneer League or are they looking to add scholarships after their transition?

This article, when initially published, said according to sources St Thomas is exploring moving to full scholarship football by 2030. That part was later removed. IMO, UST asked the author to remove it.
https://m.startribune.com/university-of-...562174952/

That would make sense ... they would want to get their basketball and hockey transition finished and have some solid experience with the ongoing resource commitments and donor support before tackling the question of whether to upgrade to FCS scholarship football.
07-04-2021 09:29 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #124
FCS is a hot mess
(07-04-2021 11:24 AM)NJMark Wrote:  
(07-03-2021 08:14 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 03:04 PM)NJMark Wrote:  
(06-29-2021 11:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-29-2021 10:47 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  DFW: so you want students who shouldn't be there on the football team?

That's not what I said. When the Patriot League allows recruits to sign at Bucknell and Fordham that cannot even be recruited by Georgetown, that's a competitive imbalance.

How many football players are walking in the door within one standard deviation of Georgetown's published SAT range of 1420-1560 that aren't already going somewhere else? A kid with an 1200 SAT has every opportunity to succeed...if he is recruitable.

My proposal: admit based on class rank, not SAT's. Top 20% of one's high school class should be a start.
The standards at all high schools are not equal. Both rank and SAT should be used (NEVER the SAT alone), as that was the purpose of the test - to be used in conjunction with grades, to allow students who did not go to elite prep schools to show that their academic abilities were just as good as those who did.

Some private schools are not elite prep schools. I know because I went to a couple. There are some denominational schools out that are private but far from elite, yet some parents want to send their children there because they feel like it is a better atmosphere for them. And using rank or the SAT would be wrong for these students, who use a standardized test most of you probably have not heard of before, the CAT (California Achievement Test). Outside of the aforementioned schools, it's rare to see a CAT used.

For this reason, I actually prefer the ACT (American College Entrance Exam). It has a useful purpose, and everyone used to use it at one point or another. I have heard a lot of griping and bellyaching about the ACT, but I personally have no problem with it. It's the only way to really measure students across the board.

I didn't say all private schools are elite prep schools. I didn't use the word private at all.

I used to pride myself on reading comprehension, but I see that I have slipped over the years and/or I made very bad assumption about what you were saying about private schools.

Please do let me stress to you that I didn't mean or even imply that you were anti-ACT. You did not come across that way to me at all, and I truly mean that. My comment on that is for people who have really protested using the ACT. Pretty dumb, IMHO.

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(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 07:15 AM by DawgNBama.)
07-06-2021 07:13 AM
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Gemofthehills Online
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Post: #125
RE: FCS is a hot mess
(07-04-2021 10:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-27-2021 01:14 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-24-2021 10:53 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2021 11:44 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(06-23-2021 11:36 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  No - FCS is still DI. And it isn't a mess. And FCS produces a True National Championship - something App St will never play for again.


Simmer Donna.

FCS is DI but has active elements of DII (Patriot/NEC) and DIII (Ivy and Pioneer). There's two championships being played for by leagues classified as FCS. Hot. Mess.


App State fans wouldn't have the school move back to that classification for any reason. I was in the stands for the first bowl win and it was more exciting than my time in Chattanooga at both the 2nd or the 3rd FCS championship.

Almost anyone that was anything 25 years ago, is no longer IAA. App State, GA Southern, Troy, MT, WKU, Boise State, Marshall and even ULM. Just in those 8 schools accounts for 14 IAA National Titles with GA Southern (6), App State (3), Marshall (2), WKU (1), Boise State (1) and ULM (1). I guess if you want to you could add UMass and add another IAA title as they won the 1998 National Title.

There is no parity at the top of IAA like there was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. As we speak there is probably only 4-6 programs that could legitimately contend and win a national championship.

IAA is a jumbled mess with those that fully fund their program like North Dakota State and JMU to those who only have football to stay in the conference because its required ie. VMI and Central Conn. State.

Then you have the Ivy, Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC that like to play by their own rules.

But the thing is there is probably less that 5 schools that could actually be IA and do it the right way.

And for those who claim Marshall will never see a national championship. Thats fine, esp if I get to watch my Thundering Herd compete with like minded schools and occasionally play one of the so called elite programs. In the next few years Marshall has H/H with ECU, App State, Navy, VA Tech and games against Notre Dame and Penn State.

This is one of the main reasons I wanted App out of the SoCon, or as we called it the SmallCon, and FCS. Simply got tired of playing at home to 25K+ in a great atmosphere then going on the road to play in front of 5,000 fans (except GaSo) in mostly silent stadiums.

Except ... many FBS schools play in front of 5,000 actual fans as well. It's really pretty common.

07-coffee3

FBS and FCS schools do have an issue with counting attendance. Been to several FBS games in Alabama where the people there were nowhere need the reported attendance. 5000 would have been generous. You can count some the FCS games as guilty of the same practice. For the record UAT and Auburn games were not the ones Im speaking of.
07-06-2021 07:36 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #126
RE: FCS is a hot mess
(07-06-2021 07:36 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 10:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-27-2021 01:14 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-24-2021 10:53 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2021 11:44 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Simmer Donna.

FCS is DI but has active elements of DII (Patriot/NEC) and DIII (Ivy and Pioneer). There's two championships being played for by leagues classified as FCS. Hot. Mess.


App State fans wouldn't have the school move back to that classification for any reason. I was in the stands for the first bowl win and it was more exciting than my time in Chattanooga at both the 2nd or the 3rd FCS championship.

Almost anyone that was anything 25 years ago, is no longer IAA. App State, GA Southern, Troy, MT, WKU, Boise State, Marshall and even ULM. Just in those 8 schools accounts for 14 IAA National Titles with GA Southern (6), App State (3), Marshall (2), WKU (1), Boise State (1) and ULM (1). I guess if you want to you could add UMass and add another IAA title as they won the 1998 National Title.

There is no parity at the top of IAA like there was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. As we speak there is probably only 4-6 programs that could legitimately contend and win a national championship.

IAA is a jumbled mess with those that fully fund their program like North Dakota State and JMU to those who only have football to stay in the conference because its required ie. VMI and Central Conn. State.

Then you have the Ivy, Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC that like to play by their own rules.

But the thing is there is probably less that 5 schools that could actually be IA and do it the right way.

And for those who claim Marshall will never see a national championship. Thats fine, esp if I get to watch my Thundering Herd compete with like minded schools and occasionally play one of the so called elite programs. In the next few years Marshall has H/H with ECU, App State, Navy, VA Tech and games against Notre Dame and Penn State.

This is one of the main reasons I wanted App out of the SoCon, or as we called it the SmallCon, and FCS. Simply got tired of playing at home to 25K+ in a great atmosphere then going on the road to play in front of 5,000 fans (except GaSo) in mostly silent stadiums.

Except ... many FBS schools play in front of 5,000 actual fans as well. It's really pretty common.

07-coffee3

FBS and FCS schools do have an issue with counting attendance. Been to several FBS games in Alabama where the people there were nowhere need the reported attendance. 5000 would have been generous. You can count some the FCS games as guilty of the same practice. For the record UAT and Auburn games were not the ones Im speaking of.

Some have called for a "culling" of FBS by 30 or so members. We could probably make that happen if the NCAA actually enforced the 15,000 average attendance rule by closing the various loopholes and absurdities, like some MAC schools buying their own tickets to meet the thresshold.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 08:38 AM by quo vadis.)
07-06-2021 08:34 AM
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