You guys pretty much ignore G5 schools, thinking they're unworthy of FBS, so I'm incredibly surprised you're not jumping at the chance to whittle the chaff from the wheat.

(06-14-2020 09:38 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  But has that success translated into NC or NY5 bowls? Not really, so I think (especially for Navy and Army) the Patriot League (with peer institutions) could make sense.

Will the Patriot League provide Army and/or Navy with NC opportunities or NY5 bowl ties?

(I consider the Service Academies to be FBS worthy)

Many posters have already made good points here - I'll shout out to Foreverandever but he's not alone. So I only need to make a few points.

(06-14-2020 09:38 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  But has that success translated into NC or NY5 bowls? Not really, so I think (especially for Navy and Army) the Patriot League (with peer institutions) could make sense.

In five years in the AAC, Navy thrice has been in the NY6 conversation Thanksgiving weekend or after. If your metric for FBS-worthiness is relevance to the six bowls involved in the CFP, then Navy is ahead of about 50 non-contract-bowl-conference teams, all the non-ND independents, and a lot of contract-bowl-conference teams, maybe half or so.

(06-14-2020 09:46 AM)goofus Wrote:  I think the main issue with the service academies is not with their football record but with their ability to field men's and women's teams for other other sports.

Plus the football teams seem to be limited in the type of offense they can play, since they all play run oriented option offenses. The option works because defenses rarely see it, but once you join a FBS conference, other coaches get used to it and it becomes less effective.

All are reasons that is doubtful they will ever join a P5 conference as an all sports member.

First off how long does it take for conference coaches to get used to the offense? In Paul Johnson's 11th and final year at Georgia Tech, the Jackets finished second in their division, the seventh time in eleven years finishing 1st or 2nd in the division. Oh, and led the nation in rushing yards per game. In Navy's fifth year in the AAC, finished 7-1, tied for first in the West - oh, and led the nation in rushing yards per game. We're clearly still waiting for that in the American...

On another point, Navy would absolutely prefer a football-only invitation if a contract-bowl-conference came calling. Hmmm...that's what pretty much exactly what happened in 2011 and 2012. Navy agreed to a football-only membership in a BCS auto-qualifying conference. Navy did that because it was the path to continued presence in the top level of college football in these times of great change. Now Navy is completely onboard with the AAC Strategic Plan and P6, but if the conference gets completely blown up or something, Navy will again choose a path to continue presence in the top level of college football. Anyone who says that he thinks Navy would not be interested in joining one of the contract-bowl-conferences -- if the strategic environment made it a requirement, of course -- is ignorant.

What about "the ability to field men's and women's teams for other sports?" Did you know Navy competes in 33 varsity intercollegiate sports? Hmmm...Navy Women's Lacrosse was in the Final Four a couple years ago. Men's lax is trying to get back to power status (lost the national championship game in 2004 and then lost some mojo) and optimistic. Wrestling almost always has nationally ranked individuals, and All-Americans after Nationals. Swimming and Diving on both men's and women's sides has our share of national qualifiers. T&F, X-country less often. Baseball has acquitted itself okay in CWS Regionals when representing the Patriot League (as has Army baseball).
Maybe you're actually just talking about men's and women's basketball? Yeah, David Robinson is not walking through that door. It is nice that we hired our MBB head coach away from Penn State, though. Neither team has gone to the tournament lately from our one-bid league. But the women have notched a WNIT win or two, ha ha.
Of course we'd prefer football only. And before that gets scoffed at, I believe the BigXII said football-only was on the table in the 2016 expansion sham.

(06-14-2020 09:46 AM)goofus Wrote:  I think the main issue with the service academies is not with their football record but with their ability to field men's and women's teams for other other sports.

Plus the football teams seem to be limited in the type of offense they can play, since they all play run oriented option offenses. The option works because defenses rarely see it, but once you join a FBS conference, other coaches get used to it and it becomes less effective.

All are reasons that is doubtful they will ever join a P5 conference as an all sports member.

How has Navy football done in the FBS conference known as the American Athletic Association?

(06-14-2020 11:12 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 10:34 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 09:38 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  But has that success translated into NC or NY5 bowls? Not really, so I think (especially for Navy and Army) the Patriot League (with peer institutions) could make sense.

So by this logic you imply that all but about 15 schools should drop down to the FCS?

Way more than that, ...

Then you come very close to agreeing, except you are saying by this logic all but:

Quote: ... every program not named OU, Oregon, Washington, USC, ND, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Clemson, Florida St, Penn St, Wisconsin, Michigan, Texas and maybe Michigan St/Baylor/TCU.

Which is "all but" 16 to 19. I don't see how "way more than that" fits your response, when your lower end is only ONE more who would stay in FBS on that logic.

___________________________________

(06-14-2020 03:47 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  You guys pretty much ignore G5 schools, thinking they're unworthy of FBS, so I'm incredibly surprised you're not jumping at the chance to whittle the chaff from the wheat.

Unless "you guys" are defined to be the specific group that ignore Go5 schools, this is simply an empirically false statement, so it can be safely ignored.

(06-14-2020 09:29 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 09:18 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Given their different mission and (relative) lack of success at the FBS level, would dropping to FCS make sense? Army and Navy could easily find homes in the Patriot League, Air Force in the Big Sky, maybe. In the unlikely event this happened, would it set off any FBS realignment?

Since 2003 Navy has averaged 8 wins and has had only two losing season 2018 (3-10) and 2011 (5-7). During that time they have had four ten win seasons, basically one every four years.

Four out of five years in the AAC a bowl team, including a trip to the championship game with a legit shot at a NY6 in 2016. They have also tied for the AAC west division two other years. Several top 25 rankings.

Navy also has more football history than any school not in the p5 and a bunch who are p5. Including a Heisman, several NY6's, and a national championship. Edit: per a better Navy source than I will ever be, a correction, 2 Heismans. My apologies, the program is far too storied with multiple NY6 bowl appearences including Orange, Rose, Sugar and Cotton when those were the FOUR New Years bowls that it's easy to overlook accomplishments that other programs would consider their best historical moment.

Its amusing a UConn fan is suggesting programs that have played top level football since there was top flight football or in Air Force's case since they were created, should drop down.

UConn would die to have Navy's record in football. This sounds like yet another disgruntled UConn fan stuck in a non football conference and knowing his school will always be second rate in football. AFA and even Army would be more than good choices for any G5 conference and at least 2 P5 conferences.

(06-14-2020 09:18 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Given their different mission and (relative) lack of success at the FBS level, would dropping to FCS make sense? Army and Navy could easily find homes in the Patriot League, Air Force in the Big Sky, maybe. In the unlikely event this happened, would it set off any FBS realignment?

What??
Navy and Air Force were ranked in the top 25 last year.

(06-14-2020 04:42 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 11:12 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 10:34 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 09:38 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  But has that success translated into NC or NY5 bowls? Not really, so I think (especially for Navy and Army) the Patriot League (with peer institutions) could make sense.

So by this logic you imply that all but about 15 schools should drop down to the FCS?

Way more than that, ...

Then you come very close to agreeing, except you are saying by this logic all but:

Quote: ... every program not named OU, Oregon, Washington, USC, ND, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Clemson, Florida St, Penn St, Wisconsin, Michigan, Texas and maybe Michigan St/Baylor/TCU.

Which is "all but" 16 to 19. I don't see how "way more than that" fits your response, when your lower end is only ONE more who would stay in FBS on that logic.

___________________________________

(06-14-2020 03:47 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  You guys pretty much ignore G5 schools, thinking they're unworthy of FBS, so I'm incredibly surprised you're not jumping at the chance to whittle the chaff from the wheat.

Unless "you guys" are defined to be the specific group that ignore Go5 schools, this is simply an empirically false statement, so it can be safely ignored.

I misread your quote (while agreeing in principle with idea) as another 15 teams would need to drop along with the Academies. However if you were saying only about 15 schools would be left (which when read correctly is what you were saying) then yes I agree with your assessment, not just in principle but in detail as well.

(06-14-2020 09:18 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Given their different mission and (relative) lack of success at the FBS level, would dropping to FCS make sense? Army and Navy could easily find homes in the Patriot League, Air Force in the Big Sky, maybe. In the unlikely event this happened, would it set off any FBS realignment?

How often do you hang out with DavidSt in his mom’s basement???

If the academies were winning 3 games/yr or less for two decades this might be an appropriate conversation but right now they are doing host fine.

(06-14-2020 06:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the academies were winning 3 games/yr or less for two decades this might be an appropriate conversation but right now they are doing host fine.

It ebbs and flows. There have been times in the distant past, like the 1940s and 1960s, where Army or Navy have been national powers. On the other hand, for the first three decades I watched college football, from 1970 - 2000, they were abject basket cases, the easiest kind of creampuff. Right now, they are above-average opponents.

The service academies should be FBS for as long as they want to be.

(06-14-2020 10:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I wish the ignore feature hid people’s threads too.

Me too. I think OP needs to take a break

(06-14-2020 09:18 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Given their different mission and (relative) lack of success at the FBS level, would dropping to FCS make sense? Army and Navy could easily find homes in the Patriot League, Air Force in the Big Sky, maybe. In the unlikely event this happened, would it set off any FBS realignment?

Communist. Why do you hate America?

Troll thread... Nothing to see here

(06-14-2020 07:48 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  Troll thread... Nothing to see here

Correct.

Remember, every cadet/midshipman is PAID. There is no 85 scholarship limit with the military academies. Any man or woman can play there.

All cadets are paid!

Plus the admission standards are FAR tougher than FCS

Remember, folks, the OP argued in another thread just the other day that CFB teams that finished in the top 10 last season, or were in the playoff the year before last, or won the national championship only a few years before that, are "fallen".

(06-14-2020 05:46 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  I misread your quote (while agreeing in principle with idea) as another 15 teams would need to drop along with the Academies. However if you were saying only about 15 schools would be left (which when read correctly is what you were saying) then yes I agree with your assessment, not just in principle but in detail as well.

Well, Bobcat2013's quote, but no dramas, misreads will happen. Goodness knows I've replied on the back of a couple or three misreads over time.

(06-15-2020 04:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 05:46 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  I misread your quote (while agreeing in principle with idea) as another 15 teams would need to drop along with the Academies. However if you were saying only about 15 schools would be left (which when read correctly is what you were saying) then yes I agree with your assessment, not just in principle but in detail as well.

Well, Bobcat2013's quote, but no dramas, misreads will happen. Goodness knows I've replied on the back of a couple or three misreads over time.

I was just saying that if OP had it his way, there would only be like 15 FBS teams left. Which would be ridiculous. Not my stance at all. I dont think the academies should drop down at all.

(06-15-2020 08:31 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(06-15-2020 04:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-14-2020 05:46 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  I misread your quote (while agreeing in principle with idea) as another 15 teams would need to drop along with the Academies. However if you were saying only about 15 schools would be left (which when read correctly is what you were saying) then yes I agree with your assessment, not just in principle but in detail as well.

Well, Bobcat2013's quote, but no dramas, misreads will happen. Goodness knows I've replied on the back of a couple or three misreads over time.

I was just saying that if OP had it his way, there would only be like 15 FBS teams left. Which would be ridiculous. Not my stance at all. I dont think the academies should drop down at all.

I agreed 100%, both on what would happen and on how ridiculous it would be. Turned out Foreverandever agreed with you, but misread it as saying 15 or so would be leaving.

It seems there is widespread agreement on the foolishness the argument of the OP that every school that is not expecting to be in the CFP sometime in the coming decade should abandon the Football BOWL Subdivision.

(06-14-2020 09:01 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  Plus the admission standards are FAR tougher than FCS

Why would you post something like that without even considering what those words actually mean?

Ever heard of the Ivy League? I get that it's tough to get a letter for the academies, but calm down on the ignorant hyperbole.