(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Delaware State has already talked about the NEC at its BOT meeting. They may not want to be the next move but they appear willing to consider a move.

(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Delaware State has already talked about the NEC at its BOT meeting. They may not want to be the next move but they appear willing to consider a move.

Even if so, by Bruce's logic, DSU won't be the next one to leave because they would fear their alumni and other fans irrationally blaming them alone for making the MEAC unqualified as a multisport conference. Therefore no one else can leave the MEAC and the conference is saved...

(06-30-2020 10:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Delaware State has already talked about the NEC at its BOT meeting. They may not want to be the next move but they appear willing to consider a move.

Even if so, by Bruce's logic, DSU won't be the next one to leave because they would fear their alumni and other fans irrationally blaming them alone for making the MEAC unqualified as a multisport conference. Therefore no one else can leave the MEAC and the conference is saved...

Understood, but I think Delaware State talking (relatively) openly about a move after FAMU and B-C announced their departures means they're more amenable to leaving. They may not want to be the event-horizon trigger, but if the choice is moving to the NEC and hoping the MEAC holds firm, then falls apart and sends it to the CIAA, I have to think they'll look after their own interests, even if it means consigning Coppin State and UMES to D2.

Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Delaware State has already talked about the NEC at its BOT meeting. They may not want to be the next move but they appear willing to consider a move.

Even if so, by Bruce's logic, DSU won't be the next one to leave because they would fear their alumni and other fans irrationally blaming them alone for making the MEAC unqualified as a multisport conference. Therefore no one else can leave the MEAC and the conference is saved...

Understood, but I think Delaware State talking (relatively) openly about a move after FAMU and B-C announced their departures means they're more amenable to leaving. They may not want to be the event-horizon trigger, but if the choice is moving to the NEC and hoping the MEAC holds firm, then falls apart and sends it to the CIAA, I have to think they'll look after their own interests, even if it means consigning Coppin State and UMES to D2.

Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

Definitely agree with you. Schools look out for number one first and foremost.

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

In this unique time in our society, welcoming a HBCU into a PWI conference would generate a lot of positive press

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 09:32 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Delaware State has already talked about the NEC at its BOT meeting. They may not want to be the next move but they appear willing to consider a move.

Even if so, by Bruce's logic, DSU won't be the next one to leave because they would fear their alumni and other fans irrationally blaming them alone for making the MEAC unqualified as a multisport conference. Therefore no one else can leave the MEAC and the conference is saved...

Understood, but I think Delaware State talking (relatively) openly about a move after FAMU and B-C announced their departures means they're more amenable to leaving. They may not want to be the event-horizon trigger, but if the choice is moving to the NEC and hoping the MEAC holds firm, then falls apart and sends it to the CIAA, I have to think they'll look after their own interests, even if it means consigning Coppin State and UMES to D2.

An NEC invitation might be Delaware St's only chance to remain Division 1. They're not getting invited anywhere else. DSU can't risk remaining in the MEAC and putting its fate in 7 other schools.

(06-30-2020 11:24 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

In this unique time in our society, welcoming a HBCU into a PWI conference would generate a lot of positive press

Listening to ASUN Commissioner's interview with HBCU sports, I see him pushing for adding MEAC leftovers if the conference gets raided again. He was very pro-HBCU and pro-"we all look out for each other". Of course, he has to convince ASUN presidents of the same.

(06-30-2020 12:23 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:24 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

In this unique time in our society, welcoming a HBCU into a PWI conference would generate a lot of positive press

Listening to ASUN Commissioner's interview with HBCU sports, I see him pushing for adding MEAC leftovers if the conference gets raided again. He was very pro-HBCU and pro-"we all look out for each other". Of course, he has to convince ASUN presidents of the same.

I imagine there will be at least one school opposed....

(06-30-2020 12:30 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 12:23 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:24 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

In this unique time in our society, welcoming a HBCU into a PWI conference would generate a lot of positive press

Listening to ASUN Commissioner's interview with HBCU sports, I see him pushing for adding MEAC leftovers if the conference gets raided again. He was very pro-HBCU and pro-"we all look out for each other". Of course, he has to convince ASUN presidents of the same.

I imagine there will be at least one school opposed....

I'm sure your referring to Liberty. If they're going to be in a low major conference why not share it with some HBCUs. Looking at it from an entirely cyncial perspective, being in a conference with HBCUs would allow them to better counteract any race/social issues thrown their way

Liberty being in the ASUN makes it very hard for an HBCU to move to the ASUN, especially with Jerry Falwell Jr. running his mouth.

Falwell Jr. is more the problem than LU the institution.

For right now, a striped down MEAC is a better home for the MEAC schools than the ASUN would be. The instant a football school leaves the MEAC the ASUN will be there to catch a few members.

While a bit a goofball, the ASUN commissioner had a keen eye for out of the box solutions. I really hope that one day he’s able to recruit that FCS conference but I think he’s going to have to wait until some D2’s are ready to come up.

One thought, if Monmouth and Robert Morris were willing, would be for those two to play football in the MEAC with their 6 schools, while the 5 Big South schools had UNA and Kenn St as affiliates.

I also wonder what Hampton and N.C. A&T’s reasons were for leaving. If it was travel, maybe they’d be willing to go back now that there are no FL trips.

(06-30-2020 01:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For right now, a striped down MEAC is a better home for the MEAC schools than the ASUN would be. The instant a football school leaves the MEAC the ASUN will be there to catch a few members.

While a bit a goofball, the ASUN commissioner had a keen eye for out of the box solutions. I really hope that one day he’s able to recruit that FCS conference but I think he’s going to have to wait until some D2’s are ready to come up.

One thought, if Monmouth and Robert Morris were willing, would be for those two to play football in the MEAC with their 6 schools, while the 5 Big South schools had UNA and Kenn St as affiliates.

I also wonder what Hampton and N.C. A&T’s reasons were for leaving. If it was travel, maybe they’d be willing to go back now that there are no FL trips.

Hampton has been wanting out of the MEAC for awhile. They wanted to go the Tennessee St. route and forgo the traditional HBCU conference affiliation mold. When they left I'm assuming NC A&T began looking for a more travel friendly conference as Winston Salem St had just recently given up the MEAC and with Hampton gone the MEAC was becoming a Capitol based conference with 2 Florida schools.

Big fan of.the idea of the 2 northern Big South football only schools playing in the MEAC. They should help each other out and work together to decrease travel costs

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Except I did not say that, did I?

In warning against everyone casually assuming that all the alumni bases of the different MEAC schools would react in the same way, you seem to be drawing the inference that I am arguing that exact opposite.

Different schools are different. For instance, in a recent year Howard had $5m in annual donations to its endowment and $12m in income from its endowments used to support University activities, where a GAO study places the median HBCU endowment at $12m total.

Indeed, when I argued that if the (seemingly bored with his regular job) ASUN commissioner wanted to dislodge Howard he ought to make a hard play for NCCU or Norfolk, that implicitly assumes that the different schools might have different expectations regarding an alumni backlash against the move.

It wouldn't be shocking if alumni of Delaware State (evidently outside of the ASUN Florida/Virginia/Louisville "triangle of interest") could be persuaded to view an NEC invite as being rescued from getting pushed down to Division 1.

(06-30-2020 02:05 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:46 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.

If no one is willing to be next school to escape the MEAC, as you say, why would Delaware State be any more inclined to do so than Howard?

Except I did not say that, did I?

In warning against everyone casually assuming that all the alumni bases of the different MEAC schools would react in the same way, you seem to be drawing the inference that I am arguing that exact opposite.

Different schools are different. For instance, in a recent year Howard had $5m in annual donations to its endowment and $12m in income from its endowments used to support University activities, where a GAO study places the median HBCU endowment at $12m total.

Indeed, when I argued that if the (seemingly bored with his regular job) ASUN commissioner wanted to dislodge Howard he ought to make a hard play for NCCU or Norfolk, that implicitly assumes that the different schools might have different expectations regarding an alumni backlash against the move.

It wouldn't be shocking if alumni of Delaware State (evidently outside of the ASUN Florida/Virginia/Louisville "triangle of interest") could be persuaded to view an NEC invite as being rescued from getting pushed down to Division 1.

OK, this is a more reasonable take. Thanks for clarifying.

(06-30-2020 11:24 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 11:12 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Cannot imagine the CAA inviting Delaware State, even as a backdoor method of getting Howard. Delaware would lay a blue egg.

In this unique time in our society, welcoming a HBCU into a PWI conference would generate a lot of positive press

True but they can get that with a school that fits their profile in Howard (and I guess Hampton, but they just joined the Big South and were turned down multiple times).

For those that are mentioning MEAC schools or any school along the eastern side of the Atlantic Coastal States having football in the ASUN needs to go back and listen to the HBCU Gameday interview again.

Gumbart was asked what states was the ASUN targeting. His response was in a triangle from Louisville Kentucky to over where Liberty is in Virginia and to the tip of Florida.

He didn’t even mention or alluded to any schools east of Lynchburg Virginia or outside of the triangle.

(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)North Ala Supporter Wrote:  For those that are mentioning MEAC schools or any school along the eastern side of the Atlantic Coastal States having football in the ASUN needs to go back and listen to the HBCU Gameday interview again.

Gumbart was asked what states was the ASUN targeting. His response was in a triangle from Louisville Kentucky to over where Liberty is in Virginia and to the tip of Florida.

He didn’t even mention or alluded to any schools east of Lynchburg Virginia or outside of the triangle.

SC State is within that triangle. NCCU is just ever so slightly outside of it, and Norfolk State is in the same state as Liberty. It's not unreasonable to draw the conclusion that the ASUN could target those schools. They're close enough to that triangle.

(06-30-2020 03:03 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 02:42 PM)North Ala Supporter Wrote:  For those that are mentioning MEAC schools or any school along the eastern side of the Atlantic Coastal States having football in the ASUN needs to go back and listen to the HBCU Gameday interview again.

Gumbart was asked what states was the ASUN targeting. His response was in a triangle from Louisville Kentucky to over where Liberty is in Virginia and to the tip of Florida.

He didn’t even mention or alluded to any schools east of Lynchburg Virginia or outside of the triangle.

SC State is within that triangle. NCCU is just ever so slightly outside of it, and Norfolk State is in the same state as Liberty. It's not unreasonable to draw the conclusion that the ASUN could target those schools. They're close enough to that triangle.

Not unreasonable, but not likely to happen...

Why, because during the interview, he basically said he wanted to help keep the MEAC together. So if anything happens, it's more likely to be partnerships until both the ASUN and MEAC expand. On the MEAC side, they could find someone to secure AQ spots and geography. On the ASUN side, they would have to find football schools to start sponsoring football.

So, the ASUN could drop their affiliation with the Big South for football, and the MEAC could partner with the ASUN for football.

(06-30-2020 07:00 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  Not unreasonable, but not likely to happen...

Why, because during the interview, he basically said he wanted to help keep the MEAC together. So if anything happens, it's more likely to be partnerships until both the ASUN and MEAC expand. On the MEAC side, they could find someone to secure AQ spots and geography. On the ASUN side, they would have to find football schools to start sponsoring football.

So, the ASUN could drop their affiliation with the Big South for football, and the MEAC could partner with the ASUN for football.

Yea, I don't think he actually wants to take three or four MEAC schools, I think he wants to use the threat of taking three or four MEAC schools to take over the entire MEAC as a pooled conference office. You can then run two legally separate 8- or 9-school conferences as functional divisions of one umbrella group, but with double the NCAA auto-bids.