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ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #121
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-28-2020 04:12 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-28-2020 03:39 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 02:22 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I do think Howard finds a home. Morgan St, Coppin St, and UMES may be D-II bound.

I agree that Howard will be fine.
I'm guessing they may just threaten/force/guilt their way into the Ivy League at this point.
It's quite possible that the Ivy League would then either give them previous titles from member schools or just make sure they win all titles for the next few years.

I don't think anyone could threaten/force/guilt their way in the Ivy League.

He knows that, he’s pushing a point that quite frankly needs to be made in the spin room because it doesn’t have a ******* thing to do with the conversation (edit for improper word choice)
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 10:02 AM by Cyniclone.)
06-28-2020 04:46 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #122
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-28-2020 03:39 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(06-27-2020 02:22 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I do think Howard finds a home. Morgan St, Coppin St, and UMES may be D-II bound.

I agree that Howard will be fine.
I'm guessing they may just threaten/force/guilt their way into the Ivy League at this point.
It's quite possible that the Ivy League would then either give them previous titles from member schools or just make sure they win all titles for the next few years.

I'm sorry, but Georgetown has far better credentials than Howard when it comes to Ivy League membership. And where is Georgetown right now? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Ivy League.
06-29-2020 03:04 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #123
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
Come on, Howard is selective, but they aren’t Ivy. Patriot at best.
06-29-2020 07:42 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #124
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
The Ivy League isn’t taking anyone. Howard will end up in the Patriot or maybe the Colonial.
06-29-2020 09:40 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #125
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 03:04 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm sorry, but Georgetown has far better credentials than Howard when it comes to Ivy League membership. And where is Georgetown right now? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Ivy League.
As Nerdlinger says, its a Spin Room post wandering into a conference realignment thread to derail it.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 12:39 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-29-2020 09:55 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #126
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
I would like Howard in the CAA, but we have 12 football and 10 basketball teams, so I'm not sure expansion makes sense right now.

If you offered me Elon for Howard as a swap, I'd take that in a heartbeat.
06-29-2020 09:57 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #127
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
Man, CAA fans sure hate Elon.

My wife went to Elon, and I think it's a great school. Gorgeous campus. What's the beef with them?
06-29-2020 11:57 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #128
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Man, CAA fans sure hate Elon.

My wife went to Elon, and I think it's a great school. Gorgeous campus. What's the beef with them?

To me, they just don't add much.

The CAA started out as a mid atlantic/VA centric conference, and it kinda lost that along the way. Most of the "recent" adds (Starting in like 2001) are in major cities instead, such as Hofstra/Long Island, Northeastern/Boston, Drexel/Philly, Towson/Baltimore, College of Charleston. This helps the schools in the conference get their names out, and W&M has large alumni groups in all of those cities (A lot of our general student body also comes from those cities), so we like playing games there.

The only adds that aren't from large metros are Delaware and Elon. Delaware is a state flagship, and was in the same football conference as a lot of CAA members, so they were a natural rivalry and a great addition.

Elon is maybe 40 minutes from Greensboro, so it isn't the middle of nowhere, but it's not really a city most CAA teams care about. They've started to invest in facilities, which is nice, but really don't have much of a fanbase, or much success.

Since joining the CAA, in football they have a 18-29 conference football record, with 1 playoff appearance, and have posted 1 winning season in men's basketball - both conference and overall (18-14, with a 10-8 CAA record).

To me, it's just unclear what the CAA saw in Elon. Maybe some of their athletic programs are trending upwards? It's a fine academic school, but it's not some Ivy league powerhouse that bumps up the conference's prestige as a whole. And I have friends who go there, I agree, nice campus, but as a conference mate, I don't really care about their architecture.

From what I know, the CAA wanted Davidson, but the A10 swooped in with an invite, so Elon felt like a reach/backfill.
06-29-2020 12:35 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #129
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Man, CAA fans sure hate Elon.

My wife went to Elon, and I think it's a great school. Gorgeous campus. What's the beef with them?

To me, they just don't add much.

The CAA started out as a mid atlantic/VA centric conference, and it kinda lost that along the way. Most of the "recent" adds (Starting in like 2001) are in major cities instead, such as Hofstra/Long Island, Northeastern/Boston, Drexel/Philly, Towson/Baltimore, College of Charleston. This helps the schools in the conference get their names out, and W&M has large alumni groups in all of those cities (A lot of our general student body also comes from those cities), so we like playing games there.

The only adds that aren't from large metros are Delaware and Elon. Delaware is a state flagship, and was in the same football conference as a lot of CAA members, so they were a natural rivalry and a great addition.

Elon is maybe 40 minutes from Greensboro, so it isn't the middle of nowhere, but it's not really a city most CAA teams care about. They've started to invest in facilities, which is nice, but really don't have much of a fanbase, or much success.

Since joining the CAA, in football they have a 18-29 conference football record, with 1 playoff appearance, and have posted 1 winning season in men's basketball - both conference and overall (18-14, with a 10-8 CAA record).

To me, it's just unclear what the CAA saw in Elon. Maybe some of their athletic programs are trending upwards? It's a fine academic school, but it's not some Ivy league powerhouse that bumps up the conference's prestige as a whole. And I have friends who go there, I agree, nice campus, but as a conference mate, I don't really care about their architecture.

From what I know, the CAA wanted Davidson, but the A10 swooped in with an invite, so Elon felt like a reach/backfill.

To me, it would have made more sense to encourage UNCW to leave than to bring in C of Charleston and Elon in and consolidate the footprint.
06-29-2020 01:57 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #130
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  From what I know, the CAA wanted Davidson, but the A10 swooped in with an invite, so Elon felt like a reach/backfill.

The way you heard some within the CAA, fans and from the FOIA, Elon may have been the best the conference could do because of the rejection of Stony Brook (and it seemed Albany wasn’t interested in moving by itself?). CoC as a “partner” for UNCW...ehh, I guess...but both CoC and Elon without Davidson?

Almost reads as vengeful toward SoCon. CAA doesn’t need Elon, but it’s nice to look tall over someone. And SoCon is no shlub.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 01:58 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
06-29-2020 01:57 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #131
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 01:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Man, CAA fans sure hate Elon.

My wife went to Elon, and I think it's a great school. Gorgeous campus. What's the beef with them?

To me, they just don't add much.

The CAA started out as a mid atlantic/VA centric conference, and it kinda lost that along the way. Most of the "recent" adds (Starting in like 2001) are in major cities instead, such as Hofstra/Long Island, Northeastern/Boston, Drexel/Philly, Towson/Baltimore, College of Charleston. This helps the schools in the conference get their names out, and W&M has large alumni groups in all of those cities (A lot of our general student body also comes from those cities), so we like playing games there.

The only adds that aren't from large metros are Delaware and Elon. Delaware is a state flagship, and was in the same football conference as a lot of CAA members, so they were a natural rivalry and a great addition.

Elon is maybe 40 minutes from Greensboro, so it isn't the middle of nowhere, but it's not really a city most CAA teams care about. They've started to invest in facilities, which is nice, but really don't have much of a fanbase, or much success.

Since joining the CAA, in football they have a 18-29 conference football record, with 1 playoff appearance, and have posted 1 winning season in men's basketball - both conference and overall (18-14, with a 10-8 CAA record).

To me, it's just unclear what the CAA saw in Elon. Maybe some of their athletic programs are trending upwards? It's a fine academic school, but it's not some Ivy league powerhouse that bumps up the conference's prestige as a whole. And I have friends who go there, I agree, nice campus, but as a conference mate, I don't really care about their architecture.

From what I know, the CAA wanted Davidson, but the A10 swooped in with an invite, so Elon felt like a reach/backfill.

To me, it would have made more sense to encourage UNCW to leave than to bring in C of Charleston and Elon in and consolidate the footprint.

Wilmington is a little out there, but they have a solid history of success, and draw pretty well fan wise - even at the northern CAA tournaments in Baltimore, they had a good crowd. 6 tournament appearances in the past 20 years in basketball, and them/CoC are probably the two best baseball teams in the conference, both have earned at large bids to the tournament.
06-29-2020 02:02 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #132
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Man, CAA fans sure hate Elon.

My wife went to Elon, and I think it's a great school. Gorgeous campus. What's the beef with them?

To me, they just don't add much.

The CAA started out as a mid atlantic/VA centric conference, and it kinda lost that along the way. Most of the "recent" adds (Starting in like 2001) are in major cities instead, such as Hofstra/Long Island, Northeastern/Boston, Drexel/Philly, Towson/Baltimore, College of Charleston. This helps the schools in the conference get their names out, and W&M has large alumni groups in all of those cities (A lot of our general student body also comes from those cities), so we like playing games there.

The only adds that aren't from large metros are Delaware and Elon. Delaware is a state flagship, and was in the same football conference as a lot of CAA members, so they were a natural rivalry and a great addition.

Elon is maybe 40 minutes from Greensboro, so it isn't the middle of nowhere, but it's not really a city most CAA teams care about. They've started to invest in facilities, which is nice, but really don't have much of a fanbase, or much success.

Since joining the CAA, in football they have a 18-29 conference football record, with 1 playoff appearance, and have posted 1 winning season in men's basketball - both conference and overall (18-14, with a 10-8 CAA record).

To me, it's just unclear what the CAA saw in Elon. Maybe some of their athletic programs are trending upwards? It's a fine academic school, but it's not some Ivy league powerhouse that bumps up the conference's prestige as a whole. And I have friends who go there, I agree, nice campus, but as a conference mate, I don't really care about their architecture.

From what I know, the CAA wanted Davidson, but the A10 swooped in with an invite, so Elon felt like a reach/backfill.
Interesting. I suppose part of the reason Elon was invited was that the CAA had to invite someone. They had lost ODU, Ga. State, VCU, and George Mason. In football, they also lost UMass. Davidson wasn't a willing partner. App State and Ga. Southern bypassed the CAA for the first FBS league they could get at the time, so who else were they supposed to get? Coastal Carolina, who's an inferior school to Elon? EKU, who'd be way out of place in an east coast league?

I guess from Elon's perspective, they wanted out of a SoCon that was also bleeding membership. Just as significantly, Elon wanted to be in a league where they recruit students. The Elon student parking lot is littered with tags from Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and of course North Carolina. Not so much South Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia. The CAA is where Elon students and alumni are much more than the SoCon was, even though the SoCon makes more geographic sense for travel.

I get your point that Burlington/Greensboro isn't a big, desirable market. Greensboro isn't exactly Boston or Philly or Baltimore (don't even get me started with how silly it is for the ACC to still hold tournaments there). But the bigger picture for the CAA is that Elon is a North Carolina school. NC is a state with now over 10 million people, good for ninth most in population. Elon is right in the middle of what geography nerds like me call the "Urban Crescent" series of smallish to large cities that goes along I-85 and I-40 from Gastonia northeast through Charlotte, High Point, Winston/Greensboro, Burlington, Chapel Hill, Durham, and finally Raleigh/Cary... I guess the CAA may have felt it would be good to double-down in NC with Elon and UNCW.

Academically, of course Elon is no Ivy League type of school. I do know the school they chomp at the bit to emulate is Richmond. They may not carry the academic reputation of the CAA, but they are not analogous to what Louisville is to the ACC, either.

As far as athletic success, I agree. They just can't get it together.
06-29-2020 02:15 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #133
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 02:15 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Interesting. I suppose part of the reason Elon was invited was that the CAA had to invite someone. They had lost ODU, Ga. State, VCU, and George Mason. In football, they also lost UMass. Davidson wasn't a willing partner. App State and Ga. Southern bypassed the CAA for the first FBS league they could get at the time, so who else were they supposed to get? Coastal Carolina, who's an inferior school to Elon? EKU, who'd be way out of place in an east coast league?

I guess from Elon's perspective, they wanted out of a SoCon that was also bleeding membership. Just as significantly, Elon wanted to be in a league where they recruit students. The Elon student parking lot is littered with tags from Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and of course North Carolina. Not so much South Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia. The CAA is where Elon students and alumni are much more than the SoCon was, even though the SoCon makes more geographic sense for travel.

That's also why High Point is hoping a massive capital improvement project and continued work on burnishing their academic bona fides will be enough to get them on the CAA's radar, because their student profile definitely leans toward the Northeast Corridor. Not sure that they can get there from the Big South, but they also are fast becoming an outlier in the BS, as least as far as spending goes. Problem for them is they're not ready for the CAA and the SoCon doesn't need to double their pleasure in the Triad.
06-29-2020 02:21 PM
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Post: #134
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 02:15 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
Interesting. I suppose part of the reason Elon was invited was that the CAA had to invite someone. They had lost ODU, Ga. State, VCU, and George Mason. In football, they also lost UMass. Davidson wasn't a willing partner. App State and Ga. Southern bypassed the CAA for the first FBS league they could get at the time, so who else were they supposed to get? Coastal Carolina, who's an inferior school to Elon? EKU, who'd be way out of place in an east coast league?

I guess from Elon's perspective, they wanted out of a SoCon that was also bleeding membership. Just as significantly, Elon wanted to be in a league where they recruit students. The Elon student parking lot is littered with tags from Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and of course North Carolina. Not so much South Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia. The CAA is where Elon students and alumni are much more than the SoCon was, even though the SoCon makes more geographic sense for travel.

I get your point that Burlington/Greensboro isn't a big, desirable market. Greensboro isn't exactly Boston or Philly or Baltimore (don't even get me started with how silly it is for the ACC to still hold tournaments there). But the bigger picture for the CAA is that Elon is a North Carolina school. NC is a state with now over 10 million people, good for ninth most in population. Elon is right in the middle of what geography nerds like me call the "Urban Crescent" series of smallish to large cities that goes along I-85 and I-40 from Gastonia northeast through Charlotte, High Point, Winston/Greensboro, Burlington, Chapel Hill, Durham, and finally Raleigh/Cary... I guess the CAA may have felt it would be good to double-down in NC with Elon and UNCW.

Academically, of course Elon is no Ivy League type of school. I do know the school they chomp at the bit to emulate is Richmond. They may not carry the academic reputation of the CAA, but they are not analogous to what Louisville is to the ACC, either.

As far as athletic success, I agree. They just can't get it together.

Cutting down the quotes a bit.

Elon probably was the best move for the CAA at the time, Furman/Wofford are both more out of the way than Elon, and High Point wasn't really there athletically yet. I just think the CAA got a little too needy to expand, after CoC joined, they would've been at 11 FB and 9 BB schools, which isn't an awful spot numbers wise, other than some weird bye weeks.

That said, hindsight is of course 20/20. Elon isn't an awful add, but I think had the CAA waited and wound up with Howard the conference would be in a better spot.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 02:34 PM by TDenverFan.)
06-29-2020 02:31 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #135
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 02:31 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 02:15 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 12:35 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 11:57 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
Interesting. I suppose part of the reason Elon was invited was that the CAA had to invite someone. They had lost ODU, Ga. State, VCU, and George Mason. In football, they also lost UMass. Davidson wasn't a willing partner. App State and Ga. Southern bypassed the CAA for the first FBS league they could get at the time, so who else were they supposed to get? Coastal Carolina, who's an inferior school to Elon? EKU, who'd be way out of place in an east coast league?

I guess from Elon's perspective, they wanted out of a SoCon that was also bleeding membership. Just as significantly, Elon wanted to be in a league where they recruit students. The Elon student parking lot is littered with tags from Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and of course North Carolina. Not so much South Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia. The CAA is where Elon students and alumni are much more than the SoCon was, even though the SoCon makes more geographic sense for travel.

I get your point that Burlington/Greensboro isn't a big, desirable market. Greensboro isn't exactly Boston or Philly or Baltimore (don't even get me started with how silly it is for the ACC to still hold tournaments there). But the bigger picture for the CAA is that Elon is a North Carolina school. NC is a state with now over 10 million people, good for ninth most in population. Elon is right in the middle of what geography nerds like me call the "Urban Crescent" series of smallish to large cities that goes along I-85 and I-40 from Gastonia northeast through Charlotte, High Point, Winston/Greensboro, Burlington, Chapel Hill, Durham, and finally Raleigh/Cary... I guess the CAA may have felt it would be good to double-down in NC with Elon and UNCW.

Academically, of course Elon is no Ivy League type of school. I do know the school they chomp at the bit to emulate is Richmond. They may not carry the academic reputation of the CAA, but they are not analogous to what Louisville is to the ACC, either.

As far as athletic success, I agree. They just can't get it together.

Cutting down the quotes a bit.

Elon probably was the best move for the CAA at the time, Furman/Wofford are both more out of the way than Elon, and High Point wasn't really there athletically yet. I just think the CAA got a little too needy to expand, after CoC joined, they would've been at 11 FB and 9 BB schools, which isn't an awful spot numbers wise, other than some weird bye weeks.

That said, hindsight is of course 20/20. Elon isn't an awful add, but I think had the CAA waited and wound up with Howard the conference would be in a better spot.
Maybe a spot for Howard will open up down the line. JMU is somewhat of a flight risk.
06-29-2020 02:40 PM
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Post: #136
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
The CAA is a round robin conference from Boston to Charleston. Anything that would help alleviate that insane travel schedule would be beneficial
06-29-2020 03:19 PM
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Post: #137
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 03:19 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The CAA is a round robin conference from Boston to Charleston. Anything that would help alleviate that insane travel schedule would be beneficial

Expand by four teams and go to divisions.
06-29-2020 06:44 PM
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RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-29-2020 06:44 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(06-29-2020 03:19 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The CAA is a round robin conference from Boston to Charleston. Anything that would help alleviate that insane travel schedule would be beneficial

Expand by four teams and go to divisions.

Work something out with the MEAC and allow the 2 conferences to reorganize based on geography while maintaining 2 autobids. Right now that would be 2 9 team conferences or an 8 team and a 10 team conference. Football would be combined under 1 roof.

The CAA has terrible leadership though and is not that forward thinking

Capitol Conference
Northeastern
Hoftsra
Delaware
Drexel
Towson
Delaware St.
Howard
UMES
Morgan St
Coppin St.

Mid Atlantic Conference
Norfolk St
JMU
William and Mary
Elon
NC Central
UNCW
South Carolina St
Charleston

Hampton would join this in a heartbeat as would some other Big South Schools.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2020 07:06 PM by solohawks.)
06-29-2020 07:00 PM
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RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
Good Lord that is a DavidSt/ NoDak level mess of two conferences
06-30-2020 06:30 AM
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RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
If presented with that proposal, I am confident that the CAA leadership could think forward far enough to envision the reaction of the CAA schools and react by laughing it out of the room.

There's one of the eight MEAC schools they wouldn't mind being associated with. Even if they wanted to be associated with Howard much more strongly than they probably do, taking the other seven to get Howard would be silly when all they would have to do is invite Delaware State, the MEAC would be done for, and Howard would fall in their laps.
06-30-2020 07:43 AM
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