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ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #61
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
ASUN
1. Howard
2. Bellarmine
3. Liberty
4. Lipscomb
5. North Georgia
6. Kennesaw St.
7. North Alabama
8. Alabama-Huntsville
9. NC Central
10. Francis Marion
11. North Florida
12. Jacksonville
13. West Florida
14. Bethune-Cookman
15. Stetson
16. Florida Tech
17. FGCU
18. Nova Southeastern
06-18-2020 07:17 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #62
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(1) Any expansion beyond a certain size is a drop in value, because ultimately what builds the value of a school playing in a conference is the repeated games against schools over time, and past a certain point you really reduce the number of games you play against most schools over the course of a student's college career.

(2) And the financial value in general for a lower tier Div 1 conference is the extra work that the conference has to do. You get too big, it can't all be financed out of the single NCAA Tourney unit per year, and you have to start charging schools an participation fee.

(3) And so there's no point in a massive expansion unless the new schools somehow substantially increase the value of the conference for the incumbent schools ... enough to offset the losses (1) and (2) above and then to increase value on a per school basis after deducting those expansion costs.

It's like Jurassic Park: "Your [conference realignment enthusiasts] were so preoccupied with whether or not it could be done, they didn't stop to think whether it should ..."
06-19-2020 05:29 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #63
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
With the MEAC on the verge of collapse they may be able to pick up some HBCUs pretty easily. B-C is the only one that really fits the footprint but they could make SC St, NC Central, and Norfolk St work I suppose.
06-19-2020 06:00 AM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 06:00 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  With the MEAC on the verge of collapse they may be able to pick up some HBCUs pretty easily. B-C is the only one that really fits the footprint but they could make SC St, NC Central, and Norfolk St work I suppose.

Dont think the make it work mentality is the right move.

If the ASUN can make anything happen with football, (a different association with a different conference) UNA and KSU are likely not to leave.

So I agree with building the established footprint, keep it between the established boundaries now that NJIT is gone, and maybe add the right school from the Carolinas later. It would be hard to leave the ASUN if the Big South is packed.
06-19-2020 08:00 AM
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North Ala Supporter Offline
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Post: #65
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 08:00 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 06:00 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  With the MEAC on the verge of collapse they may be able to pick up some HBCUs pretty easily. B-C is the only one that really fits the footprint but they could make SC St, NC Central, and Norfolk St work I suppose.

Dont think the make it work mentality is the right move.

If the ASUN can make anything happen with football, (a different association with a different conference) UNA and KSU are likely not to leave.

So I agree with building the established footprint, keep it between the established boundaries now that NJIT is gone, and maybe add the right school from the Carolinas later. It would be hard to leave the ASUN if the Big South is packed.

Are you suggesting that the ASUN drop it’s alliance with the Big South and have an alliance with either the OVC, SoCon, or MEAC.
06-19-2020 09:13 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #66
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-13-2020 08:29 AM)army56mike Wrote:  1. The ASUN doesn’t NEED to expand.
2. The ASUN has stated there were no D2 targets.
3. Things change.

It is true that the conference has enough schools to meet the requirements to continue as an NCAA D1 conference, but is that really enough. Conferences other than the Big Ten and SEC are always at risk of losing members at some point in the future. Having ten or more members rather than eight ensures the ability to absorb such a loss, responding as appropriate on a carefully considered basis rather than in an emergency mode. I think this was likely one of the reasons America East moved forward with the addition of NJIT.
06-19-2020 10:43 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #67
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 06:00 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  With the MEAC on the verge of collapse they may be able to pick up some HBCUs pretty easily. B-C is the only one that really fits the footprint but they could make SC St, NC Central, and Norfolk St work I suppose.

SC State fits the footprint fine. The A-Sun's heart is Georgia and Florida, but they had USC-Upstate until recently. Bethune-Cookman and SC State would both work for the A-Sun and help provide some stability through numbers to the conference.

As we saw with Big East football, and actually with the WAC and A-Sun previously, being in a position where you are at the bare minimum number of schools is not ideal. It's better to have a slightly larger core where you can absorb losses and have extra schools competing at the conference level.

To that point, imagine if the 2005-2012 Big East had expanded to 12 like many on this board wanted. When Rutgers, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, and eventually Louisville left, they'd have still had 7 teams that were seen as BCS AQ/Power level teams instead of 3. It'd have been much easier for those 7 to add back 1 or 2 members and argue for maintaining the AQ/Power status. Instead, it was 3 schools forced to add a whole bunch of non-AQ schools, so you had a conference that was majority non-AQ instead of a conference that would have overwhelmingly still been AQ.
06-19-2020 11:00 AM
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3BNole Offline
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Post: #68
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
These are the reasons that I really think that the ASUN needs to look seriously at Bethune. Yes, the ASUN is stable right now but when your a conference that in the long term is more likely to be picked from than to be picking from other conferences, you should always try to be proactive and not reactive. Literally what happens if a year from now one or two ASUN teams leave for whatever reason and Bethune is no longer available? Then you’re left wishing you had made the move. It’s not a reason to expand just for expansion’s sake, but when you’re presented a golden opportunity to pluck a team that makes geographical sense and is competitive in a sport you care about (baseball), then go ahead and make the move.
06-19-2020 11:33 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #69
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.
06-19-2020 11:47 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #70
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 11:47 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.

If Lipscomb gets an opportunity to join the OVC or SoCon, they will go regardless of whether the A-Sun has promoted a weak Tennessee private school to join them. The same thing is true for Bellarmine and the Horizon or another league.

The A-Sun needs to be focused on their GA-FL geographic core and public universities that will fit the A-Sun's overall membership profile like North Georgia, West Georgia, Augusta, & West Florida. If the opportunity arises to add an established D-1 member in a nearby state, like SC State, they should take that opportunity. But adding these small, unknown, financially questionable private schools outside of the core area is not a good strategy unless it is truly the only option available.
06-19-2020 12:22 PM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 09:13 AM)North Ala Supporter Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 08:00 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 06:00 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  With the MEAC on the verge of collapse they may be able to pick up some HBCUs pretty easily. B-C is the only one that really fits the footprint but they could make SC St, NC Central, and Norfolk St work I suppose.

Dont think the make it work mentality is the right move.

If the ASUN can make anything happen with football, (a different association with a different conference) UNA and KSU are likely not to leave.

So I agree with building the established footprint, keep it between the established boundaries now that NJIT is gone, and maybe add the right school from the Carolinas later. It would be hard to leave the ASUN if the Big South is packed.

Are you suggesting that the ASUN drop it’s alliance with the Big South and have an alliance with either the OVC, SoCon, or MEAC.

OVC or SoCon.... not the MEAC. That would be the Same as the Big South in terms of travel and schools that both UNA and KSU (fans) are interested in.
06-19-2020 12:31 PM
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Post: #72
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
South Carolina St
-- ASUN --|-- MEAC --
UNF 3:45 | NCC - 3:45
JAX 3:45 | BCU - 5:00
KEN 4:00 | NSU - 5:45
STE 5:00 | HOW - 7:30
LIB 5:00 | MES - 8:00
LIP 7:15 | MSU - 8:00
UNA 7:30 | CSU - 8:00
BEL 8:15 | DSU - 8:45
FGC 8:30
06-19-2020 12:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #73
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 12:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 11:47 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.

If Lipscomb gets an opportunity to join the OVC or SoCon, they will go regardless of whether the A-Sun has promoted a weak Tennessee private school to join them. The same thing is true for Bellarmine and the Horizon or another league.

The A-Sun needs to be focused on their GA-FL geographic core and public universities that will fit the A-Sun's overall membership profile like North Georgia, West Georgia, Augusta, & West Florida. If the opportunity arises to add an established D-1 member in a nearby state, like SC State, they should take that opportunity. But adding these small, unknown, financially questionable private schools outside of the core area is not a good strategy unless it is truly the only option available.


Lincoln Memorial
endowment:$14.55 million
4867 students
men's basketball is just as strong as Bellarmine, came close winning the D2 championship in 2016 losing to Augustana.

Union Tennessee
endowment:$35 million in 2013 could be over $50 million now.
3377 students
Women's basketball won the NAIA championship in 2010

Union and Lane are both in Jackson. Lane is too small.

Christian Brothers in Memphis.
endowment:$35 million
students:1779
Lady's soccer won the D2 championship in 2002
Strong men's basketball, beat crosstown rival Memphis in 2 overtime exhibition game in 2014.
Been going to the D2 basketball tournaments as well.
06-19-2020 01:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #74
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 12:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  South Carolina St
-- ASUN --|-- MEAC --
UNF 3:45 | NCC - 3:45
JAX 3:45 | BCU - 5:00
KEN 4:00 | NSU - 5:45
STE 5:00 | HOW - 7:30
LIB 5:00 | MES - 8:00
LIP 7:15 | MSU - 8:00
UNA 7:30 | CSU - 8:00
BEL 8:15 | DSU - 8:45
FGC 8:30

SCST to the Big South would be closer than the ASun.
06-19-2020 01:38 PM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 01:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 12:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 11:47 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.

If Lipscomb gets an opportunity to join the OVC or SoCon, they will go regardless of whether the A-Sun has promoted a weak Tennessee private school to join them. The same thing is true for Bellarmine and the Horizon or another league.

The A-Sun needs to be focused on their GA-FL geographic core and public universities that will fit the A-Sun's overall membership profile like North Georgia, West Georgia, Augusta, & West Florida. If the opportunity arises to add an established D-1 member in a nearby state, like SC State, they should take that opportunity. But adding these small, unknown, financially questionable private schools outside of the core area is not a good strategy unless it is truly the only option available.


Lincoln Memorial
endowment:$14.55 million
4867 students
men's basketball is just as strong as Bellarmine, came close winning the D2 championship in 2016 losing to Augustana.

Union Tennessee
endowment:$35 million in 2013 could be over $50 million now.
3377 students
Women's basketball won the NAIA championship in 2010

Union and Lane are both in Jackson. Lane is too small.

Christian Brothers in Memphis.
endowment:$35 million
students:1779
Lady's soccer won the D2 championship in 2002
Strong men's basketball, beat crosstown rival Memphis in 2 overtime exhibition game in 2014.
Been going to the D2 basketball tournaments as well.
I dont recall but a couple of schools in the region from D2 even considering a move to D1. And only one off the top of my head and that's West Georgia. And when UNA went, West Georgia put it on hold.
06-19-2020 03:06 PM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #76
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 01:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 12:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 11:47 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.

If Lipscomb gets an opportunity to join the OVC or SoCon, they will go regardless of whether the A-Sun has promoted a weak Tennessee private school to join them. The same thing is true for Bellarmine and the Horizon or another league.

The A-Sun needs to be focused on their GA-FL geographic core and public universities that will fit the A-Sun's overall membership profile like North Georgia, West Georgia, Augusta, & West Florida. If the opportunity arises to add an established D-1 member in a nearby state, like SC State, they should take that opportunity. But adding these small, unknown, financially questionable private schools outside of the core area is not a good strategy unless it is truly the only option available.


Lincoln Memorial
endowment:$14.55 million
4867 students
men's basketball is just as strong as Bellarmine, came close winning the D2 championship in 2016 losing to Augustana.

Union Tennessee
endowment:$35 million in 2013 could be over $50 million now.
3377 students
Women's basketball won the NAIA championship in 2010

Union and Lane are both in Jackson. Lane is too small.

Christian Brothers in Memphis.
endowment:$35 million
students:1779
Lady's soccer won the D2 championship in 2002
Strong men's basketball, beat crosstown rival Memphis in 2 overtime exhibition game in 2014.
Been going to the D2 basketball tournaments as well.

Like I said. Small, unknown, financially iffy private schools with no actual fan base and almost certainly facing a declining enrollment.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 03:08 PM by CitrusUCF.)
06-19-2020 03:07 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #77
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
If total MEAC implosion were to occur Norfolk St, NC Central, and SC St would find Big South membership to be favorable but they are a bit crowded at 12 members. The ASUN could be a workable alternative.

Big South football is getting really factionalized though:

3 small private schools in N.C./SC (full members)
2 HBCUs in VA/NC (full members)
2 private schools In the NE (affiliates)
2 big publics in GA/AL

and this is before any more additions.
06-19-2020 03:23 PM
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Post: #78
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
(06-19-2020 01:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 12:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-19-2020 11:47 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets not forget that we need to bridge northward into Tennessee. We have D2 schools like Union who was flirting to add football, Lee, Christian Brothers (makes a good travel partner for Olympic sports for UNA) and Lincoln Memorial. Bellarmine could be a flight risk to go to the Horizon. Adding a D2 Tennessee school could help keep Lipscomb in place.

If Lipscomb gets an opportunity to join the OVC or SoCon, they will go regardless of whether the A-Sun has promoted a weak Tennessee private school to join them. The same thing is true for Bellarmine and the Horizon or another league.

The A-Sun needs to be focused on their GA-FL geographic core and public universities that will fit the A-Sun's overall membership profile like North Georgia, West Georgia, Augusta, & West Florida. If the opportunity arises to add an established D-1 member in a nearby state, like SC State, they should take that opportunity. But adding these small, unknown, financially questionable private schools outside of the core area is not a good strategy unless it is truly the only option available.


Lincoln Memorial
endowment:$14.55 million
4867 students
men's basketball is just as strong as Bellarmine, came close winning the D2 championship in 2016 losing to Augustana.

Union Tennessee
endowment:$35 million in 2013 could be over $50 million now.
3377 students
Women's basketball won the NAIA championship in 2010

Union and Lane are both in Jackson. Lane is too small.

Christian Brothers in Memphis.
endowment:$35 million
students:1779
Lady's soccer won the D2 championship in 2002
Strong men's basketball, beat crosstown rival Memphis in 2 overtime exhibition game in 2014.
Been going to the D2 basketball tournaments as well.

Please, post a legitimate link to an official source that shows any interest in D1 by these schools within the last three years.
06-19-2020 04:06 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #79
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
[Image: Mz0J0WX]Trying to post a picture map of the proposed conference but can’t figure it out.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 04:56 PM by army56mike.)
06-19-2020 04:52 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #80
RE: ASUN Expansion Targets to Replace NJIT
SCHOOL - ENROLLMENT - ENDOWMENT - #SPORTS - MILEAGE
I based distances from Kennesaw St. which is the central location of the conference.
Really there’s a big glob of Florida schools and a big glob of AL, GA, TN, KY schools

1. Kennesaw St. . . . 35,400 . . . $566M . . . 16 . . . ———— . . . Public
2. Nova S’eastern . . 20,400 . . . $170M . . . 17 . . . 667 mi. . . . Private
3. North Georgia . . . 19,700 . . . $55M . . . . 13 . . . 72 mi. . . . . Public
4. North Florida . . . . 17,000 . . . $112M . . . 17 . . . 383 mi. . . . Public
5. Liberty . . . . . . . . 16,000 . . . $1.6B . . . . 18 . . . 452 mi. . . . Private
6. FGCU . . . . . . . . . 15,000 . . . $84M . . . . 15 . . . 613 mi. . . . Public
7. West Florida . . . . 12,800 . . . $79M . . . . . 15 . . 337 mi. . . . Public
8. UA-Huntsville . . . . 9,700 . . . $79M . . . . . 16 . . 160 mi. . . . Public
9. Howard . . . . . . . . 9,400 . . . $693M . . . . .19 . . 652 mi. . . . Private
10. NCCU . . . . . . . . 8,200 . . . .$54M . . . . . .13 . . 401 mi. . . . Public
11. North Alabama . .8,000 . . . .$52M . . . . . .14 . . 229 mi. . . . Public
12. Florida Tech . . . .6,400 . . . .$83M . . . . . .18 . . 532 mi. . . . Private
13. Lipscomb . . . . . .4,600 . . . .$85M . . . . . .15 . . 224 mi. . . . Private
14. Stetson . . . . . . .4,300 . . . . $255M . . . . .18 . . 444 mi. . . . Private
15. Francis Marion . . 4,200 . . . .$25M . . . . . .14 . . 327 mi. . . . Public
16. Jacksonville . . . . 4,100 . . . .$45M . . . . . .17 . . 375 mi. . . . Private
17. Bellarmine . . . . . 4,000 . . . .$52M . . . . . .20 . . 396 mi. . . . Private
18. Bethune-Cookman 4,000 . . . $48M . . . . . .15 . . 462 mi. . . . Private
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2020 10:42 PM by army56mike.)
06-19-2020 07:29 PM
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