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Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
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WMSportsBlog Offline
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Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
With several FBS-level institutions cutting sports to stem coronavirus losses, it's not outside the realm of reason that W&M explores similar possibilities.

If this is the case, what would that look like? Is there precedent for this? What sport(s) are most likely to be considered?

We jump into all the above in our new article below. Roll Tribe Roll.


Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2020/05/28/will...rts-teams/
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2020 06:24 PM by WMSportsBlog.)
05-28-2020 06:14 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
Difficult to predict. What you may not know is that several of the so-called "minor" sports have rather large endowments from alums....men's gymnastics, track & field, baseball for three that we know...that would make it nigh on impossible to cut those sports...and there may be others like men's soccer.

23 sports right now appears unsustainable and Title 9 enters into the equation.
05-29-2020 05:56 AM
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Tribe32 Online
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
Just a couple of thoughts. Baseball complex is there and the sport is well supported by one major donor. Not in his lifetime,.

Cut track and you don't need a new track and field complex.

Cut swimming and you don't need a natatorium.

Cutting golf and tennis doesn't buy you much in terms of cost per athlete. Tennis incurs quite a bit of travel, but is well funded.

Women's soccer is well funded.

Volleyball should be on the table for discussion, but then you need to cut men's gymnastics.

Field Hockey and Lacrosse require cutting another men's team or more.

Would she ever consider cutting football?
05-29-2020 06:17 AM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
Football will never be cut. The College has enough on its hands right now than handling the major outcry that would ensue if football were cut,

Not to mention the millions that alums have given to support the program.
05-29-2020 04:20 PM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
I have held off commenting long enough.

The thought of cutting any sport is stupid.

If the CAA costs too much, drop down to the ODAC.

Conference affiliation is the issue here, and the costs associated with same, not the costs of a sport. Administrative overhead is the issue here, not the costs of a sport.

Furthermore, each sport and their donor / alumni base need to be given a five year “heads up” .... become self sufficient or else.

The Mickey Matthews column in today’s RTD is spot on.
05-30-2020 08:00 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(05-30-2020 08:00 AM)nj alum Wrote:  I have held off commenting long enough.

The thought of cutting any sport is stupid.

If the CAA costs too much, drop down to the ODAC.

Conference affiliation is the issue here, and the costs associated with same, not the costs of a sport. Administrative overhead is the issue here, not the costs of a sport.

Furthermore, each sport and their donor / alumni base need to be given a five year “heads up” .... become self sufficient or else.

The Mickey Matthews column in today’s RTD is spot on.

I saw UAH initially dropped their hockey team, but brought it back (after raising $750,000) basically with that caveat, that donors or the team would have to figure out some plan to make the team more financially stable long term, so they wouldn't have to do massive fundraising every year.

That said, we sponsor 20 some sports. I love athletics, but let's say the golf team would require a multi million dollar endowment to be self sustaining. Part of me does kinda think the school as a whole would benefit more from putting those millions to some academic program, or refurbishing some of the buildings on campus vs sponsoring a sport for 8 athletes.

Heck, I played club ultimate frisbee. If the school contacted me saying they wanted to raise $5 million to make it a varsity sport or something, I'd tell them that money would be better spent elsewhere.
05-30-2020 08:17 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
What drives the cost of a sport? Scholarships.

Compare the scholarship money from the 70’s to the scholarship money today. You start there. Plenty of us competed for the school without scholarship money in the 70’s.

What drives the cost of a sport? Schedule.

I just found the home baseball schedule from 1979. 14 home games.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the funding of athletic scholarships inures to the benefit of the academic side as it helps sustain the outrageous tuition costs on a school-wide basis.

The “fringe” sports, IMO, are the heart and soul of W&M athletics, and to a good extent, the school as a whole.

You cut a sport, you cut the College off from the type of people that that sport attracts.

This is a demographics issue, as well as a financial one.
05-30-2020 08:51 AM
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Tribe32 Online
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
NJ,
I would add that it is an integral part of the history of the college for about the last 100 years give or take. Remember also that we were very small in terms of enrollment until the 1970s to now. To your point, I played a sport where the team had a couple of scholarships to give out to the entire team. Kids got recruited from out of state to play and they paid their way. The little bit of money that was split up was insignificant. The cost of tuition was way less too, so there's that.

One last thing. If sports are cut, you will alienate a lot of Tribe fans who work in or are retired in the area from Richmond to Virginia beach including a lot in Williamsburg. That won't go well. I will say that the athletic department knows that we have way more sports than most schools in the CAA.
05-30-2020 10:43 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(05-30-2020 10:43 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  NJ,
I would add that it is an integral part of the history of the college for about the last 100 years give or take. Remember also that we were very small in terms of enrollment until the 1970s to now. To your point, I played a sport where the team had a couple of scholarships to give out to the entire team. Kids got recruited from out of state to play and they paid their way. The little bit of money that was split up was insignificant. The cost of tuition was way less too, so there's that.

One last thing. If sports are cut, you will alienate a lot of Tribe fans who work in or are retired in the area from Richmond to Virginia beach including a lot in Williamsburg. That won't go well. I will say that the athletic department knows that we have way more sports than most schools in the CAA.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...g-pandemic

Worth reading through to end of linked article for analysis done by the U. of Idaho president on impact of non-revenue sports on overall college budget vs impact on just the athletic department budget.
05-31-2020 06:51 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
Is there any way to have all scholarships as in-state?
06-04-2020 09:46 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-04-2020 09:46 AM)Herm61 Wrote:  Is there any way to have all scholarships as in-state?

I wouldn't think that was practical.

I know when I attended the College there were strict quotas for in-state/out-of-state students to balance revenue generation vs. serving the citizens of the Commonwealth. I have no idea if this is the case today, but perhaps that is an approach to the scholarship money, with some additional aid for out-of-state athletes. Otherwise I would think we would take a huge talent hit.

I believe that in the 1970's roughly 70% of the students were Virginians and 30% from out-of-state. Admission criteria for in-state men were different from out-of-state women significantly because of that quota.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2020 10:04 AM by LeadBolt.)
06-04-2020 10:02 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(05-30-2020 08:51 AM)nj alum Wrote:  What drives the cost of a sport? Scholarships.

Compare the scholarship money from the 70’s to the scholarship money today. You start there. Plenty of us competed for the school without scholarship money in the 70’s.

What drives the cost of a sport? Schedule.

I just found the home baseball schedule from 1979. 14 home games.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the funding of athletic scholarships inures to the benefit of the academic side as it helps sustain the outrageous tuition costs on a school-wide basis.

The “fringe” sports, IMO, are the heart and soul of W&M athletics, and to a good extent, the school as a whole.

You cut a sport, you cut the College off from the type of people that that sport attracts.

This is a demographics issue, as well as a financial one.

The MAC, of all places, stealing a march. Seeking to attract a new demographic.

https://www.morningjournalnews.com/uncat...onference/
06-12-2020 07:15 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-12-2020 07:15 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 08:51 AM)nj alum Wrote:  What drives the cost of a sport? Scholarships.

Compare the scholarship money from the 70’s to the scholarship money today. You start there. Plenty of us competed for the school without scholarship money in the 70’s.

What drives the cost of a sport? Schedule.

I just found the home baseball schedule from 1979. 14 home games.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the funding of athletic scholarships inures to the benefit of the academic side as it helps sustain the outrageous tuition costs on a school-wide basis.

The “fringe” sports, IMO, are the heart and soul of W&M athletics, and to a good extent, the school as a whole.

You cut a sport, you cut the College off from the type of people that that sport attracts.

This is a demographics issue, as well as a financial one.

The MAC, of all places, stealing a march. Seeking to attract a new demographic.

https://www.morningjournalnews.com/uncat...onference/

Will be as popular as rooting for a debate team. I get the idea of formally structuring competitions and sanctioning a club of sorts, but this is not news. Further, with zero travel costs or scholarships, "teams" can play anyone they want including internationally. Does a conference really need to exist?
06-12-2020 08:19 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-12-2020 08:19 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  
(06-12-2020 07:15 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 08:51 AM)nj alum Wrote:  What drives the cost of a sport? Scholarships.

Compare the scholarship money from the 70’s to the scholarship money today. You start there. Plenty of us competed for the school without scholarship money in the 70’s.

What drives the cost of a sport? Schedule.

I just found the home baseball schedule from 1979. 14 home games.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the funding of athletic scholarships inures to the benefit of the academic side as it helps sustain the outrageous tuition costs on a school-wide basis.

The “fringe” sports, IMO, are the heart and soul of W&M athletics, and to a good extent, the school as a whole.

You cut a sport, you cut the College off from the type of people that that sport attracts.

This is a demographics issue, as well as a financial one.

The MAC, of all places, stealing a march. Seeking to attract a new demographic.

https://www.morningjournalnews.com/uncat...onference/

Will be as popular as rooting for a debate team. I get the idea of formally structuring competitions and sanctioning a club of sorts, but this is not news. Further, with zero travel costs or scholarships, "teams" can play anyone they want including internationally. Does a conference really need to exist?

There are those who would beg to differ on popularity of esports as a spectator event.

https://esportsobserver.com/usnavy-esports-advertising/

"The U.S. Navy has decided to issue a course correction and will see its advertising budget be redirected towards esports and YouTube, while going away from traditional television. A report from USNI News states that the maritime branch of the armed forces will spend 97% of its advertising budget on online advertising. The other 3% will be spent on billboards and radio advertisements.

For reasons that shouldn’t surprise anyone, the Navy is transitioning to an online advertising strategy to reach those people between the ages of 17 and 28. According to USNI News, research was conducted by the Navy that shows that its target audience is mostly in the digital arena."

Attracting millennial fans to football and basketball games is a growing challenge for college athletic departments.
06-14-2020 09:22 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-14-2020 09:22 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2020 08:19 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  
(06-12-2020 07:15 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 08:51 AM)nj alum Wrote:  What drives the cost of a sport? Scholarships.

Compare the scholarship money from the 70’s to the scholarship money today. You start there. Plenty of us competed for the school without scholarship money in the 70’s.

What drives the cost of a sport? Schedule.

I just found the home baseball schedule from 1979. 14 home games.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the funding of athletic scholarships inures to the benefit of the academic side as it helps sustain the outrageous tuition costs on a school-wide basis.

The “fringe” sports, IMO, are the heart and soul of W&M athletics, and to a good extent, the school as a whole.

You cut a sport, you cut the College off from the type of people that that sport attracts.

This is a demographics issue, as well as a financial one.

The MAC, of all places, stealing a march. Seeking to attract a new demographic.

https://www.morningjournalnews.com/uncat...onference/

Will be as popular as rooting for a debate team. I get the idea of formally structuring competitions and sanctioning a club of sorts, but this is not news. Further, with zero travel costs or scholarships, "teams" can play anyone they want including internationally. Does a conference really need to exist?

There are those who would beg to differ on popularity of esports as a spectator event.

https://esportsobserver.com/usnavy-esports-advertising/

"The U.S. Navy has decided to issue a course correction and will see its advertising budget be redirected towards esports and YouTube, while going away from traditional television. A report from USNI News states that the maritime branch of the armed forces will spend 97% of its advertising budget on online advertising. The other 3% will be spent on billboards and radio advertisements.

For reasons that shouldn’t surprise anyone, the Navy is transitioning to an online advertising strategy to reach those people between the ages of 17 and 28. According to USNI News, research was conducted by the Navy that shows that its target audience is mostly in the digital arena."

Attracting millennial fans to football and basketball games is a growing challenge for college athletic departments.

Correlation, sure. Esports and youtube are jamming full of 15-25 year olds. Perfect demographic pair-up, much like MTV was when they were actually showing music. These ads are also directed at those who are PLAYING the games too...not primarily spectators, which is a much smaller fraction. Pretty sure the NFL is still wayyyyy more popular than ESPNs E-sports league from viewership.
06-14-2020 11:39 AM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-14-2020 11:39 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  
(06-14-2020 09:22 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  There are those who would beg to differ on popularity of esports as a spectator event.

https://esportsobserver.com/usnavy-esports-advertising/

"The U.S. Navy has decided to issue a course correction and will see its advertising budget be redirected towards esports and YouTube, while going away from traditional television. A report from USNI News states that the maritime branch of the armed forces will spend 97% of its advertising budget on online advertising. The other 3% will be spent on billboards and radio advertisements.

For reasons that shouldn’t surprise anyone, the Navy is transitioning to an online advertising strategy to reach those people between the ages of 17 and 28. According to USNI News, research was conducted by the Navy that shows that its target audience is mostly in the digital arena."

Attracting millennial fans to football and basketball games is a growing challenge for college athletic departments.

Correlation, sure. Esports and youtube are jamming full of 15-25 year olds. Perfect demographic pair-up, much like MTV was when they were actually showing music. These ads are also directed at those who are PLAYING the games too...not primarily spectators, which is a much smaller fraction. Pretty sure the NFL is still wayyyyy more popular than ESPNs E-sports league from viewership.

But for which demographic? I don't have data on this, but I would guess that there will be a substantial number of freshmen every year that have watched more esports than real sports. Compare that with cost of the teams, and it seems like an obvious thing to invest in esports.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2020 12:10 PM by TribeInTheBurg.)
06-14-2020 12:09 PM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
*Cue Shameless Plug*

We wrote an article not long ago, titled "What are esports and should W&M have a Team?"

Seems relevant to repost now.

Link: https://wmsportsblog.com/2019/12/19/what...ve-a-team/
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2020 12:34 PM by WMSportsBlog.)
06-14-2020 12:33 PM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
I didnt really watch real sports as a kid either. Peer pressure over time allowed me to learn enough to get sucked in. People may watch esports, but again, it is more their participation in the competition that drives this market. Occasionally watching a pro guy play a level of a game or show off in a competition is not that significant. Im young and I play video games, but I think the "explosion in popularity" is media hype. Should we also field a competitive band for battle of the bands or American Idol? Culinary team to compete on Iron Chef? Just because there are ratings, does not mean colleges need formal representation.
06-14-2020 01:18 PM
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RE: Will W&M Have to Cut Sports Teams?
(06-14-2020 01:18 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  I didnt really watch real sports as a kid either. Peer pressure over time allowed me to learn enough to get sucked in. People may watch esports, but again, it is more their participation in the competition that drives this market. Occasionally watching a pro guy play a level of a game or show off in a competition is not that significant. Im young and I play video games, but I think the "explosion in popularity" is media hype. Should we also field a competitive band for battle of the bands or American Idol? Culinary team to compete on Iron Chef? Just because there are ratings, does not mean colleges need formal representation.

Personally, I don't get esports either, but I'm kind of old, although maybe not relative to this board. :) I did watch a ton of sports as a kid, and I play a lot of video games now, although nothing that's represented in esports. My son, still in elementary school, loves watching video games, and esports is on ESPN now. That's where my thinking comes from. Comparing esports to reality shows is not apples to apples, IMO.
06-14-2020 01:41 PM
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