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OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 09:36 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  Traveling to and from Beaumont is not too bad. 04-cheers It's easier to get to than a lot of places. You would have your choice of three airports fiying commercial (four, if for some reason, you wanted to use Lake Charles Regional airport). For commercial scheduled air, the university is a 10 minute drive from the regional airport with daily flights to and from DFW. For more flexibility, the drive to and from the two big Houston airports is about 1 hour 20 minutes on very good highways. Not bad! For comparison, it took me from 45 minutes to 1 hour to get to the Houston airports when I lived in west Houston. For charters, the regional airport can handle planes the size of the old 727's and planes like Southwest Airlines flies (737's).

For Tarleton State, the drive to and from Beaumont is an hour less than it is to Edinburg, TX (UTRGV) and the same as to Canyon, TX (West Texas A&M).

If someone was looking for something to do for the weekend, there are several things once you are there. There is good food. The area is close enough to Louisiana, that there are a lot of really good Cajan Cuisine restaurants. It is close enough to the Gulf, there are several very good seafood restaurants. If you like casinos, they are across the state line about 25-30 miles away. If you like deep sea fishing, that is about 30 minutes to the south. If you like big lake fishing, Lake Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend Reservoir are about 1 hour away. If you like canoeing, there are outfitters that can take you on trips on the wild part of the Neches River and the local bayous. If you like cultural stuff and history, especially about the oil industriy, there are several museums downtown including a very good energy museum. Spindletop-Glady City Boomtown Museum is on Lamar's campus. If you like touring old homes, there are several in town. My favorite is the McFaddin-Ward House. If you like nature, the Big Thicket National Preserve is just north of Beaumont. There are miles of trails through pristine heavy forested areas with a wide range of plant growth. There is a really nice botanical garden, Shangri-La Gardens, and more really nice touring homes in Orange, about 25 miles away. If you like the big city, Houston is a little over an hour away. Minute Maid Park (Houston Astros) is just over an hour away. NRG Stadium (Houston Texans) is 1 hour 30 minutes away. BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston Dynamos) is a little over an hour away. You're out of luck if you like mountains, but there are plenty of those in the WAC. Other than that, there's nothing to do once you get there. :-)

I know the Golden Triangle well and I know Orange very well. I have actually been to Shangri-La Gardens. It is really nice. My sister graduated from Lamar and my parents retired in the Golden Triangle. I have traveled down there hundreds of times. There is some great high school football down there and some good fishing. Other than that, it is really boring in the Golden Triangle. It is a nice place to raise a family, but most kids in high school want to graduate and get out the heck out of there.

If you fly into either Houston airport, you still have to travel another 90 miles by vehicle or take a puddle jumper to Jack Brooks Regional Airport. It is hot and humid in the Golden Triangle and the air quality sucks. The good high school football talent in the Golden Triangle ends up at an SEC or Big 12 school. Lamar really blew it when they dropped football and they let their basketball program slide after the Tubbs/Foster eras. I hope they can get it together in the future, but from a travel perspective they are a better fit for the SLC.
06-01-2020 12:25 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #42
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
Football is not a requirement for new schools that may be added. Last I checked, the WAC is a basketball conference. If the WAC were to lose even one more institution, they would be right at the minimum for the BB auto bid. As it is, 3 schools do not even qualify for the NCAA tourney. The WAC is in survival mode and would take any institution today in order to keep the conference afloat.

The "original" WAC had Colorado schools in CSU and AFA. And the new WAC briefly had Denver until they could not stomach the thought of playing in a conference with a for profit GCU. Where the WAC is located is inconsequential. With all the constant churn within in the conference, it seems silly to try to relocate to another state where, in a year or two, you may not have a school from there anymore.
06-01-2020 01:52 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.
06-01-2020 01:56 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 01:52 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Football is not a requirement for new schools that may be added. Last I checked, the WAC is a basketball conference. If the WAC were to lose even one more institution, they would be right at the minimum for the BB auto bid. As it is, 3 schools do not even qualify for the NCAA tourney. The WAC is in survival mode and would take any institution today in order to keep the conference afloat.

The "original" WAC had Colorado schools in CSU and AFA. And the new WAC briefly had Denver until they could not stomach the thought of playing in a conference with a for profit GCU. Where the WAC is located is inconsequential. With all the constant churn within in the conference, it seems silly to try to relocate to another state where, in a year or two, you may not have a school from there anymore.

I think Hurd will "try" to accommodate Dixie State and Tarleton State by adding D2 schools which play football; with the hopes that a WAC FCS conference can one day be started. However, if the conference continues to bleed off schools, Hurd will take the school most qualified and willing to join the WAC regardless if they play football or not. So this leaves programs like Cal State Los Angeles and others still in play. Keep in mind, Hurd hasn't made any real effort to restart FBS football to accommodate NMSU. So, I doubt it is at the top of his priorities to do the same for Dixie State and Tarleton State. I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 04:28 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-01-2020 02:12 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #45
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:52 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Football is not a requirement for new schools that may be added. Last I checked, the WAC is a basketball conference. If the WAC were to lose even one more institution, they would be right at the minimum for the BB auto bid. As it is, 3 schools do not even qualify for the NCAA tourney. The WAC is in survival mode and would take any institution today in order to keep the conference afloat.

The "original" WAC had Colorado schools in CSU and AFA. And the new WAC briefly had Denver until they could not stomach the thought of playing in a conference with a for profit GCU. Where the WAC is located is inconsequential. With all the constant churn within in the conference, it seems silly to try to relocate to another state where, in a year or two, you may not have a school from there anymore.

I think Hurd will "try" to accommodate Dixie State and Tarleton State by adding D2 schools which play football; with the hopes that a WAC FCS conference can one day be started. However, if the conference continues to bleed off schools, Hurd will take the school most qualified and willing to join the WAC regardless if they play football or not. So this leaves programs like Cal State Los Angeles and others still in play. Keep in mind, Hurd hasn't made any real effort to restart FBS football to accommodate NMSU. So, I doubt it is at the top of his priorities to do the same for Dixie State and Tarleton State. I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in state peers performance in Olympic sports, they can develop stronger programs by being in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

I am not naive enough to think that there was not a football discussion with Dixie and Tarleton upon them agreeing to join the WAC. My point is that there is a long road to hoe to get FB back to the WAC. That road becomes impossible if the WAC is hanging on by their fingernails trying to stay alive as a basketball conference.
06-01-2020 03:27 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 12:25 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:36 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  Traveling to and from Beaumont is not too bad. 04-cheers It's easier to get to than a lot of places. You would have your choice of three airports fiying commercial (four, if for some reason, you wanted to use Lake Charles Regional airport). For commercial scheduled air, the university is a 10 minute drive from the regional airport with daily flights to and from DFW. For more flexibility, the drive to and from the two big Houston airports is about 1 hour 20 minutes on very good highways. Not bad! For comparison, it took me from 45 minutes to 1 hour to get to the Houston airports when I lived in west Houston. For charters, the regional airport can handle planes the size of the old 727's and planes like Southwest Airlines flies (737's).

For Tarleton State, the drive to and from Beaumont is an hour less than it is to Edinburg, TX (UTRGV) and the same as to Canyon, TX (West Texas A&M).

If someone was looking for something to do for the weekend, there are several things once you are there. There is good food. The area is close enough to Louisiana, that there are a lot of really good Cajan Cuisine restaurants. It is close enough to the Gulf, there are several very good seafood restaurants. If you like casinos, they are across the state line about 25-30 miles away. If you like deep sea fishing, that is about 30 minutes to the south. If you like big lake fishing, Lake Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend Reservoir are about 1 hour away. If you like canoeing, there are outfitters that can take you on trips on the wild part of the Neches River and the local bayous. If you like cultural stuff and history, especially about the oil industriy, there are several museums downtown including a very good energy museum. Spindletop-Glady City Boomtown Museum is on Lamar's campus. If you like touring old homes, there are several in town. My favorite is the McFaddin-Ward House. If you like nature, the Big Thicket National Preserve is just north of Beaumont. There are miles of trails through pristine heavy forested areas with a wide range of plant growth. There is a really nice botanical garden, Shangri-La Gardens, and more really nice touring homes in Orange, about 25 miles away. If you like the big city, Houston is a little over an hour away. Minute Maid Park (Houston Astros) is just over an hour away. NRG Stadium (Houston Texans) is 1 hour 30 minutes away. BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston Dynamos) is a little over an hour away. You're out of luck if you like mountains, but there are plenty of those in the WAC. Other than that, there's nothing to do once you get there. :-)

I know the Golden Triangle well and I know Orange very well. I have actually been to Shangri-La Gardens. It is really nice. My sister graduated from Lamar and my parents retired in the Golden Triangle. I have traveled down there hundreds of times. There is some great high school football down there and some good fishing. Other than that, it is really boring in the Golden Triangle. It is a nice place to raise a family, but most kids in high school want to graduate and get out the heck out of there.

If you fly into either Houston airport, you still have to travel another 90 miles by vehicle or take a puddle jumper to Jack Brooks Regional Airport. It is hot and humid in the Golden Triangle and the air quality sucks. The good high school football talent in the Golden Triangle ends up at an SEC or Big 12 school. Lamar really blew it when they dropped football and they let their basketball program slide after the Tubbs/Foster eras. I hope they can get it together in the future, but from a travel perspective they are a better fit for the SLC.

The "puddle jumper" out of Jack Brooks Regional Airport is either a Embraer 135 44 seat or Embraer 140 50 seat full jet. It's part of American Airlines (technically Envoy wholly owned by American Airlines) commuter fleet flown in the eastern part of the US. The flight is to DFW. Flight duration is 1 hour 11 minutes. It's not a bad plane. At least I liked it. I flew on similar planes on longer flights on business trips several times out of Bush Intercontinental; Houston's big airport.

As far as the area, I agree about the humidity. It's rough. Spring and Fall aren't bad, though. I also agree that it could be boring if you let it, but that could be said about any place. It wasn't bad being able to water ski there from early March to mid-October. It wasn't bad being able to hop in the boat and run for miles and not see the same thing. It was nice to head north on the river and go through miles of undeveloped river and bayous, or turn south and run down the ship channel on to the Gulf or Intracoastal canal.
There were things I found to do, just like I am finding things in my new home town like playing with my new snow-blower this past winter. 04-cheers I left the Beaumont area over 30 years ago because I was transferred, first to Lafayette, LA and then to Houston. I'm now in a state with mountains and low humidity so that the wife and I could be with our daughter, son-in-law, and grandchildren, but I liked the Gulf Coast in spite of the humidity. I don't miss the hurricanes, though. I'm at 5,000 ft now so we may have some beachfront property eventually with global climate change. 03-wink I may be the exception, but I've always found something to like every place I've lived from Beaumont to southern Georgia to Sacramento to Oklahoma City to Beaumont to Lafayette to Houston and now in Colorado.

I agree about Lamar making bad moves and bad coaching hires after Pat Foster left. It was a lot more fun when Cardinal Stadium and the Montagne Center were packed. The basketball team is recovering from the Pat Knight debacle, but still has a way to go. Both men and women's teams fell off last year with men at 17-15. The previous three years were 19 wins, 19 wins, and 20 wins respectively; nothing like Tubbs/Foster years with consecutive NCAA and NIT tournament appearances, but a whole lot better than Pat Knight's horrible 4-26 season. Football had a disappointing year last season after an FCS playoff run the previous season. Two missed field goals kept the team from going farther. Hopefully the new coach, former San Diego State Offensive Coordinator Blane Morgan, can get the team in the right direction if COVID19 will cooperate. The facilities are there.

Quote:Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

I agree that the Southland Conference is a better place for the Cardinals if the choice would be changing or staying for only a lateral move. The only ways I could see a move from the SLC is if the WAC brought back FBS sponsorship or if the Southland Conference self-destructed.

I like the schools in the WAC. There's some good basketball in the league. It would be great to see the WAC rebuild a good football league as well.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 09:11 PM by LUSportsFan.)
06-01-2020 05:18 PM
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?
06-01-2020 05:56 PM
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.
06-01-2020 06:17 PM
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Post: #49
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

Great point. The WAC as an Olympic sports conference has more upside than the BSC or SLC. For Olympic sports, I would take NMSU, GCU and CBU over any of school in either the BSC or SLC. UVU with 41,728 students enrolled in 2019, has the largest enrollment of any school in Utah and plenty of room to grow their athletic fee. Seattle is academically better than any school in the SLC, has a healthy basketball budget of about $2.7 million and will move back into the Seattle Center Arena with a capacity of 8,901. I agree with PojoaquePosse that the WAC is an Olympic sports league first, but I think it can also be an FCS league, but it will take work.
06-01-2020 06:39 PM
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 06:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

Great point. The WAC as an Olympic sports conference has more upside than the BSC or SLC. For Olympic sports, I would take NMSU, GCU and CBU over any of school in either the BSC or SLC. UVU with 41,728 students enrolled in 2019, has the largest enrollment of any school in Utah and plenty of room to grow their athletic fee. Seattle is academically better than any school in the SLC, has a healthy basketball budget of about $2.7 million and will move back into the Seattle Center Arena with a capacity of 8,901. I agree with PojoaquePosse that the WAC is an Olympic sports league first, but I think it can also be an FCS league, but it will take work.

How come?
06-01-2020 07:12 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 07:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay,

Great point. The WAC as an Olympic sports conference has more upside than the BSC or SLC. For Olympic sports, I would take NMSU, GCU and CBU over any of school in either the BSC or SLC. UVU with 41,728 students enrolled in 2019, has the largest enrollment of any school in Utah and plenty of room to grow their athletic fee. Seattle is academically better than any school in the SLC, has a healthy basketball budget of about $2.7 million and will move back into the Seattle Center Arena with a capacity of 8,901. I agree with PojoaquePosse that the WAC is an Olympic sports league first, but I think it can also be an FCS league, but it will take work.

How come?

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay. They have no men's soccer, because they focus on football. UIW and Houston Baptist have their men soccer teams in the WAC.

We all know how good NMSU is in basketball. They are also pretty good in baseball. NMSU, GCU, CBU and Seattle all have larger basketball budgets than any school in either the SLC or BSC. GCU and CBU have plenty of money, they are in great markets with a lot of talent and their facilities are terrific. These are private schools that don't have to answer to the state on what they spend on athletics. I actually think ACU and UIW could have some interest in the WAC down the road. The private schools do like to stick together.
06-01-2020 09:00 PM
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 09:00 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay,

Great point. The WAC as an Olympic sports conference has more upside than the BSC or SLC. For Olympic sports, I would take NMSU, GCU and CBU over any of school in either the BSC or SLC. UVU with 41,728 students enrolled in 2019, has the largest enrollment of any school in Utah and plenty of room to grow their athletic fee. Seattle is academically better than any school in the SLC, has a healthy basketball budget of about $2.7 million and will move back into the Seattle Center Arena with a capacity of 8,901. I agree with PojoaquePosse that the WAC is an Olympic sports league first, but I think it can also be an FCS league, but it will take work.

How come?

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay. They have no men's soccer, because they focus on football. UIW and Houston Baptist have their men soccer teams in the WAC.

We all know how good NMSU is in basketball. They are also pretty good in baseball. NMSU, GCU, CBU and Seattle all have larger basketball budgets than any school in either the SLC or BSC. GCU and CBU have plenty of money, they are in great markets with a lot of talent and their facilities are terrific. These are private schools that don't have to answer to the state on what they spend on athletics. I actually think ACU and UIW could have some interest in the WAC down the road. The private schools do like to stick together.
Agreed. The SLC offers geographic convenience for its members, an ability to form rivals and a place to park all of your sports but it's not a great league.

The WAC is speadout but gets your program in our near major media markets throughout the west.

At this point both the SLC and the WAC are both one bid leagues. The WAC has 9 schools while SLC has 13. I like the odds of winning 1/9 over 1/13. I like the RPI strength of 1/9 if I'm going against GCU, CBU and NMSU.
I
06-01-2020 09:26 PM
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RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 09:00 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 02:12 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  I think there is an opportunity to start up a FCS conference but I think both Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to work behind the scenes to recruit likeminded new members. Otherwise, Dixie State and Tarleton State will need to live the life as an independent or become an associate member of an existing FCS conference. Dixie State and Tarleton State might be in a better situation logistically to be in the Big Sky and Southland respectively. However, I believe if both schools want to exceed their in-state peers in performance in Olympic sports, they're better off developing stronger sports programs by remaining in the WAC; where the recruiting base is larger, upper tier programs are stronger and national recognition is greater.

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay,

Great point. The WAC as an Olympic sports conference has more upside than the BSC or SLC. For Olympic sports, I would take NMSU, GCU and CBU over any of school in either the BSC or SLC. UVU with 41,728 students enrolled in 2019, has the largest enrollment of any school in Utah and plenty of room to grow their athletic fee. Seattle is academically better than any school in the SLC, has a healthy basketball budget of about $2.7 million and will move back into the Seattle Center Arena with a capacity of 8,901. I agree with PojoaquePosse that the WAC is an Olympic sports league first, but I think it can also be an FCS league, but it will take work.

How come?

Because of athletic budgets, athletic facilities, athletic talent and the ability to easily attract coaching and playing talent. The BSC is a football conference that also plays basketball. They have no baseball or men's soccer. Two of the BSC schools play baseball in the WAC. A good portion of their athletic budgets are spent on football. The SLC is a bad basketball league. Over the past five seasons, the SLC has never ranked in the top 25 of conferences by RPI or Net ranking. The baseball is okay. They have no men's soccer, because they focus on football. UIW and Houston Baptist have their men soccer teams in the WAC.

We all know how good NMSU is in basketball. They are also pretty good in baseball. NMSU, GCU, CBU and Seattle all have larger basketball budgets than any school in either the SLC or BSC. GCU and CBU have plenty of money, they are in great markets with a lot of talent and their facilities are terrific. These are private schools that don't have to answer to the state on what they spend on athletics. I actually think ACU and UIW could have some interest in the WAC down the road. The private schools do like to stick together.

Total NCAA bids by conference:
Big Sky 55
WAC 37
Southland 29

Last NCAA Tourney WIN:
Big Sky: Montana 2006
WAC: NMSU 1993 (Seriously)
Southland: SFA 2016
06-02-2020 07:57 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #54
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-01-2020 06:17 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.

Who is being negative? I'm being realistic. The WAC loses and adds schools just about every year. It is hanging on by a thread as a conference. Those are facts. I'm not being negative. Furthermore, EVERY school in the WAC would jump to another conference in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. I want a FB conference for NMSU just as much as anyone. But I'm being realistic. You have purple glasses on with your move to D1 and don't want to acknowledge the problems.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 08:52 AM by PojoaquePosse.)
06-02-2020 08:20 AM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
I very much prefer Tarleton in the WAC. What a fun and exciting basketball league its shaping up to be. But to say the WAC is head and shoulders above the BSC and SLC is just bad facts.
For Tarleton, it all comes down to Football. If the WAC starts bringing in non-football playing schools, its off to the SLC we go.
06-02-2020 08:28 AM
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Post: #56
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-02-2020 08:20 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:17 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.

Who is being negative? I'm being realistic. The WAC loses and adds schools just about every year. It is hanging on by a thread as a conference. Those are facts. I'm not being negative. Furthermore, EVERY school in the WAC would jump to another conference in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. I want a FB conference for NMSU just as much as anyone. But I'm being realistic. You have purple glasses on with your move to D1 and don't want t acknowledge the problems.

I'm being optimistic. I'm hopeful the WAC can figure out a way to leverage its brand, footprint and name recognition to build a nice warm and secure home for those ready to take the D1 leap, in need of a better situation, or one day, want to move up to FBS. The WAC has all the right ingredients, they just need leadership to bring it all together. If they can't, Tarleton and Dixie can and will go elsewhere, with zero harm done. It is a worthy investment giving the WAC a shot and being optimistic about its prospects.
06-02-2020 08:40 AM
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Trod0 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-02-2020 08:40 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:20 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:17 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.

Who is being negative? I'm being realistic. The WAC loses and adds schools just about every year. It is hanging on by a thread as a conference. Those are facts. I'm not being negative. Furthermore, EVERY school in the WAC would jump to another conference in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. I want a FB conference for NMSU just as much as anyone. But I'm being realistic. You have purple glasses on with your move to D1 and don't want t acknowledge the problems.

I'm being optimistic. I'm hopeful the WAC can figure out a way to leverage its brand, footprint and name recognition to build a nice warm and secure home for those ready to take the D1 leap, in need of a better situation, or one day, want to move up to FBS. The WAC has all the right ingredients, they just need leadership to bring it all together. If they can't, Tarleton and Dixie can and will go elsewhere, with zero harm done. It is a worthy investment giving the WAC a shot and being optimistic about its prospects.

You make it sound like it’s so easy for Dixie and Tarleton to jump to another conference. If you guys were so appealing, you would have got the call from the conferences you think you can just jump to. You guys are stuck in the black hole with us with your only move at this moment is back down to your high school league. Have fun playing fcs independent football and enjoy your D1 Olympic sports.
06-02-2020 09:14 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-02-2020 08:40 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:20 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:17 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 01:56 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Arent the SLC much much closer and basically all drivable? Seems silly to exchange that for a western fcs league because lets be real, WAC FBS is highly unlikely, as hard is that is for some on here to accept.

Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.

Who is being negative? I'm being realistic. The WAC loses and adds schools just about every year. It is hanging on by a thread as a conference. Those are facts. I'm not being negative. Furthermore, EVERY school in the WAC would jump to another conference in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. I want a FB conference for NMSU just as much as anyone. But I'm being realistic. You have purple glasses on with your move to D1 and don't want t acknowledge the problems.

I'm being optimistic. I'm hopeful the WAC can figure out a way to leverage its brand, footprint and name recognition to build a nice warm and secure home for those ready to take the D1 leap, in need of a better situation, or one day, want to move up to FBS. The WAC has all the right ingredients, they just need leadership to bring it all together. If they can't, Tarleton and Dixie can and will go elsewhere, with zero harm done. It is a worthy investment giving the WAC a shot and being optimistic about its prospects.

There could be potential harm though. Financially and supportwise.
06-02-2020 09:19 AM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #59
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(06-02-2020 09:14 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:40 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:20 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:17 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Lol, thanks. The only thing really keeping the WAC FBS theory alive is this "golden ticket" that allows them to bring back FBS. And as I understand it, they can bring in qualified D2 moveups and FCS defectors to build an FCS conference, and then punch that FBS ticket, ultimately bypassing the required waiting period for a FCS to FBS move.
So basically, a newly formed WAC FCS conference could move up to FBS whenever it so desires. That would give NMSU a home and they could even continue funding their other sports with FBS money games. If the WAC doesn't care what happens to NMSU, which I doubt, they could just form an FCS league, leave NMSU hanging as a lifelong independent, and hold on to that golden ticket for all of eternity. I think a conference of full-members is, and should be, the goal. Right now the WAC has 3 football playing schools. The most its had in forever. Why stop now?

And let's say the negative nancy's on here are right: the WAC is hanging by a thread and has no prospects of ever becoming a football conference again. Tarleton and Dixie could just bounce for the SLC and BSC, repectively, after their D1 probationary period is over. No harm, no foul. For them, its worth taking a chance on the WAC to see if they can pull it all together. And they can do it with minimal risk.

Who is being negative? I'm being realistic. The WAC loses and adds schools just about every year. It is hanging on by a thread as a conference. Those are facts. I'm not being negative. Furthermore, EVERY school in the WAC would jump to another conference in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. I want a FB conference for NMSU just as much as anyone. But I'm being realistic. You have purple glasses on with your move to D1 and don't want t acknowledge the problems.

I'm being optimistic. I'm hopeful the WAC can figure out a way to leverage its brand, footprint and name recognition to build a nice warm and secure home for those ready to take the D1 leap, in need of a better situation, or one day, want to move up to FBS. The WAC has all the right ingredients, they just need leadership to bring it all together. If they can't, Tarleton and Dixie can and will go elsewhere, with zero harm done. It is a worthy investment giving the WAC a shot and being optimistic about its prospects.

You make it sound like it’s so easy for Dixie and Tarleton to jump to another conference. If you guys were so appealing, you would have got the call from the conferences you think you can just jump to. You guys are with your only move at this moment is back down to your high school league. Have fun playing fcs independent football and enjoy your D1 Olympic sports.

Lol dude get over yourself. You're just a medium sized fish in a little "black hole" pond. A medium sized fish that hasn't won anything outside of the WAC since 1993. Making a living by getting your butts handed to you in FBS games and beating up on smaller private schools and D2 moveups, thats about it. You're lucky to have us.
After our probationary period is over while competing in the WAC a few years, we are able to join a conference immediately, as full members. No slots were open in other conferences, so Tarleton decided to be proactive and start the clock on their tranition timetable. Once that's over, the BSC and SLC would be stupid not to open a slot for Dixie and Tarleton if things don't pan out in the WAC.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 09:29 AM by Itinerant Texan.)
06-02-2020 09:27 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #60
RE: OT: Summit decides to not add Augustana
(05-31-2020 09:37 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 10:16 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 09:39 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  So WAC Headquarters is in Denver, Englewood to be exact, and there is not a single Colorado team in the WAC.
Oddity/Anomaly, whatever you wanna call it, it's just weird.
Who could possibly change that? NOCO? MSU-Denver? CSU-Pueblo? CO-Mesa? Maybe UC-CO Springs could take a quantum leap? All I know is somethings gotta give. Would certainly help Hurd & Co. as he goes out to other schools and tries to sell the WAC vision.

Colorado Mesa not interested in leap to Div. I
https://www.gjsentinel.com/sports/cmu/co...f6eda.html

Colorado Mesa is just fine as a Div. II school
https://www.gjsentinel.com/opinion/edito...f6eda.html

MSU Denver reaffirms commitment to NCAA Division II athletics
https://www.msudenver.edu/early-bird/201...vote.shtml

Moving forward, any school, in Colorado or elsewhere, that gets an invitation from the WAC should have football. Period. So scratch Metro, Denver and UC CO Springs. Leaves only Mesa, CSU-Pueblo, or NOCO.

This comment is the reason I jumped in the fray in the first place. I don't agree with it.
06-02-2020 09:38 AM
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