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End of the NCAA?
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Browning Hall Away
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Post: #61
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:49 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  The problem is that we look at it as fans. We think success should provide bigger opportunities.
The ones making the decision will not look at who has been most competitive. They will look at money and politics.

Exactly true. I can't see any scenario where P5 conferences and the AAC give up the CCG. They are huge money makers.

They might if the below was actually on the table.

(05-28-2020 05:20 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 02:52 PM)fsquid Wrote:  The power 5 already make all the rules and keep the football money. Unsure how this benefits them.

According to JRsec estimate pay per team up to $120m.

You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

Well, that’s an excellent point. I didn’t actually consider where that $120m was coming from.
06-02-2020 11:38 AM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #62
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:49 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  The problem is that we look at it as fans. We think success should provide bigger opportunities.
The ones making the decision will not look at who has been most competitive. They will look at money and politics.

Exactly true. I can't see any scenario where P5 conferences and the AAC give up the CCG. They are huge money makers.

They might if the below was actually on the table.

(05-28-2020 05:20 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 02:52 PM)fsquid Wrote:  The power 5 already make all the rules and keep the football money. Unsure how this benefits them.

According to JRsec estimate pay per team up to $120m.

You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

But you're looking at it from the perspective of them not changing much when creating the new association. Since they are creating something new they have the freedom to rebuild it like they want. That could include dropping CCGs altogether and shifting more money into media deal for regular season and playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but the removal would open up more space for an expanded playoff.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:11 PM by Alanda.)
06-02-2020 11:59 AM
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bbqtiger Offline
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Post: #63
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-01-2020 04:13 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 03:18 PM)bbqtiger Wrote:  Stammers, I think there will be a major shift in conference alignment in the future. How far out, I won't even hazard a guess. The American is likely to involved very deeply. But I cannot see how it could include UCF, USF, and San Diego St. That would literally be coast to coast in one conference.

As far as a likely group of 78 schools/teams, it is hard to argue against your choices. But the alignment will not be as you have it, IMHO.

No doubt that it won't look like that, but there are going to have to be compromises. The advantage that the service academies will have is that other conferences will allow them to park their other sports there.

I would think that the Big Ten, $EC and PAC12 would be reluctant to compromise. San Diego State and Boise should go into the PAC12, but then the AAC would not be strong enough, would be down to 10 members and only 8 for basketball. We should be in the $EC, but there is no way that they would allow it.

In the beginning the athletic conferences were designed to be regional, for the most part (as you know). Thus, the NE had the Ivy League, MW had Big 9 (now Big 10) and Big 8, southeast had SEC (early Southern), East Seaboard the ACC, Texas had the SWC (+Arky), and the west had Pac 8.

And if that line of thinking were true today, it would line up as you note it SHOULD be. But you are right, it will not. SEC will never admit Memphis (I suspect). So a major shift has to come in order to allow the group of 80 - 90. SEC takes 2 from ACC, ACC takes 4 from American, B1G takes 2 from Big 12, Big 12 takes 4 from MWC and 4 from American, MWC and American remnants become irrelevant. And PAC takes 2 from MWC.

Maybe, but who really knows.

Just some thoughts, not a prediction.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:42 PM by bbqtiger.)
06-02-2020 12:40 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #64
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-02-2020 11:59 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:49 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 04:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  The problem is that we look at it as fans. We think success should provide bigger opportunities.
The ones making the decision will not look at who has been most competitive. They will look at money and politics.

Exactly true. I can't see any scenario where P5 conferences and the AAC give up the CCG. They are huge money makers.

They might if the below was actually on the table.

(05-28-2020 05:20 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 02:52 PM)fsquid Wrote:  The power 5 already make all the rules and keep the football money. Unsure how this benefits them.

According to JRsec estimate pay per team up to $120m.

You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

But you're looking at it from the perspective of them not changing much when creating the new association. Since they are creating something new they have the freedom to rebuild it like they want. That could include dropping CCGs altogether and shifting more money into media deal for regular season and playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but the removal would open up more space for an expanded playoff.

They have the freedom to do it, but the most powerful conferences are so resistant to change in so many areas; I think it will limit the amount of change.

As an example, if they go to 80 schools, the logical move would be for Memphis to end up in the $EC and Cincinnati to end up in the Big Ten. I would have to think that the odds of that are close to zero.

You are going to have conferences and schools pushing and pulling in every direction. It will be interesting to see who actually runs it and if they even have control over it.
06-02-2020 10:45 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #65
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-02-2020 10:45 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:59 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:49 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Exactly true. I can't see any scenario where P5 conferences and the AAC give up the CCG. They are huge money makers.

They might if the below was actually on the table.

(05-28-2020 05:20 PM)Alanda Wrote:  According to JRsec estimate pay per team up to $120m.

You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

But you're looking at it from the perspective of them not changing much when creating the new association. Since they are creating something new they have the freedom to rebuild it like they want. That could include dropping CCGs altogether and shifting more money into media deal for regular season and playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but the removal would open up more space for an expanded playoff.

They have the freedom to do it, but the most powerful conferences are so resistant to change in so many areas; I think it will limit the amount of change.

As an example, if they go to 80 schools, the logical move would be for Memphis to end up in the $EC and Cincinnati to end up in the Big Ten. I would have to think that the odds of that are close to zero.

You are going to have conferences and schools pushing and pulling in every direction. It will be interesting to see who actually runs it and if they even have control over it.

I agree. Where these extra 15 football teams go is a part of why I could see them reorganizing conferences quite heavily. With the pushing and pulling like you said, some schools will remain elitist and not want to be in the same conference with a Memphis or Cincinnati. Others may jump at the opportunity to get away from an Alabama or Ohio State to set themselves up for a better shot at a playoff bid since the money will still be guaranteed and larger than before in the new association.

My ideal scenario on the football side would be 8 conferences with 10 teams each if the goal is 80 teams. You would be looking at 7 conference games and 4-5 OOC games. The OOC games would only be against the other 7 conferences and could borrow from the NFL in how it's handled. With this you could have an 8-team playoff of all the conference winners unless they just really wanted to take the top 2 from each one to make it 16 teams. I would think they try to cap things at 15 games max like it is now so it would either be 11 regular season games with a 16-team playoff or 12 with an 8-team playoff. The latter would be most likely IMO due to potential OOC home game revenue for non-playoff teams.
06-03-2020 11:33 AM
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Keeper Offline
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Post: #66
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-03-2020 11:33 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 10:45 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:59 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 10:49 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  They might if the below was actually on the table.

You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

But you're looking at it from the perspective of them not changing much when creating the new association. Since they are creating something new they have the freedom to rebuild it like they want. That could include dropping CCGs altogether and shifting more money into media deal for regular season and playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but the removal would open up more space for an expanded playoff.

They have the freedom to do it, but the most powerful conferences are so resistant to change in so many areas; I think it will limit the amount of change.

As an example, if they go to 80 schools, the logical move would be for Memphis to end up in the $EC and Cincinnati to end up in the Big Ten. I would have to think that the odds of that are close to zero.

You are going to have conferences and schools pushing and pulling in every direction. It will be interesting to see who actually runs it and if they even have control over it.

I agree. Where these extra 15 football teams go is a part of why I could see them reorganizing conferences quite heavily. With the pushing and pulling like you said, some schools will remain elitist and not want to be in the same conference with a Memphis or Cincinnati. Others may jump at the opportunity to get away from an Alabama or Ohio State to set themselves up for a better shot at a playoff bid since the money will still be guaranteed and larger than before in the new association.

My ideal scenario on the football side would be 8 conferences with 10 teams each if the goal is 80 teams. You would be looking at 7 conference games and 4-5 OOC games. The OOC games would only be against the other 7 conferences and could borrow from the NFL in how it's handled. With this you could have an 8-team playoff of all the conference winners unless they just really wanted to take the top 2 from each one to make it 16 teams. I would think they try to cap things at 15 games max like it is now so it would either be 11 regular season games with a 16-team playoff or 12 with an 8-team playoff. The latter would be most likely IMO due to potential OOC home game revenue for non-playoff teams.

11 regular season games with each team not in the playoffs able to then schedule a home and away game after the end of the season before the 4 week playoff begins. Don't say who would watch those games, who watches all the pointless bowl games? You do.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2020 04:18 PM by Keeper.)
06-03-2020 04:16 PM
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Gibson Tiger Offline
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Post: #67
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-01-2020 04:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 06:39 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(05-30-2020 07:23 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(05-29-2020 08:53 PM)hk25 Wrote:  The regular season is 9 conference games with other 9 teams in division 2 out of conference games against teams in other power conference (home &homes) & “buy” with a local fcs school who would gladly take the big paychecks.

I don't think the NCAA would allow any member institutions to play non-member schools, so the FCS game would be gone.

NCAA doesn't prohibit members from playing NAIA schools now. Don't think that would happen. But I do think the NCAA would not count the non-NCAA games.

Can NCAA play NAIA in football? Maybe so, but I'm drawing a blank on that happening.

In basketball, the NCAA allows 2 "non-NCAA" games that do not count. These are sometimes exhibitions against schools who are not members of the NCAA.

But I'm not sure that applies to football, which is what we were talking about. In football you're allowed one FCS game, but I think it has to be an NCAA school...?

Yes the NCAA football teams can play NAIA teams.Bethel U of McKenzie(NAIA) opened with Lamar last year and are scheduled to open with Delta St this year.
06-05-2020 03:55 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #68
RE: End of the NCAA?
(06-03-2020 04:16 PM)Keeper Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 11:33 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 10:45 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:59 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  You would have to think that the CCG and bowls are a huge chunk of that.

But you're looking at it from the perspective of them not changing much when creating the new association. Since they are creating something new they have the freedom to rebuild it like they want. That could include dropping CCGs altogether and shifting more money into media deal for regular season and playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but the removal would open up more space for an expanded playoff.

They have the freedom to do it, but the most powerful conferences are so resistant to change in so many areas; I think it will limit the amount of change.

As an example, if they go to 80 schools, the logical move would be for Memphis to end up in the $EC and Cincinnati to end up in the Big Ten. I would have to think that the odds of that are close to zero.

You are going to have conferences and schools pushing and pulling in every direction. It will be interesting to see who actually runs it and if they even have control over it.

I agree. Where these extra 15 football teams go is a part of why I could see them reorganizing conferences quite heavily. With the pushing and pulling like you said, some schools will remain elitist and not want to be in the same conference with a Memphis or Cincinnati. Others may jump at the opportunity to get away from an Alabama or Ohio State to set themselves up for a better shot at a playoff bid since the money will still be guaranteed and larger than before in the new association.

My ideal scenario on the football side would be 8 conferences with 10 teams each if the goal is 80 teams. You would be looking at 7 conference games and 4-5 OOC games. The OOC games would only be against the other 7 conferences and could borrow from the NFL in how it's handled. With this you could have an 8-team playoff of all the conference winners unless they just really wanted to take the top 2 from each one to make it 16 teams. I would think they try to cap things at 15 games max like it is now so it would either be 11 regular season games with a 16-team playoff or 12 with an 8-team playoff. The latter would be most likely IMO due to potential OOC home game revenue for non-playoff teams.

11 regular season games with each team not in the playoffs able to then schedule a home and away game after the end of the season before the 4 week playoff begins. Don't say who would watch those games, who watches all the pointless bowl games? You do.

I can see that. With the pool of teams they would be from the postseason games may likely rate better than a lot of the bowl do now.
06-09-2020 10:30 AM
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